No climate change if world embraced nuclear

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Mikah
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25 Oct 2021, 1:46 am

First sensible thing they have said.

Many of the issues surrounding nuclear have been overblown (with the help of propaganda from the fossil fuel industry), in terms of deaths caused per MWh and the carbon footprint - nuclear wins on all counts, even versus windmills and solar panels. The nuclear waste issue is overblown too there really isn't that much of it to store.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Perhaps a mix of nuclear and renewables.


There is really no point in pursuing both. Do nuclear right and you don't need anything except a few hydro storage sites and that's with decades old technology. Modern nuclear designs can be ramped up and down fairly quickly.


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Pepe
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25 Oct 2021, 1:50 am

cyberdad wrote:
Environmental groups are ideologically opposed to nuclear energy because of the risk of environmental pollution and damage to the environment caused by incidents like 3 Mile island, Chernobyl and more recently the Fukashima accident in Japan.

In the past there's sufficient avenues for renewables to go down the path of nuclear. but now the urgency surrounding global warming and the lack of/pace of investment in renewables means if we want to get rid of coal powered stations more quickly then we may not have a choice.

It's a great pity that all the trillions invested in nuclear warheads could have been put into generating alternative power energy research.


-Chernobyl: Old USSR technology and poor safety standards.
-Fukashima: Near a fault line.
-Australia is probably the most stable continent on earth.
-Huge deserts to store nuclear wastes.
-People have spruiked that Australia imports other peoples waste and make a business out of it.
-Lucas Heights has been in operation for decades without a problem.
-New modular nuclear technology is not old nuclear technology.

"Keep up with the program." 8)

I'll be watching Chis Kenny's doco on nuclear energy tonight. :mrgreen:


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Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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Pepe
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25 Oct 2021, 1:56 am

cyberdad wrote:
Not just expensive, even if there is approval, the planning will take 5 years and then it takes between 7-10 years to build a properly functioning nuclear power plant.

Assuming there is a move to push for building replace coal with nuclear the time frame would be;
2021 - 2026 - advocacy
2026 - 2031 - planning/site approvals
2031 - 2041 - building

I'm afraid by the time there is any carbon sequestering after 2040 by the closure of coal fired power stations it will be too late.
https://www.ft.com/content/9a11b08c-4fb ... 853745bfce


Go to China and wag your finger in disapproval at them.
28% of world CO2 emissions.
If the left were serious, they would pressure China into not polluting the earth.
Sic Greta on them propper. :mrgreen:

Politics. :eew:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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25 Oct 2021, 2:00 am

Mikah wrote:
First sensible thing they have said.

Many of the issues surrounding nuclear have been overblown (with the help of propaganda from the fossil fuel industry), in terms of deaths caused per MWh and the carbon footprint - nuclear wins on all counts, even versus windmills and solar panels. The nuclear waste issue is overblown too there really isn't that much of it to store.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Perhaps a mix of nuclear and renewables.


There is really no point in pursuing both. Do nuclear right and you don't need anything except a few hydro storage sites and that's with decades old technology. Modern nuclear designs can be ramped up and down fairly quickly.


The left have made it a *political* issue.
Ideology is more important than practicle solutions. 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


1986
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25 Oct 2021, 2:01 am

I saw the title of this thread, and the black humour enthusiast inside me thought that "yes, a nuclear winter would certainly cool down the Earth".

Pepe had something much less violent in mind. I guess I'm the one who just wants to watch the world burn. :skull:



Matrix Glitch
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25 Oct 2021, 6:42 am

I remember giving a little speech in school advocating nuclear power back in the 70s.



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25 Oct 2021, 7:52 am

Mikah wrote:
There is really no point in pursuing both. Do nuclear right and you don't need anything except a few hydro storage sites and that's with decades old technology. Modern nuclear designs can be ramped up and down fairly quickly.


Wouldn't options always be a good idea? Reliance on a single technology seems shortsighted? Wouldn't we then be at the mercy of global uranium prices, much like we are now on oil prices?

You seem to know something about this. Can you tell me why, in the UK, whenever we start building new, modern nuclear plants, it always seems to take decades - if it ever completes - with costs that spiral out of control?

We're also told that nuclear power stations are risky because they are targets for terrorist attacks. This doesn't seem to faze countries like France that rely heavily on nuclear. But is it a real risk? It's never happened so far as I know but could it?



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25 Oct 2021, 3:10 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
Mikah wrote:
There is really no point in pursuing both. Do nuclear right and you don't need anything except a few hydro storage sites and that's with decades old technology. Modern nuclear designs can be ramped up and down fairly quickly.


Wouldn't options always be a good idea? Reliance on a single technology seems shortsighted? Wouldn't we then be at the mercy of global uranium prices, much like we are now on oil prices?

You seem to know something about this. Can you tell me why, in the UK, whenever we start building new, modern nuclear plants, it always seems to take decades - if it ever completes - with costs that spiral out of control?

We're also told that nuclear power stations are risky because they are targets for terrorist attacks. This doesn't seem to faze countries like France that rely heavily on nuclear. But is it a real risk? It's never happened so far as I know but could it?


That is why renewable energy sources vary.
When the wind turbines have no wind, we can fall back onto solar.
When the sun doesn't shine, we can fall back onto wind generation.
When there is no wind or sunshine, we are *ucked. <cheeky> :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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25 Oct 2021, 3:15 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
I remember giving a little speech in school advocating nuclear power back in the 70s.


You fool! <joke> :mrgreen:

I'm surprised you survived left-wing outrage! 8O
But back then, the left-wing movement was much gentler. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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25 Oct 2021, 3:18 pm

1986 wrote:
I saw the title of this thread, and the black humour enthusiast inside me thought that "yes, a nuclear winter would certainly cool down the Earth".

Pepe had something much less violent in mind. I guess I'm the one who just wants to watch the world burn. :skull:


Yes, that is one option.
Probably not a good one, however. :scratch:

It would also overcome the overpopulation problem.
Scratch that.
We have covid now to get rid of the old deadwood. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Mikah
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25 Oct 2021, 3:19 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
Wouldn't options always be a good idea? Reliance on a single technology seems shortsighted?


We can't rely on renewables anyway, we "rely" on smoky black diesel and gas driven turbines to act as backup generators to allow us to integrate gimmicky solar and wind into our grids.

DuckHairback wrote:
Wouldn't we then be at the mercy of global uranium prices, much like we are now on oil prices?


Most think there is more than enough fuel to last the entire world a good few centuries, and if breeder reactors come to fruition, we need not worry at all.

DuckHairback wrote:
You seem to know something about this. Can you tell me why, in the UK, whenever we start building new, modern nuclear plants, it always seems to take decades - if it ever completes - with costs that spiral out of control?


They are complicated and expensive to build, but as always the UK government finds ways to make it worse. There's probably a thread's worth of complaints about their incompetence but I would suggest they are a little too reliant on the private sector for ideological reasons, that and they hate shelling out cash for nuclear, because like most good things TM it's expensive and it's not a vote winner - so we have to invite the Chinese, the French, everyone and their mum to invest in the nuclear plants and because investors hate risk, they require future promises of revenue and energy prices and endless investor-pleasing renegotiation...

What we really need is a grand, nuclear-focused national strategy that isn't afraid to nationalise the whole lot and can survive individual governments.

DuckHairback wrote:
We're also told that nuclear power stations are risky because they are targets for terrorist attacks. This doesn't seem to faze countries like France that rely heavily on nuclear. But is it a real risk? It's never happened so far as I know but could it?


I think that's getting into what-if-a-comet-hit-it territory. It's possible sure, but I think it is unlikely. To turn a nuclear plant into a disaster that spread lethal radiation everywhere would require some major explosives. If mass casualties is the plan, its probably easier to just put all those bombs in a populated area. The lethality of radioactive material release is likely overblown itself too.

There's also concern that radioactive material could be stolen by terrorists to make a dirty bomb - maybe, but it would be much easier to loot a few hospitals.


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beyond all towers strong and high,
beyond all mountains steep,
above all shadows rides the Sun
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I will not say the Day is done,
nor bid the Stars farewell.


funeralxempire
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25 Oct 2021, 3:21 pm

Mikah wrote:
There's also concern that radioactive material could be stolen by terrorists to make a dirty bomb - maybe, but it would be much easier to loot a few hospitals.


Remember the story of the kid David Hahn, who tried to build a nuclear reactor using material cannibalized from smoke detectors?


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Pepe
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25 Oct 2021, 3:28 pm

Mikah wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Wouldn't options always be a good idea? Reliance on a single technology seems shortsighted?


We can't rely on renewables anyway, we "rely" on smoky black diesel and gas driven turbines to act as backup generators to allow us to integrate gimmicky solar and wind into our grids.


I hear Boris is looking into expanding the coal power industry, or is he simply reopening some?

Mikah wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
We're also told that nuclear power stations are risky because they are targets for terrorist attacks. This doesn't seem to faze countries like France that rely heavily on nuclear. But is it a real risk? It's never happened so far as I know but could it?


I think that's getting into what-if-a-comet-hit-it territory.


I was going to say the same. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


naturalplastic
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25 Oct 2021, 3:49 pm

Fifty years of tree hugging had little effect. The one week when Fukishima happened is what turned the powers at be the world over overnight en masse against nuclear. Or it did for at least for a decade or so. Now theyre giving nuclear a second look.



Mikah
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25 Oct 2021, 4:05 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mikah wrote:
There's also concern that radioactive material could be stolen by terrorists to make a dirty bomb - maybe, but it would be much easier to loot a few hospitals.


Remember the story of the kid David Hahn, who tried to build a nuclear reactor using material cannibalized from smoke detectors?


I didn't. I just looked him up, quite an amusing story if you ignore the rest of his life.

Pepe wrote:
I hear Boris is looking into expanding the coal power industry, or is he simply reopening some?


I've no idea, I'm not paying much attention to UK politics at the moment. It wouldn't surprise me to learn it was true - anyone who looks into this knows what a total waste of time and money solar panels and wind turbines are and have been. If we can't build a fleet of nuclear reactors fairly quickly - then reopening the coal mines is probably the only way to maintain a first world power grid in the near future - CCGT - the go-to back up for solar and wind is getting expensive to run with gas prices rising and gas in Europe is increasingly subject to international political storms.

If not coal, an alternative to that might be for the UK to re-embrace a pre-industrial mindset to energy. Hey kids wake up, it's 3:40am and the wind is blowing, let's march down to the windmill and grind some flour wash ourselves and our clothes and quickly cook a weeks worth of meals while we have hot water and an oven working...

Thank you Green a-holes, thank you so much.


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Though here at journey's end I lie
in darkness buried deep,
beyond all towers strong and high,
beyond all mountains steep,
above all shadows rides the Sun
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I will not say the Day is done,
nor bid the Stars farewell.


Pepe
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25 Oct 2021, 4:25 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Fifty years of tree hugging had little effect. The one week when Fukishima happened is what turned the powers at be the world over overnight en masse against nuclear. Or it did for at least for a decade or so. Now theyre giving nuclear a second look.


I have heard it reported that no one died because of the Fukushima radiation leak.
The one person connected with that tragedy, died of lung cancer, presumably not directly related.

Regarding Chernobyl, reports of 30,000 dying as a result of its meltdown are fake news.
Less than 100 people died as a result.

The human psyche has a penchant for exaggeration/catastrophization. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.