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How do you interpret what happened
Explanation 1 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Explanation 2 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Explanation 3 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Other 43%  43%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 7

QFT
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25 Oct 2021, 4:23 am

We are all familiar with the "I am busy" line, where the person saying it is not really busy rather they use it as an excuse. But this is NOT what this thread is about. This thread is about "YOU are busy" line. As in:

Me: How home you talk to everyone but me
The other person: It just looks like you are always busy with your school work, so I didn't want to disturb you

So the question is: when they say this, do they really mean this is the real reason, or is it just an excuse for not liking me?

I guess I have to give you background information. Yes I do go around with a bunch of books (typically so many books that I can barely fit them into my backpack) and yes I made it a habbit to study in caffees and restaurants (so the person whom I asked this question yesterday was a caffee server who chatted with everyone but me). And also, whenever a male tries to talk to me while I study, I usually get annoyed (precisely BECAUSE they are disracting me from my work). Its only females whom I want to talk to me. I don't usually initiate conversation with females either, EXCEPT FOR occasionally asking a question "why do you talk to everyone but me" (such as I did yesterday -- and thats when I got an answer that it is because I was really busy). However, I often stare at them waiting for them to talk to me. Often is not the same as always. Women don't seem to talk to me regardless of whether I stare or not.

Yesterday I wasn't staring-staring, but I gave them some glances every five minutes as I was studying. And also, when I just walked in, BEFORE I ever took out the books, I asked her whether she talked to a certain guy behind the door about me because I was worried whether I look weird, and that was when she switched from smiley to tense yet when I later asked her whether THAT was the reason she insisted that no its just the fact that I was with books. Here is how conversation went yesterday:

Me: Walking in

Two girls: Both appear really friendly and greet me with "hi how are you" and big smile on their faces

Me: I am fine how are you

Slightly older girl: goes behind the open door and talks to a guy in a quiet voice

Me: Were you talking about me? (the reason I asked this is because I was concerned whether I look like homeless; but I didn't actually say that is what I was concerned about; instead I simply asked whether she was talking about me and left it at that)

Slightly older girl (tensing up): No, I was asking him to buy certain thing at the store (I don't know whether I can believe her because I didn't see him going anywhere; after she was chatting up OTHER customers she kept coming to him and talking to him about them; so if I knew that ahead of time I wouldn't have reacted so badly since with those other customers it was a positive; but since I didn't know she did this with other customers I took it as a negative thats why I asked her that question).

Me: I am sorry I asked that question I was just insecure

Slightly older girl: (continues to sound tense despite my apologies) anyway would you like to sit down

Me: Okay (I feel disappointed she was tense and kinda cut me short)

Then I order food and it is all really short yet whenever *other* customers come in (both male and female) she is very chatting with them. To the point that she was talking about her business with one of them and then at the end of 10 minute conversation asked his name. WOW she talked for 10 minutes to someone whom she didn't know their name! Well she didn't know my name either, so why didn't she have with me that same 10 minute conversation? One of the people with whom she had 10 minute conversation was a woman, and then the other person with whom she had 10 minutes conversation was a man in his 50s. So his age didn't stop her from having lively conversation with him yet mine did.

Slightly younger girl: I haven't seen so many notes before

Me: This is not notes, this is homework I am grading.

Slightly younger girl: What are you teaching

Me: Calculus. I am a graduate student, but graduate students also teach. So I am teaching calculus and thats what I am grading.

Slightly younger girl walks away. So this is disappointing. I wish she could talk to me longer. I mean look at how they talked to those other people for 10 minutes, but she talked to me for less than a minute.

Then they had some more lively conversations with some other customers. And I kept giving them glances as I was frustrated as to why they talk to them and not to me. Then at some point the slightly older girl asked me that standard question waitresses are supposed to ask once in a while, and I took an opportunity to ask her a question:

Me: I have Asperger Syndrome, so due to my Asperger I make bad impression on people. Thats why when I first walked in I asked you whether you were talking about me cause I was worried I made bad impression. But AFTER I asked that question I realized AS AN AFTERTHOUGHT, that what REALLY created bad impression is that question that I asked. So I shouldn't have asked that. I only asked it because I was insecure

Slightly older waitress: You are fine, you did not make bad impression

Me: But I notice you talk to everyone but me, thats why I thought I made bad impression.

Slightly older waitress: Its only because you are busy. Look at all those papers.

Me: Well, I still feel it was rude of me to ask that. I mean, if it was the other way around and I was talking quietly to someone and someone else were to ask me what I am talking about, I wouldn't like it. So I am sorry I put you in that uncomfortable situation.

Slightly older waitress: That is no problem, its totally fine. So what class are you taking?

Me: Thats not the class I am taking thats the class I am teaching. I am grading those papers

Slightly older waitress: What class is this?

Me: Calculus. Its a third semester calculus.

Slightly older waitress: Thats impressive. I always found calculus really difficult

Me: Actually for me calculus has always been easy. The problem is not that its difficult but the fact that there are like 50 different problems. If I were to design the homework, I would have never given them so many problem. But the thing is that the professor is the one who designed it and assigned all those homework, and now I have to grade all that

Slightly older waitress: So you don't have a say over this only the professor does

Me: Yes

Slightly older waitress: Good luck (walks away)

So this whole conversation lasted for only like 2 minutes, as compared to those other conversations she had with other people that lasted like 10 minutes each. So that was still frustrating that she didn't talk for any longer than that.

Then she again talked to other customers, but not nearly as much as she did with previous ones so it wasn't as frustrating. But still a bit more than to me plus I still remembered those first customers too with whom she talked more. So I was still frustrated. She also talked quite a bit with one of the waiters that arrived at a later time but wasn't there before (I was grading for a few hours). I noticed she asked him what he goes to school for, so that means she doesn't know him that well. So why did she talk to him for like 10 to 20 minutes if she doesn't know him well yet she didn't talk to me?

Then, when I was cashing out, I had the following conversation with her

Me: So is it correct to assume that the reason most people don't talk to me is that I am always studying

Older waitress: Yes! You are always busy, busy, busy. So I didn't want to disturb you

Me: But I can't help the fact that I am behind. So what am I supposed to do in order not to be isolated?

Older waitress: You are not isolated: you were here for many hours (See how she re-interpretted the word "isolated". She acted as if being in the same room as other people is good enough, while in my case I want people to actually TALK to me. Now, she should have known better than anyone how important actually talking is: look at how much SHE talks. So she misinterpretted ME as if I am antisocial so she assumed that MY standards for social interactions are much lowers. Well, if thats how she thought, why didn't she question her assumption when she saw me clearly being upset about it? Or was she just trying to "play dumb" in order to avoid having to DO anything about it? And, besides, when I am talking about isolation I am talking about other people's attitude towards me. The fact that I was there for few hours has nothing to do with other people's attitude UNLESS we are talking about extreme situations such as people kicking people out of caffees and stuff)

Me: What I meant by isolated is that other people don't talk to me

Slightly older waitress: But like I said you were busy

Me: But there are others that are busy too, so how do they get to talk to people

Slightly older waitress: I tried to talk to you several times but you were busy (Again, what exactly is she referring to by "trying to talk several times"? Yes I remember her asking me about calculus, but that was ONCE, not SEVERAL times. The only thing that was SEVERAL times is her asking the standard question that all waitresses are supposed to ask every half an hour? But how would said "standard question" amount to her "trying to talk to me"? Does anyone ever answer that question with more than one word? In any case, that is not anywhere close to this lively 15 minute conversations she had with those other people)

Me: I am sorry I am just frustrated in general that people don't talk to me, not just you (paying my bills and leaving)

In any case, which of the following explanations would you give:

Explanation 1: My being with the books suggested to her that I didn't want her to talk to me. My asking her "why didn't you talk to me" did not imply in her mind that I wanted her to talk. Instead, she just interpretted it to mean as my being defensive for some other reason.

Explanation 2: My being with books suggested that I didn't want her to talk to me. *But* when I asked her why didn't she talk, she *then* understood that yes I wanted her to talk to me. *But* she was also able to guess that I probably wouldn't have wanted her to talk to me if she was a guy (again, books). This made her think that I wanted to talk to her just to get into her pants. Thats why she didn't engage.

Explanation 3: If she were to like me, she would have talked to me, books or not. In fact, I remember women from the past who actually *used* books as a *way* of initiating a conversation (such as "it looks like you are studying really hard, what are you studying?") In her case, she didn't want to talk to me (probably because I asked her at the beginning "are you talking to that guy about me" which kinda put her off) and then she used books as an excuse.

But in any case, what about all the other people, other than her? As most of you know, I was obsessing for a long time why don't women ever start a conversation with me. I was always blaming my poor social skills for this. But do you think that its not *just* social skills but *also* the fact that I am always studying? If so, what about all the other hard working students? How do they make female friends and/or girlfriends?

I guess one way I could answer my question is by remembering various scenarios where students were studying together. In this case, they actually bonded over the fact that they were in the same time crunch over the same class. Me personally, I prefer to do homework by myself rather than in groups. And it would feel weird to go to a study group *just* to trick people to talk to me.

But, again, do they *really* have to work on the same class as me in order to be able to bond over it? I mean, like I said, I remember instances from the past where a woman at caffeteria (who has nothing to do with any of the math or physics I was studying) was trying to ask me what I am working so hard on, and acted impressed. But then again, I was in my early 20-s back then. So could it be that the REAL reason is basically that nobody likes me due to my age? If I am in my early 20-s, then books are the excuses to chat me up, if I am 41 then books are the excuses to leave me alone.



Fireblossom
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25 Oct 2021, 9:41 am

I'd say explanation 1, but I could be wrong. *shrug*

Quote:
Me: How home you talk to everyone but me
The other person: It just looks like you are always busy with your school work, so I didn't want to disturb you

So the question is: when they say this, do they really mean this is the real reason, or is it just an excuse for not liking me?


I don't think this is a yes or no -kind of question; I think there are both people who use it as an excuse not to talk to you (for one reason or the other) and those who genuinely think you're busy and don't want to bother you.

Quote:
And also, whenever a male tries to talk to me while I study, I usually get annoyed (precisely BECAUSE they are disracting me from my work).


The women in those places don't know that you wouldn't mind them talking to you, so if they see you clearly being annoyed with guys who try to talk to you, assuming that you don't want to be bothered is only natural. And if they did know you want only women to talk to you, then that would likely make most women to not want to talk to you.

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However, I often stare at them waiting for them to talk to me. Often is not the same as always. Women don't seem to talk to me regardless of whether I stare or not.


Free tip: don't stare. It's not polite, and could land you on the list of people to be wary of.

Quote:
Yesterday I wasn't staring-staring, but I gave them some glances every five minutes as I was studying.


Sounds a bit clumsy, but better than staring.

Quote:
Slightly older girl: goes behind the open door and talks to a guy in a quiet voice

Me: Were you talking about me? (the reason I asked this is because I was concerned whether I look like homeless; but I didn't actually say that is what I was concerned about; instead I simply asked whether she was talking about me and left it at that)

Slightly older girl (tensing up): No, I was asking him to buy certain thing at the store (I don't know whether I can believe her because I didn't see him going anywhere; after she was chatting up OTHER customers she kept coming to him and talking to him about them; so if I knew that ahead of time I wouldn't have reacted so badly since with those other customers it was a positive; but since I didn't know she did this with other customers I took it as a negative thats why I asked her that question).

Me: I am sorry I asked that question I was just insecure

Slightly older girl: (continues to sound tense despite my apologies) anyway would you like to sit down

Me: Okay (I feel disappointed she was tense and kinda cut me short)


Could've gone better, but could've also gone a lot worse. By asking if they were talking about you you had already messed up, because that kind of thing among strangers in a situation like that can often lead to conflict. That in mind, it's no wonder the girl got tense and wanted to cut things short. That said, it's good that you apologized and, in that situation, explaining that you were insecure was probably a good move, too.

I also hope you don't get offended, but as someone who has read a lot of your conversations with others in the past, I was expecting this conversation to continue with you insisting on something or the other, but instead you apologized, so either you have better social skills than I thought you did, or you've been improving. Which ever the case, it's a good thing regardless.

Quote:
Then I order food and it is all really short yet whenever *other* customers come in (both male and female) she is very chatting with them. To the point that she was talking about her business with one of them and then at the end of 10 minute conversation asked his name. WOW she talked for 10 minutes to someone whom she didn't know their name! Well she didn't know my name either, so why didn't she have with me that same 10 minute conversation? One of the people with whom she had 10 minute conversation was a woman, and then the other person with whom she had 10 minutes conversation was a man in his 50s. So his age didn't stop her from having lively conversation with him yet mine did.


Was she the woman you talked about above? The one that tensed when you asked if they were talking about you and all? If so, then it might be that she didn't want to chat with you because that had made her uncomfortable. It's also possible that she didn't want to bother you since you looked busy with all your notes. Or it could be a combination of both.

Quote:
Slightly younger girl: I haven't seen so many notes before

Me: This is not notes, this is homework I am grading.

Slightly younger girl: What are you teaching

Me: Calculus. I am a graduate student, but graduate students also teach. So I am teaching calculus and thats what I am grading.

Slightly younger girl walks away. So this is disappointing. I wish she could talk to me longer. I mean look at how they talked to those other people for 10 minutes, but she talked to me for less than a minute.


I feel like this one's on you. You and the girl weren't really having a proper conversation; you were just answering her questions. Usually, when someone just answers the other's questions without asking anything themselves or starting a conversation about something else after answering the question, it's seen as a sign that they aren't interested in talking and are only answering the questions to be polite. Or at least, that's how I've learned it to be. Those other people probably asked questions of their own from her or brought up other topics.

Quote:
Then they had some more lively conversations with some other customers. And I kept giving them glances as I was frustrated as to why they talk to them and not to me. Then at some point the slightly older girl asked me that standard question waitresses are supposed to ask once in a while, and I took an opportunity to ask her a question:

Me: I have Asperger Syndrome, so due to my Asperger I make bad impression on people. Thats why when I first walked in I asked you whether you were talking about me cause I was worried I made bad impression. But AFTER I asked that question I realized AS AN AFTERTHOUGHT, that what REALLY created bad impression is that question that I asked. So I shouldn't have asked that. I only asked it because I was insecure

Slightly older waitress: You are fine, you did not make bad impression

Me: But I notice you talk to everyone but me, thats why I thought I made bad impression.

Slightly older waitress: Its only because you are busy. Look at all those papers.

Me: Well, I still feel it was rude of me to ask that. I mean, if it was the other way around and I was talking quietly to someone and someone else were to ask me what I am talking about, I wouldn't like it. So I am sorry I put you in that uncomfortable situation.

Slightly older waitress: That is no problem, its totally fine. So what class are you taking?

Me: Thats not the class I am taking thats the class I am teaching. I am grading those papers

Slightly older waitress: What class is this?

Me: Calculus. Its a third semester calculus.

Slightly older waitress: Thats impressive. I always found calculus really difficult

Me: Actually for me calculus has always been easy. The problem is not that its difficult but the fact that there are like 50 different problems. If I were to design the homework, I would have never given them so many problem. But the thing is that the professor is the one who designed it and assigned all those homework, and now I have to grade all that

Slightly older waitress: So you don't have a say over this only the professor does

Me: Yes

Slightly older waitress: Good luck (walks away)

So this whole conversation lasted for only like 2 minutes, as compared to those other conversations she had with other people that lasted like 10 minutes each. So that was still frustrating that she didn't talk for any longer than that.


You were probably making her uncomfortable by bringing up the uncomfortable situation. A better move would've been to start casual small talk. Also, here too you seem to just answer her questions, not make a conversation, like by asking her questions or making other kind of small talk. Plus, the way you talked about your professor kinda sounds like complaining. You could've left that out and, after saying calculus was easy for you, asked her if there was any type of math that she found easy or liked. This would've added her to the conversation instead of you just answering her questions.

Quote:
Then she again talked to other customers, but not nearly as much as she did with previous ones so it wasn't as frustrating. But still a bit more than to me plus I still remembered those first customers too with whom she talked more. So I was still frustrated. She also talked quite a bit with one of the waiters that arrived at a later time but wasn't there before (I was grading for a few hours). I noticed she asked him what he goes to school for, so that means she doesn't know him that well. So why did she talk to him for like 10 to 20 minutes if she doesn't know him well yet she didn't talk to me?


Again, you probably really did seem busy. Those other people probably were also better at holding a conversation than you; if you want other people to keep talking, don't just answer questions. Ask some of your own and/or bring up another topic to keep the conversation going.

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Older waitress: You are not isolated: you were here for many hours (See how she re-interpretted the word "isolated". She acted as if being in the same room as other people is good enough, while in my case I want people to actually TALK to me. Now, she should have known better than anyone how important actually talking is: look at how much SHE talks. So she misinterpretted ME as if I am antisocial so she assumed that MY standards for social interactions are much lowers. Well, if thats how she thought, why didn't she question her assumption when she saw me clearly being upset about it? Or was she just trying to "play dumb" in order to avoid having to DO anything about it? And, besides, when I am talking about isolation I am talking about other people's attitude towards me. The fact that I was there for few hours has nothing to do with other people's attitude UNLESS we are talking about extreme situations such as people kicking people out of caffees and stuff)


What? Now you're being unfair to that waitress; why should she be able to know what you want? Also, why should she do something about you feeling isolated? That's not part of her job, taking and giving you your order is. Stop blaming others all the time and take some responsibility of your life!

Quote:
Slightly older waitress: I tried to talk to you several times but you were busy (Again, what exactly is she referring to by "trying to talk several times"? Yes I remember her asking me about calculus, but that was ONCE, not SEVERAL times. The only thing that was SEVERAL times is her asking the standard question that all waitresses are supposed to ask every half an hour? But how would said "standard question" amount to her "trying to talk to me"? Does anyone ever answer that question with more than one word? In any case, that is not anywhere close to this lively 15 minute conversations she had with those other people)


What is that standard question? I don't think we have anything like that here and knowing it would probably make more sense of this situation.

Quote:
But in any case, what about all the other people, other than her? As most of you know, I was obsessing for a long time why don't women ever start a conversation with me. I was always blaming my poor social skills for this. But do you think that its not *just* social skills but *also* the fact that I am always studying? If so, what about all the other hard working students? How do they make female friends and/or girlfriends?


Very possible. As for the other hard working students, maybe they have good social skills that make up for their lack of time. Lots of busy people have busy social lives; my sister had more arranged dates with her friends and our relatives while working three different jobs than I did when I was unemployed! :lol:

Quote:
But, again, do they *really* have to work on the same class as me in order to be able to bond over it? I mean, like I said, I remember instances from the past where a woman at caffeteria (who has nothing to do with any of the math or physics I was studying) was trying to ask me what I am working so hard on, and acted impressed. But then again, I was in my early 20-s back then. So could it be that the REAL reason is basically that nobody likes me due to my age? If I am in my early 20-s, then books are the excuses to chat me up, if I am 41 then books are the excuses to leave me alone.


If the people around you were in their twenties when you were in your twenties and people around you now are also in their twenties, it makes sense that they talked to you more when you were their age. To most people, people their own age seem to be the easiest to approach. Plus, in their twenties people are usually more carefree about their studies and work than in their forties, so it's likely to feel easier to interrupt a hard working young man than a hard working middle aged man.



Fnord
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25 Oct 2021, 9:50 am

QFT wrote:
We are all familiar with the "I am busy" line, where the person saying it is not really busy rather they use it as an excuse. But this is NOT what this thread is about. This thread is about "YOU are busy" line. As in:

Me: How home you talk to everyone but me
The other person: It just looks like you are always busy with your school work, so I didn't want to disturb you

So the question is: when they say this, do they really mean this is the real reason, or is it just an excuse for not liking me? ...
The only person who can honestly and intelligently answer your question is the "other person" you referred to.

Everyone else's attempts to answer your question are mere speculation, and likely to be inaccurate.



QFT
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25 Oct 2021, 9:59 am

Quote:
Quote:
And also, whenever a male tries to talk to me while I study, I usually get annoyed (precisely BECAUSE they are disracting me from my work).


The women in those places don't know that you wouldn't mind them talking to you, so if they see you clearly being annoyed with guys who try to talk to you, assuming that you don't want to be bothered is only natural.


I didn't mean the guys at those places tried to talk to me. I meant the guys elsewhere. And no, they haven't seen how I interacted with guys elsewhere. What I meant to say is that IF one could predict my reaction to those guys, then women could have "guessed" that this is how I would have reacted to them. But they have no evidence either way.

The fact is that it is very rare for either men OR women to try and talk to me (although a lot more rare for women than for men). The most recent example of a guy trying to talk to me was the one whom I met two months ago when I just moved to the dorm and he told me he was diagnosed with mild psychosis. In any case, I was studying in the hallway few days ago, and he was walking down the hallway sucking on a candy really loudly. I totally thought that he was trying to make some kidn of joke, so I asked him what he was doing. But he said he just eats candy that way. In any case, he tried to talk to me about some kind of theater play he wanted me to be an actor at, and I wasn't particularly crazy about that play but, more importantly, I was busy. And no matter how many short answers I kept giving him he kept trying to talk. Then eventually I had to walk off into my room.

But these women have no idea about said interaction. It was at a different place (in a dorm rather than caffeteria), a different time (few days prior), they didn't know me before I arrived to said caffeteria, and presumably they don't know that guy either.

So all I was saying is:

--- Even though they don't know about said interaction with that guy, maybe they could have guessed I would have reacted that way to a hypothetical guy

--- And if they did make that guess maybe they would do the rest of the logic as I described

But of course, whether or not one could guess that I would have reacted to him that way is the other good question. I honestly don't know whether one could or not. Thats why I am asking y'all what you think.

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Slightly older waitress: I tried to talk to you several times but you were busy (Again, what exactly is she referring to by "trying to talk several times"? Yes I remember her asking me about calculus, but that was ONCE, not SEVERAL times. The only thing that was SEVERAL times is her asking the standard question that all waitresses are supposed to ask every half an hour? But how would said "standard question" amount to her "trying to talk to me"? Does anyone ever answer that question with more than one word? In any case, that is not anywhere close to this lively 15 minute conversations she had with those other people)



What is that standard question? I don't think we have anything like that here and knowing it would probably make more sense of this situation.


I am not sure whether I paraphrase it correctly, because the only way I could paraphrase it is "are you okay". Yet if someone in any other situation were to ask me "are you okay" I would probably get mad, but I don't get mad when waitresses ask me. Because in case of waitresses it "sort of" means "do you want to order something else".

Yet that won't be accurate either, because I don't take it as an invitation to order. I usually only order things when I walk in and thats it -- and I don't feel any guilt about it. So I guess maybe it is just checking up on me "just in case" -- even though she knows I "probably" won't order anything. At least thats how I usually interpret it.

In any case, I knew that her asking me that question had nothing to do with my behavior and was just a standard thing that waitresses ask.



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26 Oct 2021, 10:28 am

QFT wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
And also, whenever a male tries to talk to me while I study, I usually get annoyed (precisely BECAUSE they are disracting me from my work).


The women in those places don't know that you wouldn't mind them talking to you, so if they see you clearly being annoyed with guys who try to talk to you, assuming that you don't want to be bothered is only natural.


I didn't mean the guys at those places tried to talk to me. I meant the guys elsewhere. And no, they haven't seen how I interacted with guys elsewhere. What I meant to say is that IF one could predict my reaction to those guys, then women could have "guessed" that this is how I would have reacted to them. But they have no evidence either way.


My bad, I thought you meant that you've actually been annoyed with men trying to talk to you many times. Had this been the case, it would've made sense that the women who've been around you in those situations would assume that you didn't want to talk to them, either.

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The fact is that it is very rare for either men OR women to try and talk to me (although a lot more rare for women than for men).


In general, how religious or otherwise noticeably old fashioned are the circles you live in? I mean, if you live in an area with old fashioned gender roles or mostly move in circles that have very old fashioned gender roles, then it's no wonder if women talking to you is very rare. In many such communities, women talking to men who are not family is frowned upon, especially if there's no wing man. Though of course, in general if women approach strangers they tend to prefer choosing another woman, unless they're specifically looking for male company.

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I am not sure whether I paraphrase it correctly, because the only way I could paraphrase it is "are you okay". Yet if someone in any other situation were to ask me "are you okay" I would probably get mad, but I don't get mad when waitresses ask me. Because in case of waitresses it "sort of" means "do you want to order something else".

Yet that won't be accurate either, because I don't take it as an invitation to order. I usually only order things when I walk in and thats it -- and I don't feel any guilt about it. So I guess maybe it is just checking up on me "just in case" -- even though she knows I "probably" won't order anything. At least thats how I usually interpret it.

In any case, I knew that her asking me that question had nothing to do with my behavior and was just a standard thing that waitresses ask.


I see. Now that I think of it, we do have that here too, but just in a bit finer restaurants.

Hmm, I'm not sure what etiquette says about those situations, but since that waitress said that she talked to you several times, I would assume that it's socially acceptable to try to start a little small talk with the waitress in a situation like that. If that is the case, then it's not odd for her to assume that you would've started a conversation yourself if you wanted to talk.



QFT
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26 Oct 2021, 11:04 am

Fireblossom wrote:
In general, how religious or otherwise noticeably old fashioned are the circles you live in?


Well, when I go to church, I guess they are religious since thats what church is for. But the city overall is not religios. And neither is my university religious either. Yet I complain about women not talking to me in all three settings I just mentioned.

I guess one could argue that strangers don't usually talk to strangers, so the source of socialization are specific social groups rather than city at large; in this case yes choosing very conservative church as a social group would be a reason.

But even with churches not all of them are like that. In fact, out of the three or four churches I alternate between, there is ONE church where "men greet men and women greet women" while people at the other churches told me that this is the main reason they don't go to that one church. So, logically, this implies that in those other churches the male/female interaction is totally fine with. Yet they don't talk to me there either.

As a matter of fact, if you take just male/female factor, I would rather just go to that church where men greet men and women greet women. Because in this case I don't have to worry as to "why don't women talk to me", since they don't talk to other men either. But if I go to any church OTHER THAN that one, then I very much DO worry why don't women talk to me. Why? Because I see them talking to all the other men, just not me! So that means that religion isn't the factor.

But then again, if you ask me how often to I go to ANY of those churches, the answer is not that often at all. I usually have some school work to catch up to, so I just don't have time. So who knows maybe thats part of the reason why they don't tlak to me: since they established social bond with each other but not so much with me since I am not around that much? But then again, it goes both ways. If they DID talk to me, then I would have had more of a motivation to go to those churches.

But going back to what you said, since I just admitted that I don't go to church that often, and the rest of the town is not religious, it means that religion is even less relevant as to why they don't talk to me.

Or could it be just the fact that most people go "somewhere" (which can be church if they are religious or clubs when they are secular) while I just don't have time and always burried in books? So I expect people to talk to me down the streets or at cafes while most people meet people at church/clubs?

Well, one thing I read online is the "list of places to find dates" and it was surprising what they put in. Yes they put things like libraries and cafes, and they even put laundary place! And yes I do frequent libraries and cafes quite often: not to find dates but rather because thats how I like to study. So why didn't women talk to me in those places?

Or could it be that that advice is a bit far fetched and a lot more realistic way for me to socialize is to study in my office since that is where I have something real in common with my officemates?

But that would go back to the post I wrote two years ago (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=379696) I see on the door that the girl I talked about in that thread is still there. In addition to her, there is a guy who wasn't my officemate in the past, but I know him (the guy I mentioned in that thread is NOT him: he graduated between then and now, and thats why they moved in that other guy instead). He has bipolar and he kept trying to talk to me about various philosophy issues every time I ran onto him when I was way too busy to talk to him. So I am kinda worried that if I do go to the office he won't be willing to give me time to study and focus. But maybe he will. I mean now that he needs an office presumably he needs to study too.

In any case, the REAL reason I don't go to that office is that last year, due to COVID, the school was remote, so I was living with my mom at a different state. And since I didn't use my office key for a year, I lost it (thats what always tends to happen with things I don't use). Now, they can get me a replacement key, but I keep putting it off because I keep having studies to do. Like for example today: I don't feel up to ordering office key since I am behind on my grading and I want to grade lots of papers before my class this evening. Yet here I am tying a really long response. So I guess its an organization issue. If it is something I enjoy (like typing on WrongPlanet) I won't put it off, but if it is something technical like ordering an office key I would. So I guess I should just pick myself up and do it?

But like I said I am not sure that being in the office would really help me. Particularly since the female officemate already dislikes me, and the male officemate isn't the one I would want to be friends with. But maybe the combination of them two will work? As in I can interact with a male officemate and then the female officemate can start seeing me in a different light?

Fireblossom wrote:
Though of course, in general if women approach strangers they tend to prefer choosing another woman, unless they're specifically looking for male company.


I noticed that too, but can you explain WHY thats the case?

And still, even though they tend to prefer female company, they talk to other men just not me. In fact that waitress was chatty with at least 2 men and at least 2 women.

So I have two separate questions:

1) Why is it women tend to prefer to talk to women rather than men

2) Why is it they still talk to men, but not me.

Fireblossom wrote:
Quote:
I am not sure whether I paraphrase it correctly, because the only way I could paraphrase it is "are you okay". Yet if someone in any other situation were to ask me "are you okay" I would probably get mad, but I don't get mad when waitresses ask me. Because in case of waitresses it "sort of" means "do you want to order something else".

Yet that won't be accurate either, because I don't take it as an invitation to order. I usually only order things when I walk in and thats it -- and I don't feel any guilt about it. So I guess maybe it is just checking up on me "just in case" -- even though she knows I "probably" won't order anything. At least thats how I usually interpret it.

In any case, I knew that her asking me that question had nothing to do with my behavior and was just a standard thing that waitresses ask.


I see. Now that I think of it, we do have that here too, but just in a bit finer restaurants.

Hmm, I'm not sure what etiquette says about those situations, but since that waitress said that she talked to you several times, I would assume that it's socially acceptable to try to start a little small talk with the waitress in a situation like that. If that is the case, then it's not odd for her to assume that you would've started a conversation yourself if you wanted to talk.


Even if it is socially acceptable FOR ME to start conversation, fact remains: it would be me starting it rather than her. So the question is: why did she start conversation with everyone else, just not with me?



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27 Oct 2021, 2:35 pm

QFT wrote:
Well, one thing I read online is the "list of places to find dates" and it was surprising what they put in. Yes they put things like libraries and cafes, and they even put laundary place! And yes I do frequent libraries and cafes quite often: not to find dates but rather because thats how I like to study. So why didn't women talk to me in those places?


Just going to those places doesn't do it to anyone you know, except maybe to the extremely attractive. Body language is often a key thing; one must not seem hostile, threatening or uninterested. If you're interested in learning to control your body language, there are a lot of books on the matter and I'm sure you can find stuff from the internet, too. I'd recommend the books though since literally anyone can easily post advice to the internet and some of it may do more harm than good.

Also, it's always about them talking to you. You have told why you want them to talk to you and not the other way around, and I get it, but really, trying to do something about the matter instead of expecting others to do everything for you would be a good idea. Waiting for them to talk to you clearly isn't working for you, so I think it's about time to change the tactic.

Quote:
Why is it women tend to prefer to talk to women rather than men


Safety is one reason; statistically, another woman is less likely to be a threat than a man is. Then there's the thing that two women are statistically likelier to have something in common to talk about than a man and a woman, so if someone wants to chat with someone new, in the light of statistics, the chat is likelier to be more interesting if one chooses a person of their own gender.

Quote:
Why is it they still talk to men, but not me.


Do you still have issues with taking care of your personal hygiene? You have also mentioned that you have been mistaken for a homeless person due to the way you look if I remember correctly. Dirty and messy appearance like that is very likely to turn people away, both women and men alike.

If you've already fixed that, there're other things too: from what I gathered, most of the time that you're out and about, you're studying. It's not far-fetched to think that people think you're busy and don't want to bother you.
Then there's body language and expressions: maybe you look hostile or uninterested? For example, having your arms crossed is said to be a sign of hostility.
And the simple thing that when someone picks a person to talk to, the other option simply comes across as more appealing than you. Like, let's say you like both chocolate and caramel and someone offers you them, but let's you only pick one, which do you pick? The one that seems more appealing at the moment, that's what. It's the same with people; when one wants to talk to someone, they pick the person that seems the most appealing for one reason or the other. BTW, one of the ways to make yourself the likelier choice is to not be dirty or messy. Normally I wouldn't keep repeating this, but since you have admitted to having problems with those things, I think it's a good idea to point out the good sides of good hygiene.

Quote:
So the question is: why did she start conversation with everyone else, just not with me?


Well, she herself DID say that she thought you were busy, so I think the likeliest reason is that she really DID think you were busy.



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28 Oct 2021, 3:29 am

In your last response you FINALLY said the exact things I was suspecting all along. So FINALLY we are talking about the same thing. In particular, what you said is

a) Men are more prone to violence in general and so women who don't know me are likely to be more wary of me
b) People are wary of me because of poor hygine
c) My body language puts people off
d) I am just less appealing to talk to than most people

and those are exact things I was insinuating all along. Perhaps I didn't spell them out because I assumed that everyone knows what I was referring to. So if you didn't, then that was where we miscommunicated. But on my end of the line I *perceived* our conversation to go like this:

Me: I am really upset about a, b, c and d

You: It has nothing to do with a, b, c or d. Its just the fact that you don't start conversation yourself (or something else OUTSIDE of a,b,c,d)

Me: No, I still think its a, b, c and d

Okay finally you admitted thats what it is. So now you see why I don't want to start conversation myself? Because doing so won't fix a, b, c and d. Those four things would still be there and people will just respond to me to be polite. But the whole point is that I don't want a, b, c and d to be there on the first place.

a) I do NOT want to be suspected as someone prone to violence if I know FOR A FACT I am not violent

b) I do NOT want to be equated as homeless because I know for a fact I am not homeless

c) I do NOT want people to mistake my body language as if I am hostile if thats not the message I want to communicate

d) I want to actually be appealing to talk to.

So to use your candy example, if I like caramel less than chocolate, but someone persistently offers me caramel then I will eat caramel, but that doesn't change the fact that I like it less than chocolate. So if my goal is to actually make someone LIKE caramel better than chocolate, then offering them to eat caramel is not going to accomplish that goal. Yes, they will eat it, but they will still like it less. Well, in my case I actually want to be LIKED as opposed to simply talk. Thats why initiating conversation is not going to accoplish that goal.

Now, to answer your hygine quesiton, as I mentioend earlier I started taking shower regularly FOR A WHILE. But as of now I fell back on my old habits because, once again, I am not taking shower every day. Now, nobody told me nowdays that I smell. They did, however, tell me that in the past. So I guess I could assume that since in the past not taking shower made me smell and right now, once again, I don't take shower, then there is a good chance that I smell again and people are just too polite to tell me this. Or the other possibility is maybe I don't smell because I still take shower once in few days just not every day or perhaps I change clothes more. It can go both ways.

But here is a big question. Suppose I stick to taking showers and suppose I learn not to fold my hands. Fact remains: I threw out the best years of my life because I didn't do that before. So I wish I could talk to younger women just to re-live the years of my life that I threw away. You see, if I were taking showers in the past, then I would have talked to women in their 20-s back when I was in the 20-s, then we would have aged together and now they would have been 40 like me, but this would have been fine since we already lived through our 20s together and have common memories and stuff like taht. But because I didn't take shower in the past, I didn't make any connection with people in their 20s back when I was in the 20s. Thats why I wish I could do that now, yet I can't because they can't look past my age.

I also feel like I am not being regarded as fully human. You mentioned men are prone to violence (which I am NOT). Yet women naturally assume that I am. And the fact that women are likely to talk to other women more than men that kinda shows they don't see men as fully human. And the fact that they do talk to men "sometimes" but not me, shows that they see me as even less of a human than other men. And it hurts.

As far as your other reason as to why women are more likely to talk to other women rather than men, you mentioned common interests. So I would like to ask you which ones? If its sewing then they are right: I am not interested in sewing. But if it is other things then who knows maybe I am interested in those other things. One specific kind of female conversation that I wish I had was the kind where they offer each other emotional support. Lets say they are both stressed working on the homework assignment and they are sort of there for each other. Every time I look at it I think to myself "I feel the same things they are feeling but they don't even know it; they assume I am some kind of robot since they won't offer me the kind of emotional support they offer each other".

By the way, remember that guy I mentioned who tried to talk to me when I was busy? Well, one thing he kept trying to get me to do is to play a role in his theater. Now, he wanted me to play one specific character, namely an evil doctor that takes blood. He thinks thats the role that fits me the best since he acts cold and emotionless. So maybe THATS WHY women don't provide emotinoal support to me, because I COME ACROSS as emotionless? Yet down inside I feel like "I feel the same things they are feeling why don't they see it". You see how frustrating it is, when I feel inside as if I am just like them, with the same feelings and frustrations, yet everyone else thinks I am cold emotionless robot?!



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28 Oct 2021, 4:06 am

Even reading this without seeing you I get the impression that you have a lot of work on your table and you look really busy.

You may have an abrupt manner on top of that which makes it seem like you have no time to talk. I have an abrupt manner myself and don't tend to have long conversations with people. I often wonder what others find to talk about.

A waitress (and me) can't make much of a conversation around calculus. They tried their best, but you had no common ground to connect over. With the other customers I'll bet they were discussing things they both found interesting.



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28 Oct 2021, 5:12 am

hurtloam wrote:
You may have an abrupt manner on top of that which makes it seem like you have no time to talk. I have an abrupt manner myself and don't tend to have long conversations with people.


That might be onto something. Can you describe your version of abruptness? That way I can see whether or not we are thinking of the same things.

In my case the way I am abrupt is that when I want to go from Point A to Point B, I dont usually tolerate interruption. I mentioned in one of the earlier posts how I get annoyed when its a male who interrupts me. But now I remember examples when I had similar responess when it was a female.

For example, 2 years ago, I was going to stand in line to get iced tea (I was really thirsty) and some girl said hello to me. I really didn't want to respond to her because I wanted to get iced tea first, so I ignored her. Then she commented to the older woman how I ignored her. I still didn't pay attention to her and got my iced tea. And only after I got it, as an afterthought, I decided to come talk to her, but this time she was the one who gave me short answer.

Or the other example was over 10 years ago. I used to study really late and I would go home past midnight and on my way home I would go to grocery store (that was open that late) and buy some food that I would quickly eat and then jump to bed. Well, the cashier at the grocery store kept trying to talk to me, but I would keep ignoring her because I wanted to jump to bed. Then there was one time when she said to her co-worker "I am in love with that guy" he said "whom" and she said "comes here never talks". And I was puzzled ever since whether she meant me. But I never had guts to ask.

In any case, more often than not, I have some kind of agenda (either to study, or to buy something, or whatever) and if someone tries to talk to me in the middle of my agenda, I am likely to ignore them. Now, if that person happens to be a female, I will still likely to ignore her the FIRST time. But then I would regret this, and desperately wait for her to start talking to me the SECOND time so that I can show her that I AM interested in talking to her after all. But the second time would never happen. But if one of those women whom I am ALREADY obsessing about were to talk to me, then yes, I would totally respond no matter what. I would give anything to respond in fact. But if some other woman comes along whom I am not obsessing over, then I am likely to ignore her too. As a matter of fact, when I was standing in line to get my iced tea, I was likely taking a break from typing on Wrong Planet how nobody talks to me (I don't remember if that was what I was doing but I can guess that it might have been, since thats what I am usually going to the library computers for) yet that didn't stop me from ignoring her.

Well I guess this is not entirely accurate either. Lets say I go to a Bible study and I am thinking "I hope women at the Bible study will talk to me". In this case I won't ignore them since htis is what I am lazer-focused on (well, except that none of them talk to me). But if I go somewhere where I don't expect them to talk to me, such as a line at the coffee shop, then I might ignore them.

This also goes both ways. The "opposite" example took place a couple of weeks ago. So there was a girl on campus who was campaigning against mandatory vaccination. I told her I agreed with her. And then in the middle of my conversation with her, her earing fell down so she had to look for it. But to me it was too inconvenient that I had to stop my monologue half sentence so I kept talking despite the fact that she wanted to look for her earing.

So if I put earing example together with iced tea example, then you see that the issue is not that I do want to talk or don't want to talk. Rather the issue is that I have trouble adjusting when whatever it was I was going to do gets interrupted.

The reason I brought all that up is that you mentioned abruptness and I thought it is one way in which I am abrupt: that I "have to get that iced tea" or I "have to make my way to my notebook" or what not.

The other way in which I am abrupt is when I do talk. For example someone in the Bible study said that I put people off by asking "direct questions".

So I guess I am abrupt in at least two ways:

a) Trying to stick to whatever I am doing and not letting others interrupt me

b) Asking direct questions when I do talk

Logically, "a" should be more relevant than "b" when it comes to people who never talked to me before. Because I never had a chance to ask them "direct questions". However, who knows, maybe somehow its "b". I remember some people were telling me that people don't talk to me because I am blunt, and I was like "when did I EVER have a chance to be blunt if nobody talked to me on the first place?" They never really answered that question other than reiterating that I am blunt. So how on earth do they know it?

Then of course my voice is naturally loud. So maybe its my tone of voice.

Now, the question is: is any of what I said fits into what you mean by abruptness? Or are you abrupt in a different way?

hurtloam wrote:
A waitress (and me) can't make much of a conversation around calculus.


But they don't have to talk ABOUT calculus. They can talk about ME doing math (without getting into math details). As a matter of fact, I heard the waitress asking her co-worker what he was going to school for. I don't remember his answer but, whatever it was, they had lively chat after that. And I doubt that chat was academic.



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28 Oct 2021, 7:44 am

Yeah, I see what you're saying. It's like your brain is in one gear and you're not ready to shift gears yet toll you've done the thing you set out to. NTs are a lot more fluid and adaptable and don't understand that. They think we are being rude/impolite and take it as being rebuffed.

I can manage to make conversation when I'm focussed on something else, but it will be brief. I need to be in the right mood. It's not so much that I'm focussed on something else, it's more that I can't think of anything to say. I e got better as I e got older, basically through practice.



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28 Oct 2021, 11:19 am

QFT wrote:
In your last response you FINALLY said the exact things I was suspecting all along. So FINALLY we are talking about the same thing. In particular, what you said is


Why all the yelling? I sincerely thought we were talking of the same subject, which from my understanding was if that woman really thought you were busy and if not then why didn't she talk to you plus why do women in similiar situations usually don't either. Was this not the topic?

Quote:
But on my end of the line I *perceived* our conversation to go like this:

Me: I am really upset about a, b, c and d

You: It has nothing to do with a, b, c or d. Its just the fact that you don't start conversation yourself (or something else OUTSIDE of a,b,c,d)

Me: No, I still think its a, b, c and d


Now I'm very confused; what are these a, b, c and d that you say I talked about? Can you single out the actual things instead of letters? Or are

Quote:
a) Men are more prone to violence in general and so women who don't know me are likely to be more wary of me
b) People are wary of me because of poor hygine
c) My body language puts people off
d) I am just less appealing to talk to than most people


the a, b, c and d you're talking about? If so, then you've misunderstood what I've been saying. I've been saying that those are possible reasons along side other things, such as you not starting a conversation, either.

Quote:
Okay finally you admitted thats what it is. So now you see why I don't want to start conversation myself? Because doing so won't fix a, b, c and d. Those four things would still be there and people will just respond to me to be polite


And like I already said, I get that, but it's clearly not working out for you, so you should change your tactic. Plus, even if they originally answer just to be polite, at some point as they learn more about you they might actually come to the conclusion that you're the type of person that is interesting to them and then start conversations with you themselves. Friendships, and relationships even less so, won't be carried to you on a silver platter; you need to put in effort to create them.

Quote:
a) I do NOT want to be suspected as someone prone to violence if I know FOR A FACT I am not violent


What you want is irrelevant for people who want to stay safe. And it's not like any of those women know you're not violent, just like they won't know that of any other stranger, either. It's better to be wary of everyone than to trust everyone and take the risk that one comes across someone who wasn't worth the trust.

Quote:
b) I do NOT want to be equated as homeless because I know for a fact I am not homeless


Again, others can't know that for a fact, especially if you look like a homeless person. If you want to lessen the amount of times you get mistaken for one, do something about it.

Quote:
c) I do NOT want people to mistake my body language as if I am hostile if thats not the message I want to communicate


No one does, but avoiding someone with hostile body language raises a person's chances of survival. That's just a fact. One can learn about body language, even us on the spectrum. You want to raise your chances of attracting people? Study, and I don't mean math.

Quote:
d) I want to actually be appealing to talk to.


Most do. To do that, see above.

Quote:
So to use your candy example, if I like caramel less than chocolate, but someone persistently offers me caramel then I will eat caramel, but that doesn't change the fact that I like it less than chocolate. So if my goal is to actually make someone LIKE caramel better than chocolate, then offering them to eat caramel is not going to accomplish that goal. Yes, they will eat it, but they will still like it less. Well, in my case I actually want to be LIKED as opposed to simply talk. Thats why initiating conversation is not going to accoplish that goal.


So, one could say you're caramel and the other people chocolate in your example? I get your point, but think of this: you don't know which people around you like caramel if you don't check. They may have never tried caramel (=have never talked to you) and think they don't like caramel, but once you go and offer them caramel (=go and talk to them), they might notice that they like it after all. Or not, but then you and them will know.

Quote:
Now, to answer your hygine quesiton, as I mentioend earlier I started taking shower regularly FOR A WHILE. But as of now I fell back on my old habits because, once again, I am not taking shower every day. Now, nobody told me nowdays that I smell. They did, however, tell me that in the past. So I guess I could assume that since in the past not taking shower made me smell and right now, once again, I don't take shower, then there is a good chance that I smell again and people are just too polite to tell me this. Or the other possibility is maybe I don't smell because I still take shower once in few days just not every day or perhaps I change clothes more. It can go both ways.


It's good that you're improving, but keep in mind that good hygiene is also about brushing teeth, having clean clothes etc. But yeah, since you've had trouble with these, they're likely to be part of the problem. Keep working on fixing this and keeping it fixed while working on other things.

Quote:
But here is a big question. Suppose I stick to taking showers and suppose I learn not to fold my hands. Fact remains: I threw out the best years of my life because I didn't do that before. So I wish I could talk to younger women just to re-live the years of my life that I threw away. You see, if I were taking showers in the past, then I would have talked to women in their 20-s back when I was in the 20-s, then we would have aged together and now they would have been 40 like me, but this would have been fine since we already lived through our 20s together and have common memories and stuff like taht. But because I didn't take shower in the past, I didn't make any connection with people in their 20s back when I was in the 20s. Thats why I wish I could do that now, yet I can't because they can't look past my age.


Many people have regrets. I too regret not doing some things in my teen years, but that's just life. If you keep mourning after the things you didn't do, you'll waste even more time. Don't waste away your 40s by worrying what you didn't do on your 20s.

Quote:
I also feel like I am not being regarded as fully human. You mentioned men are prone to violence (which I am NOT). Yet women naturally assume that I am. And the fact that women are likely to talk to other women more than men that kinda shows they don't see men as fully human. And the fact that they do talk to men "sometimes" but not me, shows that they see me as even less of a human than other men. And it hurts.


You're jumping to conclusions. First of all, I said that statistically men are likelier to harm women than other women, not that women assume that you are violent. And I have no idea how women rather talking to other women would mean they don't see men as fully human. Where did you pull that one from? Besides, you've said yourself that you'd rather talk to women than other men, so wouldn't that mean that, with whatever logic you used above, you see men as less human than women.

Quote:
As far as your other reason as to why women are more likely to talk to other women rather than men, you mentioned common interests. So I would like to ask you which ones? If its sewing then they are right: I am not interested in sewing.


People often assume that the one who looks like them the most in a group also is most like them. It's not necessarily true, but when they assume this, they're also likely to assume they'll have things to talk about with that person. Thus, women assuming they'll have common interests with other women.
But then again, it's also a fact that some things do have more fans among women than men, so for a woman who is very in to some of those things (examples of such things: make up, sewing like you said, romance novels, decorating, flower arranging... basically, the stereo typically female things) it is logical to talk to other women.

Quote:
One specific kind of female conversation that I wish I had was the kind where they offer each other emotional support. Lets say they are both stressed working on the homework assignment and they are sort of there for each other. Every time I look at it I think to myself "I feel the same things they are feeling but they don't even know it; they assume I am some kind of robot since they won't offer me the kind of emotional support they offer each other".


But why should they offer such support to you? What have you done to deserve it? These types of things, at least from what I've seen, happen between people who've first worked on the friendship between each other. Why would they give to a stranger for free something that they themselves have worked for?

Quote:
By the way, remember that guy I mentioned who tried to talk to me when I was busy? Well, one thing he kept trying to get me to do is to play a role in his theater. Now, he wanted me to play one specific character, namely an evil doctor that takes blood. He thinks thats the role that fits me the best since he acts cold and emotionless. So maybe THATS WHY women don't provide emotinoal support to me, because I COME ACROSS as emotionless? Yet down inside I feel like "I feel the same things they are feeling why don't they see it". You see how frustrating it is, when I feel inside as if I am just like them, with the same feelings and frustrations, yet everyone else thinks I am cold emotionless robot?!


Possible, but I think a bigger reason is that you've done nothing to deserve it. People usually offer emotional support to those who they've formed connections with, not random strangers. Support forums like this where emotional support is part of the idea are exceptions of course.



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28 Oct 2021, 11:45 am

This is way too much for me to follow, but I'm going to offer the following suggestions...

People won't generally respect your busy-ness if you are so accessible. They will judge your busy-ness by your reaction to their interruption. And if you don't convey emotion accurately (I don't) you may not give the impression you intend. If you seem unreceptive to interruption, whether that's your intent or not, they may use "didn't want to bother you" as an excuse to avoid an awkward encounter. And to be clear, this was an awkward encounter, whether you intended it or not. You disclosed way more than is comfortable for most people.

One way you can signal a willingness to be interrupted from your reading is to rest your arms on your books and papers. This signals that, at the moment, you aren't reading and won't be reading again until you uncover your work. If you make no such move, your reading remains available to you and your audience may assume you want to get back to it. Just try not to make it look like you're trying to hide what you're reading :) You could also pick up your coffee and continue holding it after you take a sip, or set it in front of you and continue to hold it, you can move the plate with your cookie in front of you, you can lean back and cross your legs, etc. Basically you have to signal your attention is more than a little bit diverted from your work. If all you do is look up, then you are signalling that you want to get back to work.



Fireblossom
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28 Oct 2021, 12:09 pm

TenMinutes wrote:
This is way too much for me to follow, but I'm going to offer the following suggestions...

People won't generally respect your busy-ness if you are so accessible. They will judge your busy-ness by your reaction to their interruption. And if you don't convey emotion accurately (I don't) you may not give the impression you intend. If you seem unreceptive to interruption, whether that's your intent or not, they may use "didn't want to bother you" as an excuse to avoid an awkward encounter. And to be clear, this was an awkward encounter, whether you intended it or not. You disclosed way more than is comfortable for most people.

One way you can signal a willingness to be interrupted from your reading is to rest your arms on your books and papers. This signals that, at the moment, you aren't reading and won't be reading again until you uncover your work. If you make no such move, your reading remains available to you and your audience may assume you want to get back to it. Just try not to make it look like you're trying to hide what you're reading :) You could also pick up your coffee and continue holding it after you take a sip, or set it in front of you and continue to hold it, you can move the plate with your cookie in front of you, you can lean back and cross your legs, etc. Basically you have to signal your attention is more than a little bit diverted from your work. If all you do is look up, then you are signalling that you want to get back to work.


Wow, you're good at this. 8O



QFT
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29 Oct 2021, 9:45 am

Fireblossom wrote:
Why all the yelling?


When I put things in caps I don't mean it as yelling, I meant it as an emphasis. I know a lot of people misunderstand this so I need to learn to use other things for emphasize besides this one. But for a record I wasn't mad at you. In fact I am glad you are trying to take time to explain other people's perspective.

In any case, I have a meeting with my thesis advisor in a couple of hours. I will get back to replying to the rest of what you wrote after that.



Fireblossom
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29 Oct 2021, 10:49 am

QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
Why all the yelling?


When I put things in caps I don't mean it as yelling, I meant it as an emphasis. I know a lot of people misunderstand this so I need to learn to use other things for emphasize besides this one. But for a record I wasn't mad at you. In fact I am glad you are trying to take time to explain other people's perspective.

In any case, I have a meeting with my thesis advisor in a couple of hours. I will get back to replying to the rest of what you wrote after that.


Oh okay. Usually, caps are known to be yelling. For emphasis, italics are commonly used. Would lessen misunderstandings.