The America Medical and Psychological Associations are woke

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This is pretty rich coming from you, who as previously mentioned, when you bother to cite sources, exclusively rely on left wing papers and tabloids, but I digress.

Cathy Young was also born Екатерина Юнг in the Soviet Union, and so is a bit of an expert on leftist totalitarian states and the ideologies that propel them, and so might be worth listening to on the subject.

Finally, I noticed that you cherry picked a handful of things to pull out of context to "critique" (poorly), which is seldom a sign of an honest and rigorous engagement with a work.



You're supporting my impression that you didn't read this in good faith here, as she critiqued wokeness throughout the essay, but I'll just have to work with what you gave me. For clarity's sake I'm going to quote your bolded quotes and non-bolded replies as I don't want to reformat this whole thing, so for anyone else reading, when I quote cyberdad, the words in bold are from the essay, while his responses that I'm responding to are in plain text.



And you're such an expert in these social problems that you can authoritatively state that her assessment is incorrect? Last I checked, you're a white male yourself, and we're talking about these issues primarily in the American context, so you're double removed, forced to rely on second hand accounts, and based on your reading habits, not credible ones. By your own previously stated rationale, you can't even critique Young on sexism, as she's a woman and you're not, unless you're applying that rule selectively.



More like accurately stating the situation on the ground, which again, you're in no position to contradict her in.



That's not exaggeration on her part, those exact phrases frequently appear in the utterances of woke commentators and scholars; I'm beginning to suspect you haven't actually read many of them. Also LOL to the idea that people on the progressive left are uniquely evidence based, clearly you haven't been paying attention to what they've been saying these last few years, if anything Young is underselling the degree of hysteria common to woke commentators.



Again, where have you been the last few years? This school of discourse is standard issue in many universities and progressive communities, I've experienced it myself both on and offline many, many times just living in a majority progressive city, and that's nothing compared to the situation in academia, and increasingly, corporate settings. Also, "where are you from?" is in no way comparable to asking a fat woman about her weight, they're on completely different planets.



I hate to keep saying this, but L O L again, stigmatizing white people is half of what this whole thing is about, and there are multiple successful lawsuits to prove it, I'll cite some if you insist (I'm trying to avoid cluttering this long response, and it's not like you cited anything anyway).



If you hadn't pulled that quote out of context, you would have had to include the part where she says:

What’s more, there is something uniquely pernicious about a concept of “privilege”—“white,” “male,” “straight,” or any other kind—that equates not being mistreated with unfair advantage. It subverts one of liberalism’s core principles: the existence of fundamental, inalienable human and civil rights.

Not exactly an honest representation of what she actually said, is it?



Now you're just lying, the vast majority of anti Asian violence has been committed by black people, an inconvenient fact that's been heavily documented over the past year or so. Do you know who is the most displaced by colorblind admissions policies in higher education? Whites, who lose out to, wait for it, Asians. The whole acronym BIPOC was specifically created to exclude Asians, because their success in this country undercuts the woke narrative of unremitting racism here, and screws up the quota systems they want to implement.



Effective because it's true, and the sort of thing someone who grew up in the Soviet Union is uniquely qualified to comment on.



Never seems to stop you, does it? More selective standards, not that I'm surprised.



Again, considering the source vs your marked lack of knowledge and experience in this area, coupled with my own personal experience and the vast number of firsthand accounts that have published, I think it's a perfectly fair statement.



Do you when you try similar ploys, with markedly less truth behind them? Again, I'll trust the Soviet Jew on this one, especially when her statement matches up with what I've been seeing.



Yet again, L O L, Cathy Young is not in competition with The New York Times (they may have even published her before, I'll have to check), and the "paper of record" is the last thing from cherry picking, that's the most mainstream liberal publication there is, not some obscure journal of grievance studies published on a campus somewhere. There are hundreds of even wackier pieces in Slate, Salon, Jezebel, Teen Vogue (!), and a dozen other mainstream left newspapers and magazines, she picked that one specifically because of where it was published. As to the evidence of anyone actually doing it, I've personally seen it many times on my own Facebook feed made up solely of people I actually know, but there are also many published accounts out there.



Yet again, when someone who grew up under Soviet communism makes the comparison, I tend to pay attention. She's also not making any comparisons to the moderate left, wokes are not moderate.



And? It's absolutely happening, and clearly you don't know what cancel culture actually means if you're trying to make that comparison.



Every single thing you said here was false, misleading, hypocritical, or a combination thereof; I feel dumber for having read it, and I hope not too many people here were exposed, there's already enough lies and misinformation floating around this place.

@Dox47

You asked me to read the link on more than one occasion and I did. I provided my response, No need to get personal Doxy (whatever happened to play the ball not the man).

I'll respond to these points as I don't have the time/energy to critique everything you posed (although I appreciate your time and effort in going through my post).

1. Cathy Young is a precise example of what I talked about in my previous post. That is, pseudo-intellectuals who rely on using imprecise, figurative and emotive language to undermine social activism, She us using the vehicle of woke/woketivism/woketivists to dismantle left wing progressive views by repeating the old trope that social activists (who she labels as woketivists) are dismantling the edifice/pillars of American freedoms. Her whole essay is a repackaged version of what's already been written or broadcast by other right wing intellectuals, politicians or podcasters,

2. Your response did answer one lingering question I had which was where did her anti-progressive views emerge, From her name I assumed she was drawn from the usual conservative christian mainstraim white American families where most of the republican party draw their support from. But her growing up in the Soviet Union makes perfect sense for her views (so thank you for that).

Does it ever occur to you why Americans from old communist states like Vietnam, Cuba or the Soviet Union are among the strongest anti-communists in your country. I know many people from these communities (my best friend who is Polish agree on many things but he despises left wing/progressive politics). I know why.

She and other people who came as refugees from communists states naturally are sensitive to anything that reminds them of the communist states their parents escaped from. In the US the democrat party symbolises what they are opposed to. Socialism (in reality the democrats are far from socialists).

So naturally the author carries a bias from childhood and now explains her use of language in the essay that is neither objective, rational or unbiased. She literally constructed the essay with the sole purpose of providing an intellectual platform for other "like minded" Americans to feed as justification to "call to arms" against what she visualises as reemergence of communism in controlling what can be spoken/said or published.

Her stance against left wing politics/causes are actually very familiar to me.

3. You accused me of cherry picking. For the same reason you claim you became dumber reading my post I was becoming (likewise) stupid reading Cathy Young's essay. I simply could not bring myself to read everything she wrote. Yes I agree she did use examples but....guess what! she was cherry picking in order to bolster her beliefs.

I could literally write a book critiqueing her essay and the examples she uses but I neither have the time or inclination to do so. That;s my prerogative. Take it or leave it.

I'd been mostly content to let this response sit, as it's so incoherent and lacking in substance that rebutting it felt counterproductive to me, but this part kept calling to me. Notice that Cathy Young never mentioned communism as an economic system, only the top down totalitarian social control that she experienced there, and the hollowness of your attack becomes apparent, you're tilting at windmills here. But in doing so, you also tell on yourself, as you mention that other people from communist countries have an instinctive aversion to your preferred politics, which you chalk up to a confused knee jerk anti communism, but is just as easily, if not more convincingly, explained by the fact that people who've experienced authoritarianism for themselves can see it in progressivism and call it out, which you notice but try to explain away. Many of these people will talk about socialist economics insofar as they don't work, but if you read them at any length, that's seldom the thing that really bothers them right now, it's the authoritarian movement on the political left that has them concerned, as they've seen it before and where it leads.

I am pretty sure if Cathy Young were around in the early 1960s she would be among those cautioning about civil rights for African Americans and the danger's to social cohesion

If she were around in the early 1980s she would be saying the same about gay rights destroying the fabric of American christian values and use AIDS as a bogeyman or danger to public health

She probably said the same about marriage equality

Today she is taking a stance about freedom of speech.

Smearing people with unsupportable accusations is a real sleazeball move that you make a lot. It's the kind of thing jackasses who don't know what they're talking about do to try and hide their ignorance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Young



You have time to write reams of gibberish, but don't care to perform even a cursory Google search to confirm the accuracy of what you're saying, as the truth might get in the way of your beliefs. This is how religious fanatics operate, starting from the position that they know they're right, and then trying to force the evidence to fit that conclusion, it's incredibly dumb and incredibly tiresome.

Cathy Young identifies herself as Libertarian-Conservative. Such people are historically anti-civil rights
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/07/ ... vil-rights

There are plenty more links that say the same thing so I am not alone in making this interpretation (as you are trying to insinuate - as usual playing the man not the ball)

The more I read about this philosophy of libertarianism, the more I understand why you are always take a adversarial position against civil rights activism and why you enthusiastically invoke "wokeness" whenever race, gender, sexuality is bought up.

This video generally contains my views about woke-ists. It is as much a cult as fundamental Christianity is, in my opinion.

I realise that my opinion is just my opinion, and anyone is free to disagree with it.

It is not a personal attack.

When you ask somebody about Woketivism they will each have a different opinion. That's because online right wing propaganda "superspreaders" were deliberately vague about what it means so that they could create ammunition to attack their natural enemies on the left side of politics + progressive movements + social activism.

Those who invented "cancel culture" pretend there is one homogenous "culture" when in reality there isn't.

just in-- ()