Should we judge history by the morals of today ?

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chris1989
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04 Nov 2021, 4:00 pm

The latest thing I heard on this topic was when a discovery museum in Scotland wanted to de-colonise its collection and to drop the term ''discovery'' because it was seen as an ''outdated'' term and over links with colonialism. The thing is I am all for the idea having to teach things about our past that maybe we weren't always talked about school and talk about the negative things as well as positive but I seem think its quite absurd that some people are looking through history and looking at just some very trivial links that maybe some of the most famous historical figures had links with something horrible going on during their times even those at the time who were abolitionists have come under attack because they were still complicit and therefore are not people to be proud of anymore except to be completely reviled. Its also a bit like how people today criticise Churchill because he was an imperialist complicit in the Bengal famine and that the British Empire under him killed more people than Hitler's Third Reich and that they seem to think there still those out there who still hold his world views in 2021 even though he was a man of his time and the world did not have all the same standards as we have today. It does feel like some people are just looking for something even just minor to be offended. I don't always agree with the views that people had in the past but it does feel some people are not willing to completely understand them and instead just want to ''cancel'' them.



funeralxempire
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04 Nov 2021, 4:04 pm

European museums should probably return all the looted goods stolen from other peoples.
It's probably fair to stop talking about conquering people as discovering them.

It's not even about viewing things through our current moral lens so much as it's about listening to perspectives beyond the colonial invaders perspectives.


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IsabellaLinton
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04 Nov 2021, 4:09 pm

Image

I believe in teaching it all -- the good, the bad, and the ugly.

No censorship.


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Edna3362
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05 Nov 2021, 3:57 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Image

I believe in teaching it all -- the good, the bad, and the ugly.

No censorship.

Good, bad, ugly, context, origin, multi POV -- and of course no censorships, no assumptions as much possible...



From where I came from, there is no history to be cancel, though everyone is welcome to grieve or celebrate.

Not even towards colonizers -- everyone in this present is welcome to live under the belief of systems of religions and morals instilled, and live accordingly with it in this relevant present -- even at their own risk. :lol:

There are no collective grudges, injustice through history is an individual choice.
Because people who did horrible things are already dead, and their descendants are not their ancestors.
Passing the grudge is meaningless.
So does honor. Though, honor is usually celebrated or debated.

Update is very welcome of course.
The world and it's countries are not discovered by Europeans -- it is already there.
And tons of scrutiny towards historical and whoever is dubbed as national heroes.

Though... It is filled with frustration towards lies and propaganda in education system and history. Probably because the histories here have a lot of gaps and holes...

People thought the lack of grudge makes one collectively naive. :lol:
No. Not naive. Misguided and misdirected through misinformation, programming and propaganda.

Perhaps that IS the consequence of destroying history even if the deed happened centuries ago.
Only difference is that in centuries ago, one's own history got deleted against their will in favor of the subjugated then-present.


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Fnord
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05 Nov 2021, 4:21 pm

When my wife's relatives expressed the urge to emigrate to America, they also requested that I tell them about American history.

So I told them that the Founding Fathers were mostly slave-owners; that even though our Constitution declares "All Men Are Created Equal", it was left up to the States to define the word "Men" (e.g., white, Protestant, male land-owners); that even though slavery was abolished in 1864, Jim Crow laws are still on the books; that women were not granted the right to vote until 1920, and that women's reproductive rights were granted at the whim of men; that people of color can still be arrested "on suspicion" with no criminal charges being brought against them; and that wealthy white people usually receive lesser sentences than people of color for committing the same crimes.

My wife's relatives were horrified, having been led to believe that America is the land of "Freedom and Justice for All".



Edna3362
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05 Nov 2021, 4:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
When my wife's relatives expressed the urge to emigrate to America, they also requested that I tell them about American history.

So I told them that the Founding Fathers were mostly slave-owners; that even though our Constitution declares "All Men Are Created Equal", it was left up to the States to define the word "Men" (e.g., white, Protestant, male land-owners); that even though slavery was abolished in 1864, Jim Crow laws are still on the books; that women were not granted the right to vote until 1920, and that women's reproductive rights were granted at the whim of men; that people of color can still be arrested "on suspicion" with no criminal charges being brought against them; and that wealthy white people usually receive lesser sentences than people of color for committing the same crimes.

My wife's relatives were horrified, having been led to believe that America is the land of "Freedom and Justice for All".

Growing up, I did not felt for the same holes of colonialism and consumerism like my peers.

Not because of my upbringing, as much as I wished it was the case.
Probably because I'm autistic and it directly affects how I'm socially and culturally conditioned.

And the idea of 'sosyal' (trendy) because it's not made locally utterly annoys me.
All I see was stuff is crap expensive, impractical and unnecessary.

The same can be said with my peers being intimidated around foreigner classmates.
The same can be said about the illusions of quality vs here, to them it's real but to me it's either a hype or nothing.

As for history... As a child, my reading comprehension was so poor, I seriously really do not get it except memorizing unnecessary dates and names and events.

Therefore there's also nothing for me to 'believe' in history -- never see any names as heroes who liberated/brought religion to save souls/whatever image. :lol:
Whether it was full of lies or not, it simply went over my head.

When I'm starting to learn reading comprehension as a teenager, it was the time when I got internet connection for the first time... :lol:
The possibilities were endless.


So when I've read US history -- cause I got online friends and I'm bored.
The atrocities didn't shocked me. I took it like just another data text.
The same can be said with the present issues, and my online friends abroad occasionally telling me bits of their daily lives confirms it more -- as opposed to the portrayals in media.

Because I never carried the same hype that the grass is greener around any country like my peers did. Like the rest of my family did.
Or maybe almost everyone I've known in real life.



So far...
Any historical stuff never shocks me. At all.
However I'd worry on behalf of others.

After all, the social foundations they inherited gave me headaches and did caused me some distress. :twisted:
May or may not be your usual aspie everyday social frustrations.


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