A conspiracy theory about Hans Asperger

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ASPartOfMe
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13 Nov 2021, 12:23 pm

Whale_Tuune wrote:
I just don't understand why we insist on calling it Asperger Syndrome. Most of the research was done by Lorna Wing in the 1980s. If we want to bring something like that category back into the fold, call it Wing's Syndrome or something. She was the one who did all the heavy lifting, and she wasn't a Nazi.

All Hans Asperger did was be a Nazi child murderer and lie to cover it all up. f**k that guy.

(To your theory-- to be honest, I doubt it. The study of history is full of sensationalism and misinformation, but my current understanding is that people with Autism may have been targeted by Hitler for being disabled or, on the higher end of the spectrum, for being "anti-social", but "Asperger's boys" were a few Autistic kids who liked science, who Asperger wanted to spare for that reason. The idea was that their technical skills would be useful for the Third Reich. But again, Asperger didn't invent Asperger's Syndrome. That was Lorna Wing.)

Asperger did not coin the term Asperger’s Syndrome and neither did Lorna Wing. She popularized the term and her lobbying was responsible for the term getting into the diagnostic manuals. It is believed that German physician Gerhard Bosch was the first author to use Aspergers Syndrome in the English language in 1970.

In 1971 a journal article was published discussing if Early Infantile Autism and Autistic Psychopathy were same thing. The terms “Asperger’s Syndrome” and “Kanner’s Syndrome” were used.
D.Arn Van Kreveken


There are many who think Autism should be named after Grunya Sukhareva a Soviet psychiatrist who published articles in the 1920s describing what would later be called Autism and Aspergers.

As for Hitler there has been a lot of speculation but I have yet to be convinced he had the whole range of traits needed.


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Whale_Tuune
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13 Nov 2021, 12:37 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Ettina wrote:
Technic1 wrote:
Hitler had Aspergers. They experimented on aspies to see how they work.


Hitler had excellent social skills. He's one of the most charismatic and persuasive speakers the world has ever seen, it's how he got the power he did. I doubt he was on the spectrum.


According to WP everyone's on the spectrum. Even Paris Hilton.


Seriously. What's with retrospectively diagnosing everyone and their dog nowadays?


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Joe90
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13 Nov 2021, 4:33 pm

Quote:
Seriously. What's with retrospectively diagnosing everyone and their dog nowadays?


Exactly. (I was being sarcastic about Paris Hilton).

I think a lot of Aspies like to diagnose Nazi's with autism. And every celebrity they can think of.

Why don't we just say that every human on the planet has autism, unless they're 100% perfect (which nobody is), and say that all the NT extroverted people are just disguised Aspies masking very well?

You're welcome.


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Whale_Tuune
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13 Nov 2021, 8:20 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Whale_Tuune wrote:
I just don't understand why we insist on calling it Asperger Syndrome. Most of the research was done by Lorna Wing in the 1980s. If we want to bring something like that category back into the fold, call it Wing's Syndrome or something. She was the one who did all the heavy lifting, and she wasn't a Nazi.

All Hans Asperger did was be a Nazi child murderer and lie to cover it all up. f**k that guy.

(To your theory-- to be honest, I doubt it. The study of history is full of sensationalism and misinformation, but my current understanding is that people with Autism may have been targeted by Hitler for being disabled or, on the higher end of the spectrum, for being "anti-social", but "Asperger's boys" were a few Autistic kids who liked science, who Asperger wanted to spare for that reason. The idea was that their technical skills would be useful for the Third Reich. But again, Asperger didn't invent Asperger's Syndrome. That was Lorna Wing.)

Asperger did not coin the term Asperger’s Syndrome and neither did Lorna Wing. She popularized the term and her lobbying was responsible for the term getting into the diagnostic manuals. It is believed that German physician Gerhard Bosch was the first author to use Aspergers Syndrome in the English language in 1970.

In 1971 a journal article was published discussing if Early Infantile Autism and Autistic Psychopathy were same thing. The terms “Asperger’s Syndrome” and “Kanner’s Syndrome” were used.
D.Arn Van Kreveken


There are many who think Autism should be named after Grunya Sukhareva a Soviet psychiatrist who published articles in the 1920s describing what would later be called Autism and Aspergers.

As for Hitler there has been a lot of speculation but I have yet to be convinced he had the whole range of traits needed.


Well, either way. We don't quite need it to be named after a Nazi, right?


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cbd
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14 Nov 2021, 7:08 pm

Ettina wrote:
Clearly you haven't read any of Asperger's work. He made the point that what he called "autistic psychopathy" (essentially "autistic personality disorder" in more modern terminology) came with talents and strengths, and there's a definite undertone of "don't kill these ones, they're useful". He was trying to save us, not get us killed.



Wow ..

Very interesting



ASPartOfMe
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14 Nov 2021, 9:21 pm

cbd wrote:
Ettina wrote:
Clearly you haven't read any of Asperger's work. He made the point that what he called "autistic psychopathy" (essentially "autistic personality disorder" in more modern terminology) came with talents and strengths, and there's a definite undertone of "don't kill these ones, they're useful". He was trying to save us, not get us killed.



Wow ..

Very interesting


Hans Asperger, National Socialism, and “race hygiene” in Nazi-era Vienna - Herwig Czech
Quote:
A key element in the established narrative of Asperger as a principled opponent of Nazi policies derives from his repeated appeals to treat troubled children with the utmost dedication to help them overcome their challenges. A number of Asperger’s publications indeed convey an attitude of sympathy towards his patients, and on several occasions, he pleaded for tolerance and attention towards them. One of the most significant passages in this regard is contained in his 1944 paper on autism:

We think that such individuals have their own place in the organism of the social community, which they fully occupy, some of them maybe in ways nobody else could. […] Such individuals show more than others what capacities for development and adaptation even abnormal personalities dispose of. Often, in the course of development, possibilities for social integration arise which one would not have expected before. […] This fact determines our attitude and our value judgment towards difficult individuals of this and other kinds and gives us the right and the obligation to stand up for them with the whole force of our personality

This is in line with his 1938 speech, in which he also expressed his determination to side with his patients:

But let me discuss this problem today not from the standpoint of the Volk as a totality—in this case one would have to primarily focus on the Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring—but from the standpoint of the abnormal children. How much can we accomplish for these children shall be the question

Again the question is whether this approach put Asperger at odds with the regime or even made him vulnerable to reprisals, which is a central claim in the narrative of his resistance to the Nazis. The evidence, however, does not support this. Indeed, the fact alone that Asperger’s statements continued to be published in journals controlled by Nazi loyalists shows that they were not perceived as critical of the regime. Furthermore, Asperger’s career advanced unhindered during this period. Repeatedly vetted for promotion, he received positive assessments regarding his political reliability, as discussed in the “Political trajectory after the Anschluss in 1938” section.

Most importantly, it is a misunderstanding that therapeutic support for “abnormal” children had no place in the Nazi state, determined as it was to exterminate mentally disabled individuals. Due to increasing labor shortages, it became a political and military imperative to rehabilitate as many potential workers as possible, even those considered of inferior hereditary quality. In the context of “euthanasia,” the extermination of “incurable” patients—after attempts to improve their condition had failed—coincided with an increased interest in “active therapy.” The dichotomy of murder and therapy is exemplified in the introduction of electroconvulsive therapy, which was promoted by “T4,” the organization responsible for the gassing of tens of thousands of patients, to reduce the residual group of “incurable” patients. In this light, Asperger’s pleas to spare no effort in educating and guiding “difficult” children were not necessarily a challenge to Nazi pedagogy and race hygiene; rather, this was easily compatible with the Nazi state’s aim to control, discipline, and organize children and youths deemed “worthy” of belonging to the Volksgemeinschaft (“people’s community”). This was stressed by Asperger himself, who repeatedly insisted on the productive role Heilpädagogik could play within the new Nazi order, including in his 1938 speech:

And if we help them [the abnormal children] with all our dedication, we also render the best service to our Volk; not only by avoiding that they burden the Volksgemeinschaft with their dissocial and criminal acts, but also by trying to ensure that they fulfill their duties as productive individuals in the living organism of the Volk

Indeed, even the most virulent Nazis among Asperger’s colleagues endorsed therapy for those seen as potential assets to the state. This includes Asperger’s mentor Franz Hamburger and also applies to Erwin Jekelius, a youth psychiatrist trained at Hamburger’s clinic, who in 1940 became the main organizer of the “T4” killing operation in Vienna. He made sure that local authorities and hospitals cooperated and that the operation ran smoothly. From June 1940 to the end of 1941, Jekelius directed the child killing facility Am Spiegelgrund, where hundreds of disabled children were murdered.


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Whale_Tuune
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15 Nov 2021, 10:09 am

I remember reading through a study on Asperger where we can see pictures of the crying children he sent to get murdered by the Nazi state. I'm aware that Asperger's phenotypes came from some boys he described who he was trying to save, but the man was complicit in the murder of other children who he didn't deem as useful.

"Let's save these ones because they have special talents" is not justice, "let's save these ones because they're human beings too" is. Can't help but wonder if the excessive focus on the supposed technical prowess and uber high genius IQs those of us who got the Asperger's diagnosis are stereotyped with has any basis in Asperger marketing his boys to the Nazis.


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kraftiekortie
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15 Nov 2021, 10:22 am

I wish Asperger didn't do the things he did. They were certainly heinous.

I don't believe he was a Nazi----but he certainly was complicit in the Nazis' actions against "defective" children.

For better or for worse, it's named Asperger's Syndrome for the same reason "classic" autism is sometimes called "Kanner-type autism"). Asperger was the first person to describe a group of children with what he called "autistic psychopathy." These formed the basis for research into Asperger's Syndrome--and, later, the diagnostic category of Asperger's Syndrome.

I wouldn't blame a person if they didn't want their condition to be named after Asperger. But it is sort of a moot point because the diagnosis is no longer extant in the DSM, and soon will no longer be extant in the ICD.