A progressives nuanced take on the “CRT” controversy

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cyberdad
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09 Nov 2021, 12:29 am

Pepe wrote:
[
Parents don't want political activists in skools brainwashing their kids.
They don't want CRT being used as a propaganda tool of the left. 8)


The problem is they can't distinguish between art/culture/history and propaganda. Parents butting into school curriculum is weird and scary.

There's a school in the south trying to ban this image on their school wall painted by famous artist Norman Rockwell

Image

When the mob start going after artwork you know they are some type of crazy cult



auntblabby
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09 Nov 2021, 12:31 am

or just racist as all-get-out.



Dox47
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09 Nov 2021, 1:40 am

It's interesting watching the smart liberals try to clue in the dumb ones that this is a loser of an issue and is going to cost them elections, and their gaslighting "real CRT is not being taught in schools" tactic is just making it worse (props to Chris Rufo for the political 4D chess on that one), while the dumb liberals keep bleating about 'muh racism', not realizing that they've beaten that weapon nearly to death already. You can see it happening in the mainstream media, on Twitter, on other political discussion boards (my favorite is r/stupidpol, where the clever Marxists hang out), I suspect it's a plot we're going to be seeing a lot in the coming days, as the mainstream liberal establishment catches up to where the heterodox liberals have been for years, that you can't win elections by calling everyone who doesn't vote for you bigots, it's not a winning strategy.

The other interesting thing is that calling someone a racist or a sexist still works on other liberals, but increasingly it doesn't work at all on conservatives, and of course new right people take it as a badge of honor, and I expect that to also creep into the mainstream, the shrug and the eyeroll when someone shrieks as a show stopper, though it might take a few years to fully happen.


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cyberdad
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09 Nov 2021, 3:04 am

Dox47 wrote:
The other interesting thing is that calling someone a racist or a sexist still works on other liberals, but increasingly it doesn't work at all on conservatives, and of course new right people take it as a badge of honor, and I expect that to also creep into the mainstream, the shrug and the eyeroll when someone shrieks as a show stopper, though it might take a few years to fully happen.


Reverse racism is the "new black" for dumb conservatives (pardon the pun). Smart conservatives don't have to say anything. They run things already.



Dox47
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09 Nov 2021, 3:09 am

cyberdad wrote:
Reverse racism


Reverse racism was a thing in the 90s, now people just say racism, which is correct.


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Pepe
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09 Nov 2021, 4:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
[
Parents don't want political activists in skools brainwashing their kids.
They don't want CRT being used as a propaganda tool of the left. 8)


The problem is they can't distinguish between art/culture/history and propaganda. Parents butting into school curriculum is weird and scary.

There's a school in the south trying to ban this image on their school wall painted by famous artist Norman Rockwell

Image

When the mob start going after artwork you know they are some type of crazy cult


You mean art like commemorative statues? :scratch: :mrgreen:



cyberdad
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09 Nov 2021, 4:40 am

Pepe wrote:
You mean art like commemorative statues? :scratch: :mrgreen:


You mean this?
Image
The painting was in a school and the parents wanted it taken down.



Pepe
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09 Nov 2021, 4:41 am

auntblabby wrote:
in texas it seems it is now acceptable for schools to deny the enormity of the holocaust and to say slavery was good for the slaves. there doesn't seem to be any significant blowback for those people down there.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... books-with
https://qz.com/1273998/for-10-years-stu ... e-unhappy/


You have misrepresented what was said in the first link.
There was no suggestion that anyone was denying the enormity of the holocaust.
The focus was on presenting different points of view and, presumably, letting individuals use their critical thinking skills to come to their own conclusions.
But once again, there is no mention of what these "alternative views" may be. 8)

My mental energy is low, so I will review the second link some other time. Maybe. ;)



Pepe
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09 Nov 2021, 4:48 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
You mean art like commemorative statues? :scratch: :mrgreen:


You mean this?
Image
The painting was in a school and the parents wanted it taken down.


I was thinking about something/k like this:

Image



ASPartOfMe
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09 Nov 2021, 4:58 am

Conservative and Right-Wing Cancel Cultureisis and always has been a problem as demonstrated in this 14 page as of this writing WP thread but the topic of this thread is the left.

'Stupid wokeness' a real problem for Dems
Behind a paywall

Quote:
Last week's GOP-friendly election results on Long Island and nationwide — particularly Republican Glenn Youngkin’s victory in the Virginia governor’s race — have been widely attributed to the perception that the Democrats are too far to the left on social issues. Some analysts blame right-wing demagoguery, others left-wing overreach. While all such interpretations should be approached with caution, particularly when it’s far too soon for a proper analysis of voter attitudes, Democrats would do well to heed the wake-up call.

The consensus among the liberal commentariat is that "critical race theory" is a racist dog-whistle — code for a backlash against education that honestly addresses the history of racial oppression in America and, more generally, against racial equality. Some have linked this backlash to the one against school integration in the 1960s. "This country simply loves white supremacy," tweeted journalist Jemele Hill in a sweeping generalization.

But we’re not in the 1960s. In Virginia, the pushback against progressivism in public schools was led by a diverse group of parents, some of whom are Asian American, Hispanic and Black. Youngkin’s running mate and the state’s next lieutenant governor is a Black woman, Winsome Sears, who grew up in the Bronx and made history as the first woman and first woman of color elected statewide. In an interview with the Virginia Mercury in August, Sears remarked that all of Black history should be taught, but "[i]f Critical Race Theory means that telling a child that once you emerge from the womb you are a racist and a colonizer … [t]hat's going to create morale problems for everybody."

"Critical race theory" in its strict sense — an academic analysis focused primarily on legal issues — may not be taught in public schools. But closely related "critical pedagogy," which encourages viewing everything through the lens of oppression and privilege, is very much a part of public education in progressive school districts. "Anti-racist" and "racial equity" education today often reflects the same principles. Elementary schools have assigned such texts as "Not My Idea," an illustrated children’s book in which "whiteness" is portrayed as literally a deal with the devil.

Yes, some of the pushback comes from people who don’t want their kids to be taught the history of slavery or Jim Crow. But not all the opposition should be lumped together.

It would be a mistake, of course, to blame the Democrats’ bad night entirely on the backlash against "woke" anti-racism

But what Democratic strategist James Carville has called "stupid wokeness" is a real problem for the Democrats — enough that moderate Republicans like Youngkin, who are smart enough to avoid being too closely linked to Donald Trump, can score victories even in "blue" areas. Given how wedded the GOP remains to Trumpism, that’s a problem for America, too.


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09 Nov 2021, 5:57 am

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
You mean art like commemorative statues? :scratch: :mrgreen:


You mean this?
Image
The painting was in a school and the parents wanted it taken down.


I was thinking about something/k like this:

Image


I've always supported any form of historic art. Even confederate statues or monuments to apartheid leaders, military dictators, authoritarian communist dictators, Nazis, slave owners etc etc

All of the above belong in a museum



auntblabby
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09 Nov 2021, 12:59 pm

THERE ARE NO "DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW" ON THE HOLOCAUST, IT HAPPENED, PERIOD. :roll:



Dox47
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09 Nov 2021, 6:53 pm

From today's WaPo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ce-theory/

Quote:
It has become a refrain on the left and its media echo-chamber following Republican Glenn Youngkin’s victory in the Virginia governor’s race: Critical race theory is not being taught in schools. PBS White House correspondent Yamiche Alcindor recently accused Republicans of winning by “lying about critical race theory.” Sen. Mark R. Warner (D-Va.) declared “there is not a school in Virginia that teaches critical race theory.” Those who say otherwise, we are told, are “dishonest,” hyping a “fake CRT threat,” promoting an “imaginary” issue to “manipulate low information people,” engaging in “race-baiting lies” and blowing a “racist dog whistle.”

This is demonstrably false. Virginia’s Loudoun County Public Schools, which were ground zero in the debate over the role of parents in their kids’ education, paid $314,000 for critical race theory coaching for its teachers from the Equity Collaborative — a consulting firm that turns critical race theory into practices for "building more equitable learning environments.” In its presentation “Introduction to Critical Race Theory” the Equity Collaborative instructs teachers that racism is “an inherent part of American civilization” and attacks “ideas of colorblindness, the neutrality of the law, incremental change, and equal opportunity for all” for maintaining “whites’ power and strongholds within society.” It also questions “the idea of meritocracy” which “allows the empowered … to feel ‘good’ and have a clear conscience” and concludes with a breakout session for teachers to discuss “How might you use CRT to identify and address systemic oppression in your school, district or organization?”

I’m a professor at a U.S. military academy. Here’s why I teach critical race theory.

One Loudoun country parent filed the public record request to find out what took place in these sessions and obtained a set of talking points used by the Equity Collaborative to train Virginia teachers. They were encouraged not to “profess color blindness,” but rather to admit their own “racist, sexist, heterosexist, or other detrimental attitudes, beliefs, behaviors, and feelings” and acknowledge that “addressing one’s Whiteness (e.g., white privilege) is crucial for effective teaching.”

It’s not just Loudoun County. In 2019, Virginia state superintendent of public instruction James F. Lane sent a memo to all school districts promoting critical race theory training materials, and declaring “CRT has proven an important analytic tool in the field of education, offering critical perspectives on race, and the causes, consequences and manifestations of race, racism, inequity, and the dynamics of power and privilege in schooling.” And as Manhattan Institute senior fellow Christopher Rufo points out, “Right now, on its website, the Virginia Department of Education recommends ‘Critical Race Theory in Education’ as a ‘best practice’ and derives its definitions of ‘racism,’ ‘white supremacy,’ and ‘education equity’ explicitly from ‘critical race theory.’”

This is true in other states as well. In New York City, school administrators were required to undergo training sessions where they learned that “objectivity” and “individualism” were elements of “white-supremacy culture.” In California, students as young as six are being taught CRT-inspired lessons in white privilege and structural racism.

Karen Attiah: Why books have become a battlefield in Texas

The left’s CRT denial is intellectually dishonest. Just because grade-school students are not studying academic treatises on critical race theory does not mean it is not being taught in schools. Most of these students are also not reading Karl Marx, but if they were being instructed by teachers trained in Marxist thought to see everything through the prism of class struggle, they would be learning Marxism. Well, today children are being instructed by teachers trained in CRT to see everything through the prism of race; to believe that the United States is a systemically racist country; and to believe that society is divided into two classes — oppressors and oppressed — and that which you are is determined by the color of your skin. That is critical race theory.

Democrats are gaslighting American parents — telling them not to believe what they can see with their own eyes. Before the pandemic this might have worked. Most parents didn’t know firsthand what their children were being taught. But during last year’s lockdowns that changed. Millions of parents were stuck working from home while their kids were attending school online — which allowed parents to see for the first time what their kids were learning in the classroom. Many did not like what they saw. Nor did they like being told that the promotion of CRT is a figment of their imaginations, when in Virginia, it is right on the Department of Education’s website for all to see. So, they rose up to demand change.

Yet even after their electoral shellacking last Tuesday, Democrats are doubling down on the strategy of denigrating parents for raising legitimate concerns about their children’s education. Sorry, parents know that critical race theory is a real problem — and if Democrats continue telling parents their concerns are imaginary, they will continue to pay a price at the polls.


The fact that WaPo ran this editorial, along with it's content, confirms what I've been saying, the smart liberals recognize that this is a problem for them politically, and are trying to right the ship and convince their nutty flank to lay off of this stuff and moderate their positions.


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Pepe
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09 Nov 2021, 6:59 pm

auntblabby wrote:
THERE ARE NO "DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW" ON THE HOLOCAUST, IT HAPPENED, PERIOD. :roll:


How many times do I have to say this?
You don't have to say the Holocaust didn't happen to believe there is more to the story.
Who is suggesting the Holocaust didn't happen?

We don't know what these alternative perspectives are all about.
No one defines what they mean by that.
You are making *assumptions*.
You are "boxing at shadows". :wink:



Pepe
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09 Nov 2021, 7:01 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
You mean art like commemorative statues? :scratch: :mrgreen:


You mean this?
Image
The painting was in a school and the parents wanted it taken down.


I was thinking about something/k like this:

Image


I've always supported any form of historic art. Even confederate statues or monuments to apartheid leaders, military dictators, authoritarian communist dictators, Nazis, slave owners etc etc

All of the above belong in a museum


Agreed. 8)



Ettina
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09 Nov 2021, 7:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
I agree. Too much wokeness being fed to kids too soon is bad, and divisive.

Graduate students and law students need to learn about lynching and red lining, and about the gory details of whatever they are studying (american history or anything else).

Grade school children do not need to learn about it just yet.

Keep it age appropriate for the grade level.

The question is IS too much wokeness being fed to kids in schools to soon? If so than the GOPers have a legit complaint.

If that is not the case...and CRT is only being taught in law school and in grad school (like it always was), and very little trickles down to grade school, or to middle school, or whatever then CRT is a false issue.

Not an expert in what they teach in schools these days. So I couldnt say to which degree either thing is true. Thats a real issue, or whether its just a scapegoat issue.


Racism affects the lives of grade schoolers, so it should be discussed with them.

Does that mean I want 6 year olds told gory details about slavery? No. But they should be taught that some people treat them differently from their classmates because they have messed-up beliefs about what people's skin color means about them as a person. The POC kids likely already know this - the white kids should know, too, so they can have empathy for their friends.

The bare bones basics of critical race theory are age appropriate for young children. It's OK to be any race, and you shouldn't treat people better or worse because of their race. However, some people they know might think certain races are better than others, and treat people unfairly as a result. And some basics of what they can do about it - such as sticking up for a friend being bullied.