Pity friendships: a different perspective

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QFT
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18 Nov 2021, 6:32 pm

When I google "pity friendships" I see that the general consensus is that one should say no to them. I agree. But here is a little bit extra that they haven't bothered to really talk about: an offer of pity friendship might be a *good* thing precisely *because* its the only chance you have to ever say no. The ability to say "no" is reassuring, even if it is a "no" to a pity friendship offer. Did anyone ever felt that way? In other words, have anyone ever felt *happy* you had a pity friendship offer, because of that unique opportunity of saying no?

I found a pity friend a couple of weeks ago. I hope she sticks around so that I can continue to shoot her down. It feels good.

There is a caveat though. Since I know that my supposed indifference is a big theater, I also know its a lie: apparently I do care since that theater is worth so many thoughts. What that means is that she has a power to do certain things to "trigger" me to "show my true colors". So I need to figure out ways of doing this so that it won't happen.

Case in point. Few days ago she asked me on facebook if I would like to come to a certain gathering and suggested she would walk with me. I decided not to respond at all and instead went to a caffee that she knows nothing about, without taking any devices she could contact me through. I enjoyed my stay at the caffee precisely because of what I just said (see here: viewtopic.php?t=401625 ). But when I came back from the cafee, I found she sent me 4 facebook messages that she erased. I kept asking her to tell me what they were, and she kept refusing, saying "it doesn't matter" and I kept asking if it doesn't matter why not tell me, yet she wouldn't. So that wasn't the outcome that I wanted. Instead of having her chase me and being the indifferent one, it ended up being me being the obsessive one and her acting indifferent.

Thankfully, she still asks me how is my day over facebook. So I still have a chance to do a better job of rejecting whatever little olive branch I am given. If I were to ignore her question right away then I would basically tell her that I am hurt by her not answering the question about the messages she deletted. So it would be her who "won". So I answered her questions for a day. That way it no longer appears that way. But now I decided to do something else. I simply stopped logging into my facebook. That way it doesn't matter what she does there. I won't be there to be "triggered" by it. Now of course if I change my facebook habbits "all" because of her, then she isn't as "unimportant" as I am trying to pretend she is. But I guess I have nothing to lose on that front. I don't have anyone on facebook who actually talks to me. Everything I ever post on facebook gets ignored. So might as well stop logging in there. It is not a healthy habbit anyway.

I will log back in there a week or two later though, to see what she wrote (hey, I already admitted to y'all that I care more than I am trying to pretend to). But hopefully I would be less likely to be triggered by whatever she wrote if its been several days since she wrote it. Since I would know it wouldn't be just "her" who erased her messages or whatever, but it would also be "me" who would have had ignored her for however long it would be. So at least we would be even.



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19 Nov 2021, 6:37 am

If she sends you those responses and then deletes them, it sounds like she cares more than she says she does.


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QFT
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19 Nov 2021, 7:10 am

smudge wrote:
If she sends you those responses and then deletes them, it sounds like she cares more than she says she does.


Cared in what way? Cared about building connection with me, or cared to exclude me? To me it seems the latter. Why go through all these lengths to "not" say certain things to me I clearly wish she said?

The other thing I noticed in your quote is the phrase "... than she says she does". In particular, the word "says". She didn't *say* its a "pity friendship". Would anyone actually say those things? That would be rude. The phrase "pity friendship" is what I came up with in order to describe her *actions*, not words. I met her in Bible studies. The Bible studies started at the end of August. The first time she talked to me was two weeks ago. And the context of her talking to me was my throwing a bunch of temper tantrums over the fact that she hasn't. In other words, she talked to me out of pity (the pity that I created by going on and on how I don't have any friends). So that makes it a pity friendship. Did she use the word "pity"? No. But its logical, given this whole context. If she doesn't talk to me for 2 months, and then starts talking to me daily after I freak out about not having friends: isn't it the very definition of pity?

What happened was that they arranged get together event at a restaurant where they were socializing (they had Bible studies every week, but those restaurant events were once in few months). Me and her were the two people that came early and she kept rambling off stuff that I couldn't really follow cause she spoke too fast. But the "topic" was others being late; I don't know what is so funny about it though but she kept laughing. So since I couldn't hear most of the words she says, catch her humor, or respond, I felt excluded even when it was just the two of us. Then when someone else finally came, she was super excited about some university both her mom and that person went to. I knew nothing about that university, so I felt excluded even more, particularly since she asked me to go up front and get my order first, apparently so she could talk to him. Then after I got my order and after I got to the table, I saw that it wasn't just her who seemed to ignore me but everyone else at the table too. So her and that guy were super excited about that university. Then there was some other guy at the table who kept talking about his backpacking trip and everyone excitedly listened to him. Yet none of those 7 people at the table ever asked what I did that week or how I was doing. I lost my temper at some point and screamed how everyone who goes to that university are "fucken ret*d". Then I felt bad about it because I felt like I ruined whatever little chance I had about others talking to me. This caused me to scream more and more rude stuff, then get even more agitated in trying to "undo" it, etc. For example, an organizer (who came late and didn't know what happened) asked me what I was teaching, I said "none of your fucken business", and then I repeatedly said I teach calculus in order to "make up for it", but nobody would respond anything to my saying I teach calculus so I got even more angry. That was just one example though I made a big scene.

In any case, back to the topic of this thread. What got that girl talking to me was the following. After that meeting was over, and when organizer was driving me home, I was complaining to him about the "bad impression" that I made and how I don't know how to "undo" it. He suggested I contact those people individually and try to apologize tot them. He also said that "perhaps" he will organize another meeting and then hopefully I connect with them better during that other meeting -- but he can't promise anything. When I contacted them, both that girl and one other person apologized for making me feel excluded and said they will try to do more to make me feel as a part of the group. That girl, further, said she is on autism spectrum herself and in fact she used to be low functioning. She didn't explain how she switch from low functioning to high functioning other than "miracle from God". She said she had speech therapy though but she didn't say what else she had besides that. As far as that gathering that the organizer said he will "perhaps make but he can't promise anything", he actually arranged it a week later. However, when he invited me to that second gathering he told me that it would probably be a weekly occurrence. So thats why I decided that I can go ahead and skip it without regrets since I can always go back later if/when I ever get done with my theater. And yes, that is when she suggested she would walk with me towards that gathering but I ran off to a cafe instead. You see in the past they used to have such gatherings maybe once in few months. Thats why I was freaking out about "bad impression" I made at the first gathering since I thought I would have to wait few months to make it better. But when later he told me he will start doing it once a week then I felt like its no big deal if I skip it. And I actually felt good about skipping it for the same reason as I felt good about ignoring that girl. Both of those things are types of pity friendships.

There is a very good reason to suspect that he decided to start arranging those gatherings on a weekly basis "because of me". You see, this Bible study thing was going on for few years (even though this girl joined just this year). While actual Bible studies were on a weekly basis all along, they only ever had those restaurant gatherings once in several months basically to introduce new people. But then after the gathering two weeks ago didn't go well, and I was freaking out how "I can't make up, what to do, what to do, what to do", he said they might have another such gathering at some point (meaning in few weeks perhaps) but I kept freaking out how that would be too long for me to wait. And then he said he will think about making it sooner but he can't promise anything. In any case, *if* he actually did this because of me, that would be great. It feels great to have wasted his efforts when I didn't even show up, because for once it would make me feel important. I don't think it is "just" because of me though, I am not "that" important (or I wouldn't have been complaining). But at least there is a good chance I was a factor. His role as an organizer is relatively new, and he seemed to be sympathetic towards my complaining (unlike the main organizer) so yes it makes sense that the fact that he in particular made it weekly might have been motivated by trying to help me. Which makes me feel good about "not" coming to those meeings since, like I said in OP: shooting down pity friendships feels good.

TLDR: She joined the weekly Bible studies two months before that first restaurant gathering, and she never talked to me. Then AFTER the first gathering, when I told her I felt hurt by people not talking to me, she said people, including herself, should do more to make me feel part of the group. And then after that she started talking to me. So, logically, she talked to me out of pity. So that makes it a pity friendship.

SIDE NOTE: In the correspondence about her autism she said "I am glad I found a boyfriend who is understanding". But I never saw her bringing her boyfriend to any of those Bible studies (and keep in mind: Bible studies were on a weekly basis all along, it is the gathering at the restaurant that were a lot more rare). In fact one of the things I found annoying is how she seemed to like the organizer of that group back at the Bible study and then, during that first gathering, she seemed to like that guy who went to that university. So that would logically make one suspect she made up her boyfriend to say she is not available. But actually on her facebook page it "does" say she is in a relationship with someone, and it says she's been in a relationship with that person since August (which coincides with the time she started coming to Bible studies). Do people ever put "fake" statuses on their facebook as a way of protecting themselves from unwanted attention?



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20 Nov 2021, 10:15 am

Well, their attention could be about pity or, considering your behavior, it could even be out of fear of you hurting someone if you don't get the attention you throw tantrums for. Anyway, if I was in your shoes (and honestly, even in my own shoes), I'd take even those "pity friendships." Your social skills are so bad that you really need the practice.



QFT
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20 Nov 2021, 10:37 am

Fireblossom wrote:
Well, their attention could be about pity or, considering your behavior, it could even be out of fear of you hurting someone if you don't get the attention you throw tantrums for. Anyway, if I was in your shoes (and honestly, even in my own shoes), I'd take even those "pity friendships." Your social skills are so bad that you really need the practice.


I guess I am not one of those people that like to do things "for practice".

I have a better idea. I am aboug to go to church just about now (as a Messianic my church is on Saturday). I usually didn't have time to go there due to studies but more recently I started going there a bit more often. While old members recognize me, new members obviously don't, so I have somewhat of a fresh start there. And no that church has nothing to do with Bible study: Bible study is at the university and that church has nothing to do with university. It also has all ages, so I will be able to interact with older folk (thus fit into my expected age role) without foresaking opportunity to interact with younger folk (which is what I prefer).

As far as university goes, that particular group was the only one for graduate students. Everything else is for undergraduates. So it is really said I ruined it with the only group that is semi-appropriate for my age. I do consider looking at some other student groups though other than this one. Nothing to lose anyway. I already tried one of them actually. Didn't like it, it was too liberal. But I have a couple of others in mind that I tried, but I couldn't seem to locate their meetings. And meanwhile I still have some "pity attention" from the graduate group that I intend to keep ingoring in order to boost my self esteem.



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17 Dec 2021, 2:02 pm

After I kept ignoring her messages, she eventually stopped sending them. Although it took a few weeks for her to stop.

But now here are some afterthoughts that I have, that has to do with comparing this situation to others.

Basically when I complain that I have no friends, I might face one of those outcomes -- not that this list is by any means exclusive:

Outcome 1: People assume I don't know what I am asking for

Example a: They will tell me I am dwelling on details. In other words, they don't realize that I face any real hurt to begin with. They think I am just involved in "intellectual exercize" of overanalyzing

Example b: They tell me "hey, I am your friend, I say hi to you don't I". So now they are assuming I don't know what friendship is. They think I believe that friendship is just saying the word hi.

Outcome 2: People offer a platitude

Example a: They say it doesn't matter what people think anyway. I know a lot of people of WP would agree with this, but not me. To me it very much *does* matter. Besides, regardless of whether it matters (which it does), I still need emotional connection, too. And they seem not to realize it.

Example b: They tell me to focus on school. Yes I find my studies important. But they don't replace my need to socialize. Basically I wouldn't feel fulfilled in life if EITHER my studies suck OR my socialization suck. I need both. And thats what they don't seem to get.

Example c: They tell me to focus on serving the Lord. Yes I am a Christian, but this doesn't change the fact that "serving the Lord" isn't anything tangible. Yes my faith is important because I don't want to go to hell after I die. But that doesn't change the fact that I want to enjoy the life here on earth too. And they know it because they enjoy THEIR life. If they claim that serving the Lord is all that matters, why don't they follow their own advice and abandon their social life?

Example d: They tell me that friendship is overrated. Some people on wrong planet might agree with this statement, but not me. And telling me to change my tastes just won't work. Its like telling me to start liking red apples. I don't like red apples and psyching myself up to like them won't work. Similarly I don't see any merrit in hypnotizing myself into thinking that I don't need friendship. I do. Thats just the fact.

Outcome 3: They offer "pity friendship". The example is the one described in this thread. Unlike the other situations, she actually tried to *do* something:

Example a: She offered to walk with me to their next meeting (I went to a different caffee, by myself, instead)

Example b: When I didn't come to the above meeting and then the next one after that, she told me they miss me (I didn't respond to that message, and continued not coming)

Example c: When she saw me on facebook one day she tried to video message (I didn't respond)

Example d: She kept repeatedly asking me how I was doing (I didn't respond)

Example e: She asked me how are my finals (I didn't respond)

Now, the ONLY reason I wasn't responsive is because it is a "pity friendship" in this case. If, however, I take any situation OTHER than this one, I would have totally responded. So the question is: Why didn't people in Outcomes 1 and 2 didn't do any of those things? Were they simply not realizing that this is what I was looking for? Like in "Outcome 1, Example a", did they not realize that my entire need to overanalyze would disappear if only they were to offer some emotional connection and make me feel cared for? Or people in "Outcome 1, Example b", did they not realize that I was not talking about "saying hi", I was talking about some of the more pro-active things like this girl offered?

Or do you think they knew perfectly well that this is what I was asking for, but they "played dumb" cause they didn't want to give it to me, while in case of this girl she felt compelled to give it to me because -- like Fireblossom said -- she was afraid I would hurt someone if she won't?



Last edited by QFT on 17 Dec 2021, 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cosine
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17 Dec 2021, 3:59 pm

a month to afterthoughts.

i just can't imagine myself choosing to have a pity friend despite no real friends in the past several years (not counting the dogs and computers). when i do have a real friend, it's someone i really care about and can talk about anything when it's just the two of us. maybe someone who would be a potential candidate as a pity friend could be a real friend for me. but it would be someone i'd care about even if they exit their pity phase.



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17 Dec 2021, 4:12 pm

cosine wrote:
a month to afterthoughts.

i just can't imagine myself choosing to have a pity friend despite no real friends in the past several years (not counting the dogs and computers). when i do have a real friend, it's someone i really care about and can talk about anything when it's just the two of us. maybe someone who would be a potential candidate as a pity friend could be a real friend for me. but it would be someone i'd care about even if they exit their pity phase.


I agree. If you re-read my previous email, my last question really applies to people *other than* the one that pities me. I am simply using the person that pities me as a point of comparison.

Outcomes 1 and 2 describe people that don't pity me. Outcome 3 is the person that does. Now, the people in Outcomes 1 and 2 offer me platitudes, which seems to suggest they "aren't smart enough" to think of something better. Yet the pity friend in Outcome 3 was, in fact, "smart enough" in this sense. Hence the question: do all those other people in Outcome 1 and 2 truly have a hard time reading what it is I need or are they just playing dumb or what?



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19 Dec 2021, 12:23 pm

I don't get it... you complain about people in examples 1 and 2 not doing anything for you, yet the girl in example 3 doing lots of things for you isn't good, either. What do you want to happen after you complain to someone about being lonely? What do you want them to do?



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19 Dec 2021, 12:34 pm

I don't make friends easily. I don't look to make friends. I find pity is disrespectful. OP comes off as a self-absorbed pompous over-analytical jerk. I'd sooner make enemies, than pretend to be somebodies friend, As you can probably tell from that last sentence :lol:


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19 Dec 2021, 12:50 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
I don't get it... you complain about people in examples 1 and 2 not doing anything for you, yet the girl in example 3 doing lots of things for you isn't good, either. What do you want to happen after you complain to someone about being lonely? What do you want them to do?


Read your own reply. You said yourself it is possible she does it because she thinks I would hurt someone if she doesn't. So why would I want to be viewed that way?

I want someone to do the things she does but for reasons *other than* the ones she has.



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19 Dec 2021, 12:53 pm

theprisoner wrote:
OP comes off as a self-absorbed pompous over-analytical jerk.


What am I being jerk for? You said you don't take pity friends, I said the same thing.



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19 Dec 2021, 12:54 pm

theprisoner wrote:
I don't make friends easily. I don't look to make friends. I find pity is disrespectful. OP comes off as a self-absorbed pompous over-analytical jerk. I'd sooner make enemies, than pretend to be somebodies friend, As you can probably tell from that last sentence :lol:


Hmm.

I didn't mean to offend you with my affection for 'L'. Sorry.

Nobody is pitying you.



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19 Dec 2021, 1:08 pm

^ I wasn't addressing you. You're projecting things on to me.

I'm talking my general 'philosophy,' and commentating on what i find to be obnoxious kind of attitude of the OP.

QFT wrote:
theprisoner wrote:
OP comes off as a self-absorbed pompous over-analytical jerk.


What am I being jerk for? You said you don't take pity friends, I said the same thing.


You seem to have alot to say about this 'pity friend' of yours, as you describe her. Walls of text expounding on things to death. If you dont like somebody, dont talk to them, don't toy with them, leave them alone. Instead you act, as if you're some kind of superior being, who's doing them a favor by condescending to speak to them.


Quote:
I found a pity friend a couple of weeks ago. I hope she sticks around so that I can continue to shoot her down. It feels good.


You sound like a complete and utter jerk. If thats how you look at things, fine, thats you're prerogative.


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19 Dec 2021, 1:16 pm

theprisoner wrote:
^ I wasn't addressing you. You're projecting things on to me.

I'm talking my general 'philosophy,' and commentating on what i find to be obnoxious kind of attitude of the OP.


Oh, my bad.



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19 Dec 2021, 1:18 pm

theprisoner wrote:
You seem to have alot to say about this 'pity friend' of yours, as you describe her. Walls of text expounding on things to death. If you dont like somebody, dont talk to them, don't toy with them, leave them alone. Instead you act, as if you're some kind of superior being, who's doing them a favor by condescending to speak to them.


I didn't say I was "doing her a favor by condescending to speak to her". I said the other way around: "she was doing me a favor by condescending to speak to me". I realize that both of those things can be described as "pity friend" so maybe thats what caused the confusion. I didn't say "I am being friends to her out of pity". I said "she is being friends to me out of pity".

As far as walls of text, the context of this is the following. Nobody other than her ever speak to me, not even say hello. So then of course if someone finally does speak to me it would be a big deal. Kind of like a homeless on the street would find it a big deal if you give him some crumbs.

Now I realize that actually accepting said crumbs would be humiliating. Thats why I don't do it: I am sending the walls of text to WrongPlanet, not to her.

But even if I did decide to self-humiliate by responding to her (which I didn't do) how would self-humiliating make one a jerk? I thought a jerk is someone who humiliates others, not themselves?