Abortion Rights On the Chopping Block

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Maybe he's just mad that he can't get pregnant and have a baby himself, so has to lash out at the people who have the ability to have babies and choose not to.

There are anti-abortion people with that exact mindset. "I can't have children of my own, so you should be forced to carrying pregnancies to term to make me happy!"

Just codify Roe v. Wade, go around SCROTUS.

I agree that codefying the equivalent would be a good method for resolving the problem, but there's some states where that will be much harder than others. That said, if I can acquire or sell one type of illegal pill online easily, certainly I can get or sell another type of illegal pill online.

This is an obvious case where ignoring the laws that violate ones rights is perfectly in order and where decent people should contribute to that cause if possible.

I am assuming that it would be codified at the national level, and would apply to all 50 states.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/12/05/sen_amy_klobuchar_senate_should_codify_roe_v_wade_into_law.html

It IS imposing when a judicial action forces people to tolerate what they believe is criminal behavior. People tend to expect that there are consequences for murder, but what they get is SOME people are punished for murder while those who murder babies are not. You aren’t dealing with a conservative mindset or religious nuts. You are dealing with people with an intact sense of justice. They may not have the ability to articulate their sense of wrongness with infanticide to you in a way that will convince you that this is wrong, but that does not invalidate their uneasiness. To say “don’t have one” is no different than telling them to look the other way when someone harms a friend or spouse.

That’s beside the point, anyway. The death penalty for criminals, for instance, is a law in some jurisdictions. In these places, the death penalty laws are agreed upon by legislators elected by their constituents. Some jurisdictions are more in favor of it than others, but the point is it exists (or doesn’t) because the people there agree (or not) that it should (or shouldn’t). It’s perfectly reasonable that one can conceive of a valid reason to end a person’s life—and the same applies to a baby in the womb. I’m not in favor of criminalizing an emergency procedure to save a woman’s life (ectopic pregnancy, recent malignant cancer diagnosis, etc.) any more than I’m in favor of banning guns for self defense. The issue for me is that nobody is EVER granted a constitutional right to indiscriminate or unjustified killing, plus state governments have always reserved the right to enact and enforce laws to protect their citizens based on the will of the people. The federal government by way of a court decision has imposed its will on the people, which I find inexcusable and tyrannical. If Roe dies, then it’s an issue for the states…AS IT SHOULD BE.

Supposing it dies, it DOES NOT MEAN the end of abortion. As I said before, it changes nothing in New York, California, or the city of Chicago. It changes nothing anywhere else UNLESS there are already laws in place that would ban abortion if Roe were to be overturned. The idea that the whole country would ban abortion is nothing but liberal hysteria. Even in Mississippi abortion would still be legal under exceptional circumstances. The Southern Baptist Convention, speaking of conservatives and evangelicals, adopted a resolution calling for the complete ban of abortions. I think if reason wins the day, everyone will realize this just will not work. For example: My wife and I were crushed to learn that our baby had died in the womb two years ago. We had the option to have what is effectively an abortion or just wait for nature to take its course. Rather than just bleeding and waiting in pain, we decided to just get it over with. If abortions are illegal, then does that mean my wife has to serve time for manslaughter because her baby died? Doesn’t matter if the baby was already dead, because then she could come under suspicion for somehow causing the baby to die. Criminalizing abortion just isn’t going to happen because people have better sense than that. What WILL happen will be tighter, clearer definitions on what abortion IS and what exceptions can be made and what could be a prosecutable offense.

Plus…

SCOTUS is NOT going to overturn Roe. Monkeys will fly out my butt before that happens.

So then it should be okay to force people to be subjected to the beliefs and whims of anti-abortionists? Is it oppressive on anti-LGBT conservatives that gay marriage is legal? I don't doubt that they have firm beliefs that marriage should be between a man and a woman. I'm not sympathetic to the idea that their personal beliefs on marriage should trump other people's freedom to marry the person of their choice, though. People are free to have their own personal morals, but they are not free to impose their morals on other people in a way that deprives them of their civil rights.

Killing another person is not a civil right. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that LGBT by its nature is something that was demonstrated to harm others and threaten society as a whole. If so, then there’d be no discussion…it couldn’t be tolerated. While there might be arguments made to that effect, to my knowledge being gay doesn’t make you a murderer. Killing people without justification, however, DOES make you a murderer, DOES deprive another of civil rights, DOES cause harm to society. It is not a victimless crime. It’s not about “beliefs.” It’s about objective reality.

If you champion LGBT “rights,” it should frighten you that the only reason legal gay marriage even exists is because of court cases. Again, is being gay or having legal gay marriage harmful to society? Is it possible to imagine a world in which it is? Well, yeah. A world in which LGBT is not a problem is a world in which everyone respects each other’s boundaries, their own right to live and work for their own sake and on their own terms. So when ANY group, whether you’re talking about gays or conservatives, uses the force of government to tell someone else how to live, you do have a problem. If gays want to get married and a free society tolerates gays, then why not? But if gays are targeting Christians who are opposed to LGBT to force their acceptance by baking a wedding cake, then they ARE doing something that is harmful to society—not because Christians are right, but because it means anyone can wield government power to force anyone to do anything. Karma. And I don’t think the gay community as a whole wants that any more than Christians do. If you want a cake, just find someone who will bake the cake. There is no need to force someone to violate their own values when any number of people will step up, take your money, and do good work for you. Nobody has to get butthurt about it, nobody has to feel isolated or resentful. More importantly, nobody has to fear the government or the courts when the system works the way it’s supposed to. But considering the issues of abortion and LGBT rights, never forget what the Courts giveth the courts can taketh away.

Being pregnant is a medical condition. What about the harms to society by forcing people to continue a medical condition against their will? You can argue that it's for the sake of protecting another life, but where do we draw the line in that case? If I am in dire need of a kidney or some other organ, do I have the right to demand you give up one of yours in order to save my own life? Does declining to donate a kidney make you a murderer?

Not only that, but being pregnant is potentially dangerous, especially if you are poor, lack health insurance, or are a person of color. For example, black women are 3.5 times more likely to die giving birth than are white women.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... nal-deaths

What about the harms to society by forcing rape victims to continue pregnancies against their will? Does a rape victim's human rights to not continue a condition violently forced upon her not trump anybody else's rights?




Well, it doesn't really bother me that gay marriage is the result of a court case. That's what the courts are there for, after all, to protect people's civil rights. There would be no interracial marriage, freedom to access birth control, or desegregation without court cases, either.

Regarding the cake thing, I believe that if you own a business that's open to the public, then you have a responsibility to serve the public. That includes baking wedding cakes for gay couples as well as straight couples. It's not a matter of forcing anybody's beliefs on you, it's a matter of not wanting to be discriminated against, which does harm society.

Yeah it's freaking gross. Also, pregnancy has health risks and things, even women who want children sometimes have to get abortions for medical reasons. Also the U.S is slipping backwards as far as pregnancy survival rates go...like yes even in america it is possible to die from pregnancy...sometimes an abortion may be the way to alleviate that.

So on that is like literally white haired old men, trying to tell us women what to do with our uterus, even though they don't have to suffer any of the risks of pregnancy. I say f**k that nonsense! Grow a uterus at least before trying to tell women what to do with ours. And even then no woman should have any say or control of another womans uterus anyway.

Like pro-lifers want to use loaded language like 'baby killer' well I consider the pro lifers women killers, at least the women are already alive and not just fetuses or things in earlier stages that may not even make it. But by trying to remove abortion women will die more from pregnancy and/or desperately resorting to less than safe abortion methods. So fine right back at you, when will you value a living womans life more than the clump of cells in her body that may or may not even make it to birth?

I suppose pro-lifers also think in cases where it comes down to save the baby or the mother, they'd say the mother should just die. My sisters friend though had a close call where it almost came down to if they should save the baby or her...and she said her friends boyfriend/husband told her 'No if its you or the baby, I want you...I don't even know the baby yet.' obviously the rational choice. It ended up working out so she was able to birth the baby in the end, but can you imagine if the doctor was held back by law from saving her if say the preganancy really did go south, would have they been forced to neglect her due to laws putting fetus rights above womens rights? That is the scary part being forced to carry a pregnancy is bad enough, but also the idea you should be expected to give up your life to save your baby when it comes down to it. Like, yeah no thanks it's my uterus my property, If I don't want a thing that could develop into a baby growing in it, that should be my choice.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 06 Dec 2021, 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Exactly. They don't take into account or even care about the very real risks that come with being pregnant, especially for people of color. My cousin's girlfriend, who is black, suffered from seizures due to eclampsia shortly after giving birth. Taking that into account, I think it's immoral to force a condition that poses potentially serious risks on people.

the antiabortion people seem to only want to shove square pegs through round holes whether or not they fit.

I have a weird muscle condition, it doesn't cause much problems for me aside from maybe more muscle weakness than is normal. It initially looked like some kind of muscular dystrophy to doctors, but they since ruled that out and figured it was genetic mutation but still aren't sure what it is. Either way it could be something that if I had kids would effect them also with noted muscle weakness that isn't exactly normal and also could make the pregnancy more difficult for me, like what if my body can't even handle it.

Like if conservatives don't like abortion they can just not get abortions, but they should have no say in whether I should risk my wellbeing with a pregnancy I don't want or not. My uterus my choice! I say.

Pregnancy is complicated and potentially life-threatening. I wish conservatives would stop acting like it's this wonderful blessing from God.

EDIT: I forgot to even bring up miscarriage. What if a pregnant person miscarries? Should there be a police investigation to make sure they didn't actually induce an abortion? Does that come next after criminalizing abortion? Where do we draw the line when it comes to people's civil rights and their right to privacy?

Yeah as far as I see it it doesn't effect me if a couple has a child or not? so how in the hell do these entitled a**holes think if I accidently got pregnant and got an abortion it would effect them? If anything they should be glad I didn't pop out another mouth to feed with welfare food stamps/ebt which helps me afford groceries, you'd think. Since they hate tax money going to things that help people.

If I ever do get an abortion, or go to the planned parenthood clinic for any other reason I will make sure and bring an egg to throw at the anti-abortion protestors(maybe) idk I'll have to look into if that's illegal and if so what the worst penalty would be for it to decide if it is worth the risk. Otherwise, I suppose I'll just glare and give them a thumbs down signal. But yeah, apparently in my town there is a group who from time-to-time protests against abortion in front of the planned parenthood, me and my boyfriend have seen them a couple times driving by. And yes I made sure to flip them off, raised that middle finger proudly.