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auntblabby
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17 Dec 2021, 10:07 pm

some of that is unconditional and omnipresent parental exhortations and some of that was the germ of drive in their child which conditions fed on each other in a virtuous circle. but if the kid lacked the germ of ambition inside of him it would have likely been less successful, i've seen that up close and personal.



cyberdad
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18 Dec 2021, 12:00 am

auntblabby wrote:
some of that is unconditional and omnipresent parental exhortations and some of that was the germ of drive in their child which conditions fed on each other in a virtuous circle. but if the kid lacked the germ of ambition inside of him it would have likely been less successful, i've seen that up close and personal.


It could well be both



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18 Dec 2021, 7:19 pm

SharonB wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
IQ isn't a diagnostic feature of autism. ... People are given an abbreviated IQ test to determine their non-verbal or performance intelligence (PIQ) and their verbal intelligence (VIQ).


I find a study (2012) that states "Performance IQ (PIQ) greater than verbal IQ (VIQ) is often observed in studies of the cognitive abilities of autistic individuals. This characteristic is correlated with social and communication impairments, key parts of the autism diagnosis."

This is certainly my experience. Even though my verbal tests as average my specialist considered it a diagnosable disability relative to my nonverbal abilities (my top score is 99.6 percentile for visual processing). I can see or feel a concept, but have significant difficulties communicating it. It's a real bummer for my confidence. My ASD daughter tends the same way. So much going on in her head and yet she struggles to come up with basic words. When she reads she can decode rapidly but doesn't comprehend well. Meanwhile my 8yo ADHD son is the opposite: he has problems decoding but has a significantly advanced vocabulary and comprehension. Now if he would just pay attention long enough to answer the questions...


I don't think there's a single IQ profile that is reliably associated with autism.

Those with higher functioning autism usually have a higher verbal IQ. But, there's only one problem. In practice, the distinguishing feature of HFA vs "lower functioning autism" is the ability to speak with one's own mouth. It's hard to say though whether the higher verbal IQ enables speech, or whether more practice with speaking results in a higher verbal IQ. I suspect the latter but I guess we can't be sure.


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SharonB
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18 Dec 2021, 10:59 pm

Glflegolas wrote:
I don't think there's a single IQ profile that is reliably associated with autism.

Perhaps the great variances for a single individual? More generally an ND thing, but one indicator.

kraftiekortie wrote:
One time, when I was 15, my VIQ was 60 points higher than my PIQ

Impressive given your delayed speech. When I was tested recently I remember my mind flooding with associations or PTSD and not be able to pick one out. In particular they asked about the associate between "crown" and "badge" - but previously that day I had mentioned a traumatic incident involving a police officer, so all I could come up during the test was the commonality of "5 letters" --- because AUTHORITY would have made me cry. It's not that I don't know; I just can't (won't) grasp it.



kraftiekortie
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19 Dec 2021, 2:25 am

I believe I take things so literally that I wouldn’t have been able to blurt out “symbols of authority” as the association between “crown” and “badge” during the test itself. I would have thought about this later.



SharonB
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19 Dec 2021, 3:04 pm

And hence your VIQ is higher than mine. :mrgreen:



kraftiekortie
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19 Dec 2021, 4:27 pm

Lol….I’m certainly not sure about that!

It’s not that high, actually. About 120, versus 104 for PIQ.

When I was 15, I scored 150 for VIQ, and 90 for PIQ. In real life, I suck at something like interior decorating, partially because I don’t make an effort.



Aspinator
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19 Dec 2021, 4:42 pm

My best guess is that autism and IQ have the same correlation as that of the general population. Only a small percentage of the general population have autism but I would imagine having a high or low IQ would be the same as the general population.



carlos55
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19 Dec 2021, 7:11 pm

There’s probably an associated genetic/ pathology reason behind the 30% of autistic ID.

Those that are borderline 70-84 , below the NT average i.e 85-115 I believe possibly the consequences of the problems of autism itself in learning.

Humans learn partly through sharing of ideas, questioning , observing others and imitating not forgetting sitting still and concentrating, allowing the framework of future IQ to be built.

It’s well known that autistic kids struggle with all of that falling behind and not being able to catch up because the window of IQ may close by a certain age.

Science has evidence of this early limited window for IQ building from the 90s Romanian orphanages. Many of these babies that lacked the external stimulation grew up with a below normal IQ.

Im not saying autism is the same as no external stimulation of course but that the IQ window was closed during this time and was permanently damaged in adulthood.

Obviously many on the Aspergers end don’t have as many of these issues so have an IQ within the 85 and above range.


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lostonearth35
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19 Dec 2021, 10:37 pm

The psychiatrist who diagnosed me with Asperger's thought at first I was mildly intellectually disabled, but decided I couldn't be because I was "too smart".



SharonB
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19 Dec 2021, 10:49 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Lol….I’m certainly not sure about that!

It’s not that high, actually. About 120, versus 104 for PIQ.

When I was 15, I scored 150 for VIQ, and 90 for PIQ. In real life, I suck at something like interior decorating, partially because I don’t make an effort.

We're in reverse! My VIQ was 105 while PIQ was 130+. I suppose it makes sense my job is solving spatial puzzles. But I don't want to be pigeon holed.



cyberdad
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20 Dec 2021, 12:11 am

carlos55 wrote:
Obviously many on the Aspergers end don’t have as many of these issues so have an IQ within the 85 and above range.


Did you just invent your own version of Aspegers? it's supposed to be IQ > 70



carlos55
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20 Dec 2021, 7:50 am

cyberdad wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
Obviously many on the Aspergers end don’t have as many of these issues so have an IQ within the 85 and above range.


Did you just invent your own version of Aspegers? it's supposed to be IQ > 70


To have had Aspergers a person needed to have had no communication delay & IQ in the normal range.

By normal range i would have thought -85 & above but some may have different exact figures since ID starts at 70 & below.

Link shows IQ differences between HFA level 1 & old aspergers i believe

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... 07.01617.x


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Fierynaga
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22 Dec 2021, 2:28 pm

SharonB wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Lol….I’m certainly not sure about that!

It’s not that high, actually. About 120, versus 104 for PIQ.

When I was 15, I scored 150 for VIQ, and 90 for PIQ. In real life, I suck at something like interior decorating, partially because I don’t make an effort.

We're in reverse! My VIQ was 105 while PIQ was 130+. I suppose it makes sense my job is solving spatial puzzles. But I don't want to be pigeon holed.


I'm another reversed case. VIQ is 111 and PIQ is 144.



SharonB
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23 Dec 2021, 7:12 pm

Fierynaga wrote:
SharonB wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Lol….I’m certainly not sure about that!

It’s not that high, actually. About 120, versus 104 for PIQ.

When I was 15, I scored 150 for VIQ, and 90 for PIQ. In real life, I suck at something like interior decorating, partially because I don’t make an effort.

We're in reverse! My VIQ was 105 while PIQ was 130+. I suppose it makes sense my job is solving spatial puzzles. But I don't want to be pigeon holed.


I'm another reversed case. VIQ is 111 and PIQ is 144.

Hello, fellow over-25-point-spread-in-favor-of-PIQ person. I am of Rochesterian heritage, maybe it's something in the water there. (Joking in a number of ways, but not all) https://www.geodatos.net/en/homonymous-cities/rochester

Welcome to WP.



cyberdad
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24 Dec 2021, 12:04 am

carlos55 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
Obviously many on the Aspergers end don’t have as many of these issues so have an IQ within the 85 and above range.


Did you just invent your own version of Aspegers? it's supposed to be IQ > 70


To have had Aspergers a person needed to have had no communication delay & IQ in the normal range.

By normal range i would have thought -85 & above but some may have different exact figures since ID starts at 70 & below.

Link shows IQ differences between HFA level 1 & old aspergers i believe

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... 07.01617.x


Oh I see, thanks.