Rittenhouse wants Biden to Apologise to him

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cyberdad
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18 Dec 2021, 3:17 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
[ Sandman is a child of privilege who was traveling with his private school schoolmates. There is an higher percentage than normal of self-entitled jerks running in such circles.


I get that bit, infact I went to a private catholic school with plenty of jerks who's parents were millionaires, I know the type, I can smell them a mile away. Those kids were going home and deliberately crossed the street to stoke trouble for laughs. It was one those jerks who was filming the incident because they thought it was funny. Ironic their own film can make the same trouble makers money.



NoClearMind53
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18 Dec 2021, 5:08 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I do agree the media should offer a retraction where they got facts wrong. My guess is even if Kyle doesn't make any money from legal action/defamation the damage he will inflict against the credibility of the mainstream media as "left-wing/woke apologists" will work for the republican party who seem to trade in this type of propaganda to win supporters.

Fox is also "mainstream media". The "mainstream media" has a right wing element and a socially liberal element, and both seem to seek profit by provoking controversy while not going very deep. You will notice that the "left-wing" mainstream media are very eager to demonize Trumpists, but hardly ever talk about things like growing poverty and housing insecurity that is affecting EVERY race. Mostly likely because their owners don't want to do anything about those problems. There is an "anti-woke" segment of the left that leans more social democratic or even socialist, but most older people don't even know about these people because they're stuck in an internet bubble that doesn't get exposed on mainstream media.



NoClearMind53
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18 Dec 2021, 5:37 pm

Pepe wrote:
Where did I say I don't understand her?
I well and truly understand what "Morality is more important than the facts" means.
She will never live that down, but she is young and will gain greater political nous, over time.

I don't understand how attacking talking points and ignoring substance is an indicator of wisdom. I support her because she is fighting for things Australians already have. You have no idea how much Americans have been screwed.

Quote:
This is how experience works, as you know.
The more life/political experience one gains, the more life/political experience one gains.
Can't argue with that, though some may try. 8)

In the US, "experienced" politicians are the worst, because they are the most corrupted by self-interested financial motives. They like to play the "experienced technocrat" card, but if you look deeper you see that they are full of crap. This includes people like Nancy Pelosi. In the US people are tired of career politicians across the spectrum. It's one thing that contributed to the popularity of Trump.

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ASPartOfMe wrote:
When you look at Biden’s build back better program, his use of woke type language who does that resemble more AOC or the Joe Biden who wrote the 1994 crime bill?


Uncle Joe doesn't have a great reputation for being a political intellectual great either.
He got into the Presidency because he wasn't Trump, remember? ;)

I see the problem is over language rather than substance. This is the entire problem with American politics.

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ASPartOfMe wrote:
For further understanding of why AOC and democratic socialism appeals to young adults read the Entitled Mellenials thread

I have better things to do with my time.
Talk to me if she ever becomes President. 8)

I don't think anyone on the left believes the US is going to become socialist even if Bernie was president. That's not how the political system works. It takes more than one person to change things. Most people just want to push the needle in a more social democratic direction. Clinton era Democrats who pushed wall street deregulation and harsh sentencing along with Republicans are just not popular with anyone these days... yet they still try to hang on because they are popular with the corporate elite who give them the most campaign money.



NoClearMind53
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18 Dec 2021, 5:51 pm

Sorry for veering off topic. Honestly I'm tired of these BS issues everyone keeps focusing on. I agree with the jury decision based on the charge of homicide. I think in a system with just laws he would be guilty of some lesser charge, but I realize it's impossible to get new laws in this idiotic partisan atmosphere of the moment. Neither "side" of the mainstream media really got it right IMHO. Just please, if you bring a firearm to a protest stay on your own side with your own group. Otherwise future unrest will escalate to bloodbaths because both sides will have their AR-15s out. A lot of lefties started buying weapons after Jan 6.



DW_a_mom
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18 Dec 2021, 7:07 pm

NoClearMind53 wrote:
You will notice that the "left-wing" mainstream media are very eager to demonize Trumpists, but hardly ever talk about things like growing poverty and housing insecurity that is affecting EVERY race. Mostly likely because their owners don't want to do anything about those problems. There is an "anti-woke" segment of the left that leans more social democratic or even socialist, but most older people don't even know about these people because they're stuck in an internet bubble that doesn't get exposed on mainstream media.


I don’t know what media you follow, but while it is inherently true that these long festering issues aren’t headline news, there is substantial reporting on and discussion about them in liberal media and liberal circles, including among us “older”folk. They are complicated issues that require more space than a TV report or newspaper piece can give them, so you have to be following the more in-depth delivery vehicles, or paying attention to multi-part in-depth reporting. It accomplishes little to remind us the issues exist; I think we are painfully aware they do, and it drives liberal policy proposals. When it comes to reporting, we need to understand how we got here so we can figure a way out.

Seriously, neither my mom in her nineties nor me in my sixties need a news report to tell us that the financial hurdles my kids face are far deeper than any I had to face at their age, or to make it painfully obvious that the economic promises of my younger life aren’t going to make it to my retirement. My friends and coworkers and I talk about it all the time, and I think people like us make up the majority of older liberal voters.


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cyberdad
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18 Dec 2021, 8:30 pm

NoClearMind53 wrote:
Fox is also "mainstream media". The "mainstream media" has a right wing element and a socially liberal element, and both seem to seek profit by provoking controversy while not going very deep.

Fox (like our Sky news in UK and Australia) is owned by Rupert Murdoch (An Australian). He has not always been so right wing (classically he was friends with Tony Blair a labour minister) but over the years he has switched editorial content to support conservative values in his media interests in your country, UK and Australia. Fox has been championing Rittenhouse since August 2020 and promoting the idea he should force Biden to apologise.

NoClearMind53 wrote:
You will notice that the "left-wing" mainstream media are very eager to demonize Trumpists, but hardly ever talk about things like growing poverty and housing insecurity that is affecting EVERY race. .


Previous republican leaders have never launched such a vicious attack on the mainstream media and I don't recall ABC, CNBC or the New York TImes or Washington Post being labelled fake news by Bush Jr or Sr. Trump has a very dodgy past and his election platform back in 2016 had never championed alleviating poverty or improving housing, The idea he was selling to improve employment was to basically stop imports and bring back jobs from China. An enormous number of republicans (including educated ones) seemed to ignore basic facts (even a high school student would know) that you can't compete with China on wages in the manufacturing sector. It was always undeliverable promises.

When he was in power in the first few months he lied about job numbers going up attributing it to him when infact all major business publications stated the obvious that jobs numbers improved because of policies put in by the previous Obama administration. He then added business publications onto the list of fake news.

Why did he attack the media? because a) he had no viable policies and b) his slogans being reported in papers were deplorable appealing to base level emotion/fear of outsiders (classic far right ideas he was getting from Steve Bannon a well known far right figure). Editors of major media outlets were merely pointing out the obvious,



NoClearMind53
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19 Dec 2021, 3:02 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
You will notice that the "left-wing" mainstream media are very eager to demonize Trumpists, but hardly ever talk about things like growing poverty and housing insecurity that is affecting EVERY race. Mostly likely because their owners don't want to do anything about those problems. There is an "anti-woke" segment of the left that leans more social democratic or even socialist, but most older people don't even know about these people because they're stuck in an internet bubble that doesn't get exposed on mainstream media.


I don’t know what media you follow, but while it is inherently true that these long festering issues aren’t headline news, there is substantial reporting on and discussion about them in liberal media and liberal circles, including among us “older”folk. They are complicated issues that require more space than a TV report or newspaper piece can give them, so you have to be following the more in-depth delivery vehicles, or paying attention to multi-part in-depth reporting. It accomplishes little to remind us the issues exist; I think we are painfully aware they do, and it drives liberal policy proposals. When it comes to reporting, we need to understand how we got here so we can figure a way out.

Seriously, neither my mom in her nineties nor me in my sixties need a news report to tell us that the financial hurdles my kids face are far deeper than any I had to face at their age, or to make it painfully obvious that the economic promises of my younger life aren’t going to make it to my retirement. My friends and coworkers and I talk about it all the time, and I think people like us make up the majority of older liberal voters.

Well, cable news is clearly the worst. I don't even watch it since cable is not worth paying for, but when I go to the websites for current events it seemed like all there was most of the past 5 years was Trump Trump Trump Trump... then when covid hit it was half Trump half covid. A chunk of liberal voters might care about the issues, but often it seems like elected Democrats are just not passionate. They are spineless and look like they shoot themselves in the foot on purpose. They fail to even advertise the details of what's in their legislation and let the GOP propaganda outlets steal the narrative. The so-called liberal MSM doesn't help when it constantly throws out the price tag in the headline without even mentioning that it's to be spent over 10 years.

There may be news sources that still do investigative journalism, but most are locked behind a paywall, and even if the paywall isn't there just aren't written in a way that would appeal to average people. Meanwhile the dumbed-down headline media just doesn't touch on so many things and uses divisive language for no reason but to increase profit. I have no problem saying that saying that systemic racism and white supremacy are things that exist, but you can't just throw them out constantly as either shibboleths of "wokeness" or blanket attacks on the red hat people. You have to discuss what words mean in historical context if you use them, not just throw them into headlines and make talking points with them. All red hat people ever hear is people calling them nazis. They come across as having an biased agenda while not actually even helping that agenda.

Sorry if my writing isn't super organized. I'm not trying to attack older people in general. I'm 41 myself. Not a spring chicken.



NoClearMind53
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19 Dec 2021, 3:20 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Previous republican leaders have never launched such a vicious attack on the mainstream media and I don't recall ABC, CNBC or the New York TImes or Washington Post being labelled fake news by Bush Jr or Sr. Trump has a very dodgy past and his election platform back in 2016 had never championed alleviating poverty or improving housing, The idea he was selling to improve employment was to basically stop imports and bring back jobs from China. An enormous number of republicans (including educated ones) seemed to ignore basic facts (even a high school student would know) that you can't compete with China on wages in the manufacturing sector. It was always undeliverable promises.

When he was in power in the first few months he lied about job numbers going up attributing it to him when infact all major business publications stated the obvious that jobs numbers improved because of policies put in by the previous Obama administration. He then added business publications onto the list of fake news.

Why did he attack the media? because a) he had no viable policies and b) his slogans being reported in papers were deplorable appealing to base level emotion/fear of outsiders (classic far right ideas he was getting from Steve Bannon a well known far right figure). Editors of major media outlets were merely pointing out the obvious,

I'm not going to defend Trump. He is obviously a threat and it became even more apparent to me how dangerous he was AFTER losing the election. I also feel like all the regular media fed into it though. They all feed the clash because they're businesses desperate for views. Jon Stewart had a good take on it.



cyberdad
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20 Dec 2021, 12:22 am

NoClearMind53 wrote:
I also feel like all the regular media fed into it though. They all feed the clash because they're businesses desperate for views. Jon Stewart had a good take on it.


It's not just regular media. Twitter traffic increased massively following Trump's election. Yes Trump was good for media business.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dbloom/201 ... aa159f3abd

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... es/525381/



NoClearMind53
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20 Dec 2021, 2:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
I also feel like all the regular media fed into it though. They all feed the clash because they're businesses desperate for views. Jon Stewart had a good take on it.


It's not just regular media. Twitter traffic increased massively following Trump's election. Yes Trump was good for media business.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dbloom/201 ... aa159f3abd

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... es/525381/

Yea. It seems like the whole nation is just being eaten alive by the current cancer that is the profit motive. It's no longer driving innovation to the degree it's driving a wedge in society. It's more profitable to make people fight each other than to face real problems. :roll:



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20 Dec 2021, 4:10 pm

NoClearMind53 wrote:
It's more profitable to make people fight each other than to face real problems. :roll:


Especially if the solutions might be contrary to your own interests. 8)


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cyberdad
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20 Dec 2021, 11:47 pm

NoClearMind53 wrote:
Yea. It seems like the whole nation is just being eaten alive by the current cancer that is the profit motive. It's no longer driving innovation to the degree it's driving a wedge in society. It's more profitable to make people fight each other than to face real problems. :roll:


It's not just America, I see this across the western/English speaking world where conservative governments are currently dominating.

We have had left wing opposition in Australia who have come out with election platforms like these
- create smart economy
- super fast broadband network
- electric car incentives
- invest in STEM
- adhere to global carbon emission goals
- invest in alternative energy and emission control technology
- invest in higher education
- create a larger co-prosperity sphere in Asia to improve trade of goods and services
- create jobs in technology and future

The conservative platform is these
- slow down immigration
- increase funding for coal mining and cutting down forests
- freeze wages and remove minimum wages
- create manufacturing jobs to compete with poor countries that pay below minimum wage
- reduce tax for the wealthy
- to pay for reduced taxes cut government jobs and sell profitable government owned enterprises to private hands
- sell land to foreign conglemerates
- blame minorities for crime
- start a war on media broadcasters and education to stop wokeism
- fund religious schools who attack LGBTQI



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21 Dec 2021, 2:27 am

Brictoria wrote:
It seems Mr Biden isn't the only one who has made factually incorrect statements regarding Mr Rittenhouse: