Bernie Bros are as much a threat to US democracy as...

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...Trump supporters (curse you WP for restricting the length of subject lines so severely!).

I leave it to the commenters to identify reasons to rebut or support this assertion, thanks!

Seems like a strong statement to make without any argument whatsoever to substantiate it.

Do you have a good argument to rebut? Please keep in mind that the US has a two-party political system. I can imagine that somebody accustomed to a parliamentary system might not understand my post.

There's nothing to rebut because there's nothing to support the initial claim. If I claim people with autism are actually dinosaurs no one needs to seriously rebut that claim because it has no basis in reality and can't be substantiated.

I'm familiar with America's two parties and I'm familiar with parliamentary democracy.

Not sure I agree...

They aren't actively trying to destroy democracy like the Trumpers. Still Bernie supporters should have voted for Hillary Clinton like Bernie said back in 2016 and maybe we wouldn't have got the mess that is Trump. I am one of the ones who should have voted that way.

I think the fact that people actively support systems functioning against them is much worse than any single candidate or their supporters.

Adjacent to that, would you say the progressives and social democrats you know have suddenly gone full-tankie, or are they still progressives and social democrats?



I'd say everything past frame one is still unthinkably radical to express in mainstream progressive circles, unless framed ironically. Frame two or three seems to be where the folks Bernie Bros would call rad-left mostly occupy. Tankies are frame six.

Does this have something to do with "neo-liberalism"?

No, not specifically. Could be anything.

So in a parliamentary system (which the US is not and never will be) you could be a Communist and win representation of your riding in Parliament, and if there were Communists representing enough other ridings you might even be asked to participate in formng a government. I am not equating Progressives with Communists but you should get my point. In post WWII Europe, exactly what I described did happen more than once so it's not some fantasy.

So one obstacle to progressive ideas in the US is Senator Manchin of W. Virginia. He's not a bad guy, but even Joe Biden's (no you don't need to cross yourself at the mention of his name!) more progressive policies are two far left for his (Manchin's) constituency. Now his constituency is dominated by coal miners. In most parts of the world, it's a no-brainer to get coal miners to follow a Leftist agenda, but the US is not the rest of the world. Opposition of just that one Senator is enough to stop the more progressive bits of Biden's agenda from moving forward. Bernie wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hell advancing HIS agenda.

But Bernie Bros either fail to recognize this reality or refuse to acknowledge it. And I wouldn't be surprised if Trump's political organization is acting in secret to ensure that doesn't change, as it works so well in their favor.

Our democracy was subverted decades ago, so there isn't anything left to protect.

you're the textbook example of what Max is talking about, and you just proved his point.

You are an actual "Bernie Boy" who denies the existence of democracy itself- thereby threatening the existence of democracy by (a)advocating the violent overthrow of the government (just like Trump cultists), but (b) unlike Trump cultist you are so politically narcissistic that you dont even REALIZE that you advocate the violent overthrow of the government. The opinions I have seen you post on this site make no sense...unless you want a violent overthrow of the government. But you never admit that violent overthrow is what you want.

And BTW democracy does to a degree still exist in the US. If it didnt the GOP wouldnt be striving so hard to suppress votes like it is.

Max (the original poster) can now rest his case.

have you considered that being a threat to the democracy you describe here might be the very reaction this democracy necessarily creates? It sounds like your system desperately requires reform while being utterly unreformable.

By "threat to democracy" I meant the government coming under control of a fascist régime led by Donald Trump. To me it sounds like you are talking about a radical change in the form of government, in which the current constitution would be replaced. That isn't what I meant by a "threat". The US could easily become a fascist state without changing a single word in the constitution.

oh, yes, yes. Hitler was voted into power in a democratic election, while conservatives were screaming that socialists are a threat to democracy.
It looks like the options are "Bideness as usual", "Trump fascism" and "Bernie reform".
And you are suggesting that "Bideness as usual" is somehow sustainable and will not lead to "Trump fascism"...? And the threat of "Bernie revolution" is fuelling the Trump fascism?

What I'm talking about may be a little over your head, but I'll try to explain it. I'm talking about the coup de'tat the ruling elite long ago staged against our government. Voting is a joke, since there is no way to vote against all the corporate interests that own all the miserable candidates candidates we're served up through the primary process, which is a joke.

I do not support Sanders, by the way, since he sold out to the political establishment way too many times. I also do not support a "violent overthrow" because that can never work. The only way is through massive peaceful movements. There is no hope through the electoral process, as Chris Hedges has stated many times, and I believe he is correct. It's going to be up to the people. Voting is nothing but a jerk-off at this point.