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Dandansson
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27 Dec 2021, 6:54 am

I have listened a lot to people who call themselves experts in autism. Some of them have an ASD diagnosis. Many of them mention what I call stereotypes. They sometimes say that "people with ASD have a special interest" and "people with ASD cannot automatize a behvaiour".
Sometimes I wonder if people speak like this in order to generalize or overemphasize something in order to make it more clear.
Many people talk about special interests. Then it is usually about people who enter into a specific interest and enjoy it and don't experience any frustration at all. At least as I understand it. But I wonder if you can actually have an interest in something without a lot of frustration.
Automation should work for some of us. Otherwise we would not find people with ASD who are extremely good at something.

My thinking is that a lot that is said about autism can't be that correct. There must be some kind of reason why people speak about eg speacial interests without mention all the frustrations or the ability many of us have when it comes to automatize an action (is that the correct term?). There might be people who only do something for fun or cannot learn to make an action more automatic but many of us are not like that at all. Then we have that thing about us not being good at household chores. Some of us are actually very good at it.
What do you think? How should we speak about autism?



autisticelders
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27 Dec 2021, 7:23 am

well, we have to be vague because the spectrum is so wide that we can't make statements that all autistic people do "this".
Some will do and some won't.

I think that is one of the really difficult things about defining autism for diagnosis/definition of how to recognize it , since no two of us are alike.
Making standardized rigid statements about autism will most likely be not fitting or correct.
Is that the sort of thing you are thinking???


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Dandansson
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27 Dec 2021, 7:47 am

autisticelders wrote:
well, we have to be vague because the spectrum is so wide that we can't make statements that all autistic people do "this".
Some will do and some won't.

I think that is one of the really difficult things about defining autism for diagnosis/definition of how to recognize it , since no two of us are alike.
Making standardized rigid statements about autism will most likely be not fitting or correct.
Is that the sort of thing you are thinking???

We are different and people generalize too much! People might also overemphasize something and miss other important stuff.



Dandansson
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27 Dec 2021, 10:31 am

Dandansson wrote:
autisticelders wrote:
well, we have to be vague because the spectrum is so wide that we can't make statements that all autistic people do "this".
Some will do and some won't.

I think that is one of the really difficult things about defining autism for diagnosis/definition of how to recognize it , since no two of us are alike.
Making standardized rigid statements about autism will most likely be not fitting or correct.
Is that the sort of thing you are thinking???

We are different and people generalize too much! People might also overemphasize something and miss other important stuff.

why do people often generalize and overemphasize something? Do they think it will help? Why do people with ASD do it? I really do think that people are aware of it and have some reasons for doing it. I don't really know why anyone would be helped by it. To me it's like you are confusing people.
I can't stand people who simply things that cannot be simplified. "When you do something you like the frustratios will go away!". Well, not for many of us. "People with ASD are bad at household chores!". Well, it's not true for all of us.



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27 Dec 2021, 3:09 pm

I suggest more as an umbrella disorder of many unknown causes with some common overlapping symptoms


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Dandansson
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27 Dec 2021, 3:36 pm

carlos55 wrote:
I suggest more as an umbrella disorder of many unknown causes with some common overlapping symptoms

perhaps. I always get frustrated and I mean a lot. This is why I never really listen to podcasts about autism because they always talk about how we can do things without getting frustrated. I can't!
Podcasts about autism tell a lot of bad info in my opinion.
We are different but people still try to see how simmilar we are. We are both simmilar and different.
Frustration is to me one of the biggest issues.
People who say that special interest never includes a lot of frustrations seem like liars to me.



Last edited by Dandansson on 27 Dec 2021, 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Dec 2021, 3:44 pm

One indicator is where an individual can be a complete genius in one given area but in another area they are the complete opposite, where allistic people will be more allround and general in whatever intelligence they may be blessed with.
Though this concept in itself may not neccessarily be true with all autistics as autism in itself is where brain signals do not make it to their destination... So some just have certain things they are not able to do due to this, and yet they do not have the genius level. This genius level is due to the brain growth compensating for the missing areas by overdeveloping other areas. (This also accounts for hypersensitivities).

Autism is not always easy to diagnose as well because one person may have certain missing brain connections which effect their speech or their motor control where another may have a totally different set of issues relating to different brain signals which are lacking.

And there are then the situation of brain overload in the forms of meltdowns and shutdowns which though this can also effect allistic people, it tends to effect them if they have mentally overstretched themselves due to pressures or stresses etc, while autistic people will be effected far more often and at times daily depending on how relaxed or stressed they maybe.
Around 60% of those on the spectrum experience meltdowns and 60% experience shutdowns in their various forms, and around 20% who are on the spectrum have never experienced either of them.
So meltdowns and shutdowns are a good indicator as overall 80% on the spectrum will experience one or the other.


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Dandansson
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27 Dec 2021, 3:49 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
One indicator is where an individual can be a complete genius in one given area but in another area they are the complete opposite, where allistic people will be more allround and general in whatever intelligence they may be blessed with.
Though this concept in itself may not neccessarily be true with all autistics as autism in itself is where brain signals do not make it to their destination... So some just have certain things they are not able to do due to this, and yet they do not have the genius level. This genius level is due to the brain growth compensating for the missing areas by overdeveloping other areas. (This also accounts for hypersensitivities).

Autism is not always easy to diagnose as well because one person may have certain missing brain connections which effect their speech or their motor control where another may have a totally different set of issues relating to different brain signals which are lacking.

And there are then the situation of brain overload in the forms of meltdowns and shutdowns which though this can also effect allistic people, it tends to effect them if they have mentally overstretched themselves due to pressures or stresses etc, while autistic people will be effected far more often and at times daily depending on how relaxed or stressed they maybe.
Around 60% of those on the spectrum experience meltdowns and 60% experience shutdowns in their various forms, and around 20% who are on the spectrum have never experienced either of them.
So meltdowns and shutdowns are a good indicator as overall 80% on the spectrum will experience one or the other.

exactly. I know a lot of people who show greaters frustration when they are involved in their special interest(s) because they care so much about it. I think people who try really hard experience meltdowns or shutdowns.

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27 Dec 2021, 3:53 pm

We should speak about autism as being a developmental disorder which has many individual presentations. The Spectrum Idea is convenient, but it's imperfect.

It's not "one size fits all."

It's a more complex notion than it was, say, in the 1960s, when only the most severe of us, primarily, would have been diagnosed with autism. There were definite behaviors exhibited within "this" autism, and it was much easier to diagnose back then.



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27 Dec 2021, 4:02 pm

Dandansson wrote:

Many people talk about special interests.


Autism isn't characterised by having a special interest (or by having a special interest with or without frustration).

The wording from the DSM5 is this:

"Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus; (such as strong
attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative
interests".

This is only one of four descriptors in Part B of the criteria. Two descriptors must be met from Part B.

Furthermore the level of this fixated interest must be severe enough to interfere with a person's overall functioning, in social contexts or even on a day to day level. For any behaviour to be considered part of a "disorder" (ASD), it must have a significant / negative / unhealthy impact on our lives.


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Dandansson
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27 Dec 2021, 4:16 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Dandansson wrote:

Many people talk about special interests.


Autism isn't characterised by having a special interest (or by having a special interest with or without frustration).

The wording from the DSM5 is this:

"Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus; (such as strong
attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative
interests".

This is only one of four descriptors in Part B of the criteria. Two descriptors must be met from Part B.

Furthermore the level of this fixated interest must be severe enough to interfere with a person's overall functioning, in social contexts or even on a day to day level. For any behaviour to be considered part of a "disorder" (ASD), it must have a significant / negative / unhealthy impact on our lives.

people say so much about autism and some contradict eachother.
focusing too much on something that isn't helpful at all has been my issue, I guess. My interests have always been restricted in that I had to do things my own way. It was hard being social.

I think I missunderstand something: special interests are often not about skills. I am focused on skills, eg how good of an actor I can be and I seldom focus on other stuff. Are special interests seldom about having specific skills?



Last edited by Dandansson on 27 Dec 2021, 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dandansson
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27 Dec 2021, 4:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We should speak about autism as being a developmental disorder which has many individual presentations. The Spectrum Idea is convenient, but it's imperfect.

It's not "one size fits all."

It's a more complex notion than it was, say, in the 1960s, when only the most severe of us, primarily, would have been diagnosed with autism. There were definite behaviors exhibited within "this" autism, and it was much easier to diagnose back then.

but I think asperger's is pretty severe. Being too normal but not normal creates problems and many of them.



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27 Dec 2021, 4:43 pm

Dandansson wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Dandansson wrote:

Many people talk about special interests.


Autism isn't characterised by having a special interest (or by having a special interest with or without frustration).

The wording from the DSM5 is this:

"Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus; (such as strong
attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative
interests".

This is only one of four descriptors in Part B of the criteria. Two descriptors must be met from Part B.

Furthermore the level of this fixated interest must be severe enough to interfere with a person's overall functioning, in social contexts or even on a day to day level. For any behaviour to be considered part of a "disorder" (ASD), it must have a significant / negative / unhealthy impact on our lives.

people say so much about autism and some contradict eachother.
focusing too much on something that isn't helpful at all has been my issue, I guess. My interests have always been restricted in that I had to do things my own way. It was hard being social.


I'm sorry to hear that. I'm the same way: Go big or go home.

When I'm interested in something it's worse than falling down a rabbit hole. I can go full days of 24 hours+ without sleeping or eating. Thinking only via tunnel vision. The rest of the world fades away. The house could be on fire and I doubt I'd notice. This can happen for the simplest task, like picking a pair of slippers online. I can spend days obsessed with the task as if my life depends on it. Of course it also happens for lifelong special interests, but also for fleeting thoughts. I might see an actress on TV and suddenly feel the need to learn everything about her by staying up all night and forgetting to eat. Then suddenly the interest is satiated and I move on to the next thing.


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27 Dec 2021, 9:15 pm

^ That's what i call hyper-focus. I can be very prone to it. I can slip into tunnel vision. Develop obsessions. Be really interested, even addicted to things.. or persons. Yeah, Its why i have such poor time management. If I'm fascinated with a musician for eg. i will watch all their interviews, listen to all their songs, Until i feel I'm familiar with them, know enough. It starts off a casual interest, but i can get caught up in it. Like a snowball effect. Eventually the intensity burns out, and i drift towards a new interest. I figured I've learned everything i can. Yeah,satiated, that's the word. Not that I'm fickle. I'll revisit older interests I had. Almost rotate them. But my interest always expands. I guess this is an aspect of my personality that proves my diagnosis wasn't no fluke.


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Dandansson
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29 Dec 2021, 3:49 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Dandansson wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Dandansson wrote:

Many people talk about special interests.


Autism isn't characterised by having a special interest (or by having a special interest with or without frustration).

The wording from the DSM5 is this:

"Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus; (such as strong
attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative
interests".

This is only one of four descriptors in Part B of the criteria. Two descriptors must be met from Part B.

Furthermore the level of this fixated interest must be severe enough to interfere with a person's overall functioning, in social contexts or even on a day to day level. For any behaviour to be considered part of a "disorder" (ASD), it must have a significant / negative / unhealthy impact on our lives.

people say so much about autism and some contradict eachother.
focusing too much on something that isn't helpful at all has been my issue, I guess. My interests have always been restricted in that I had to do things my own way. It was hard being social.


I'm sorry to hear that. I'm the same way: Go big or go home.

When I'm interested in something it's worse than falling down a rabbit hole. I can go full days of 24 hours+ without sleeping or eating. Thinking only via tunnel vision. The rest of the world fades away. The house could be on fire and I doubt I'd notice. This can happen for the simplest task, like picking a pair of slippers online. I can spend days obsessed with the task as if my life depends on it. Of course it also happens for lifelong special interests, but also for fleeting thoughts. I might see an actress on TV and suddenly feel the need to learn everything about her by staying up all night and forgetting to eat. Then suddenly the interest is satiated and I move on to the next thing.

I hate when I think too much about something but we all get frustrated something and just get stuck in some problem we have. It is not fun hyperfocusing on a problem. It's not good as it really never solves it.
Is this what you are talking about?

theprisoner wrote:
^ That's what i call hyper-focus. I can be very prone to it. I can slip into tunnel vision. Develop obsessions. Be really interested, even addicted to things.. or persons. Yeah, Its why i have such poor time management. If I'm fascinated with a musician for eg. i will watch all their interviews, listen to all their songs, Until i feel I'm familiar with them, know enough. It starts off a casual interest, but i can get caught up in it. Like a snowball effect. Eventually the intensity burns out, and i drift towards a new interest. I figured I've learned everything i can. Yeah,satiated, that's the word. Not that I'm fickle. I'll revisit older interests I had. Almost rotate them. But my interest always expands. I guess this is an aspect of my personality that proves my diagnosis wasn't no fluke.

If I'm interested in a musician I ussually want to do what he/she does. I cannot just be read facts about a musician. As a musician myself I have to perform the music. And I think that is the difference. You talk about information and I talk about skills?
Special interests are about collecting tiems or reading informations and never about perfoming something?



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29 Dec 2021, 7:11 am

We should speak about it the way it is. Most people with autism are adults with a mild form of autism.

The stereotype of autism is that it's a childs disorder and usually low functioning. Parents of kids like this are the ones that need the most support so not surprisingly they're the most vocal but in doing so drown out the voices of the more "typical" autistic.