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thinkinginpictures
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06 Jan 2022, 10:38 am

Why is it that there have been made very few documentaries taking a critical look at the Bible, and the few that has been made are being removed from Youtube and you cannot watch them anywhere else?

One example is the Marketing the Messiah, explaining how Paul invented Christianity and that the gospels are of later origins, having been edited and censored.

Today that video was made private, for no reason.
It was shown on the Moconomy channel, and they were using it legally. All documentaries uploaded by the Moconomy channel are, as they say, legally uploaded. There are no copyright issues with them.

I suspect some Christians to have made some hateful comments against the channel, and that's why they took it down.

Of course, I don't know it - I'm just guessing. And I believe the vast majority of Christians would accept the documentary. Though, some few might be ruining for everybody else.

It could also be for other reasons it was taken down.



Last edited by thinkinginpictures on 06 Jan 2022, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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06 Jan 2022, 10:46 am

Why are you not asking the decision-makers at YouTube?

Why even trust anything on YouTube that is intended for anything other than entertainment?



thinkinginpictures
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06 Jan 2022, 10:55 am

Fnord wrote:
Why are you not asking the decision-makers at YouTube?

Why even trust anything on YouTube that is intended for anything other than entertainment?


I don't trust the host of that particular video, because I don't know him.
But I do trust logic and historical accuracy.

The video made perfect sense, from a logical and historical point of view.



Fnord
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06 Jan 2022, 10:57 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why are you not asking the decision-makers at YouTube?  Why even trust anything on YouTube that is intended for anything other than entertainment?
I don't trust the host of that particular video, because I don't know him.  But I do trust logic and historical accuracy.  The video made perfect sense, from a logical and historical point of view.
Did you not save the video?



thinkinginpictures
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06 Jan 2022, 11:06 am

Since the video was removed this is a summary of what was said:

1. The virgin birth story of Jesus is wrong. It is a later addition to the gospels.

3. Jesus is hebrew and means savior. Messiah means annointed. So the entire Jesus story is just a play on words.

4. The original Gospel of Mark did not include the resurrection story. It just ends with an empty tomb.
The gospel of Mark is the oldest gospel.

5. Paul is the one who should be given credit for making Christianity what it is, as he was the one who allowed gentiles into the early jewish sect of the Jesus movement, so they did not have to obey Jewish law.

The rest is censorship by the Roman popes, bishops etc. throwing away and burning various gospels which did not support the picture of Jesus they wanted to portray.

However, some gospel writers hid the gospels in the Egyptian desert. They're now known as the Gnostic Gospels, recovered in 1945, proving that in the year 300 there were many different christian groups, disagreeing over just about everything. Some say Jesus didn't die on the cross, others that Jesus let another one die for him.

In short, the Christianity we know today has become what it is ONLY because of censorship.



Last edited by thinkinginpictures on 06 Jan 2022, 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

thinkinginpictures
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06 Jan 2022, 11:07 am

Fnord wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why are you not asking the decision-makers at YouTube?  Why even trust anything on YouTube that is intended for anything other than entertainment?
I don't trust the host of that particular video, because I don't know him.  But I do trust logic and historical accuracy.  The video made perfect sense, from a logical and historical point of view.
Did you not save the video?


Is that legal?
Isn't that violating the copyright laws?



Fnord
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06 Jan 2022, 11:13 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Fnord wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why are you not asking the decision-makers at YouTube?  Why even trust anything on YouTube that is intended for anything other than entertainment?
I don't trust the host of that particular video, because I don't know him.  But I do trust logic and historical accuracy.  The video made perfect sense, from a logical and historical point of view.
Did you not save the video?
Is that legal?  Isn't that breaking the copyright laws?
I think saving a copy for personal reference, and NOT for sale, is covered under "Fair Use".  I could be wrong, though.

Have you looked for the same video on Archive.org?



thinkinginpictures
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06 Jan 2022, 11:20 am

Fnord wrote:
Have you looked for the same video on Archive.org?


I'm not using Archive.org

It's basically piracy, violating copyright by making stuff accessible to anyone without asking the owners beforehand.

I'd like to respect owners for their decisions. What I doubt in this case, is that it was a copyright take-down on youtube. I fear it was really a persecution and hate speech by religious communities against the owners of the video, causing them to take their video down.



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06 Jan 2022, 11:48 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Have you looked for the same video on Archive.org?
I'm not using Archive.org

It's basically piracy, violating copyright by making stuff accessible to anyone without asking the owners beforehand.  I'd like to respect owners for their decisions.  What I doubt in this case, is that it was a copyright take-down on youtube.  I fear it was really a persecution and hate speech by religious communities against the owners of the video, causing them to take their video down.
So far, everything I have seen at the Archive website is old.  For instance, the latest edition of Malvino's "Transistor Circuit Approximations" on that website is dated 1968.

There are a LOT of religious books and videos on that website, including Buddhist, Christian, Islam, and many others.



roronoa79
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06 Jan 2022, 2:08 pm

There are thousands, if not millions of anti-Christian or Christianity-critical videos on YT, so I find it hard to believe that was the sole reason.

It sounds like the historical suppressing of so-called heresies was more a matter of church censorship than Christian censorship. Still, there is a major lack of awareness of the history of Christian theology and how it was influenced by politics--especially among people who advertise themselves as True Christians who try to restore Early Christian Traditions and Beliefs (tm).


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thinkinginpictures
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06 Jan 2022, 4:07 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
There are thousands, if not millions of anti-Christian or Christianity-critical videos on YT, so I find it hard to believe that was the sole reason.

It sounds like the historical suppressing of so-called heresies was more a matter of church censorship than Christian censorship. Still, there is a major lack of awareness of the history of Christian theology and how it was influenced by politics--especially among people who advertise themselves as True Christians who try to restore Early Christian Traditions and Beliefs (tm).


I agree.

True Christians should know their own history.

I believe God exists. Somewhat.
I also believe in the teachings of Jesus, and want them applied to secular society.

But I don't subscribe to the beliefs about his resurrection, or that Jesus was God.
This is in part because of my understanding of Christian Theology and how it was developed.

The resurrection stories were disputed as early as in the second century, as was the virgin birth story.
Those who disputed it were Christians as well.

Perhaps this book is worth a read, by biblical scholar Bart D. Erhman:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/107 ... stianities

Quote:
The early Christian Church was a chaos of contending beliefs. Some groups of Christians claimed that there was not one God but two or twelve or thirty. Some believed that the world had not been created by God but by a lesser, ignorant deity. Certain sects maintained that Jesus was human but not divine, while others said he was divine but not human.


I've found another documentary:



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06 Jan 2022, 4:40 pm

Frankly, copyright law baffles me:
https://assassinate-you.net/posts/2020/ ... -takedown/
I just assume that, since the law decided it's OK to distribute a YT downloading utility, it's legal to use it for "fair use," and I assume that means creating a private copy of a video. But the law is so unclear and complicated that it's probably easier to just watch your back and use your own moral judgement about whether you're stealing in a bad way. It would seem wise to make a private copy of anything you think might be removed without just cause.

Without a smoking gun it's hard to know why the video was taken down. Wouldn't be the first time copyright had been used as a dishonest excuse to silence an idea, but without hearing from the owners, who knows? But the kind of thing in the said video is still readily available elsewhere. I've seen one or two TV programmes in the UK on a similar theme, one of which set out the theory that the resurrection story was cunningly added many years after the crucifixion. And there's a lot on the web about the historicity of the Jesus story that casts doubt on the scriptural versions. It's hard to find a trustworthy and sober source that's for or against the veracity of scripture, but some of them present strong arguments and externally-verifiable evidence that a lot of scripture is wrong. After studying the matter for many years, I was gradually convinced of that view. Frankly I've yet to find a source arguing for the veracity of religious doctrine that makes much sense.



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06 Jan 2022, 4:58 pm

There are tons of videos pro christianity, critical of christianity, and anti christianity, on Utube. No one is censoring any of it.

There is, or used to be, a free ap, that enabled you to rip audio and or video from utube. I would just type in "rip from Utube and there it would appear. The site would ask me if I wanted audio and video, or just audio. Since I only ever just wanted music I would always just check audio. And then I would add the audio of say...Miles Davis, and Chaka Khan, performing Micheal Jackson's "Human Nature" live at the Montreaux Jazz festival. But I coulda ripped the film as well as the audio had I wanted.



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06 Jan 2022, 7:16 pm

downloading stuff from youtube that's not public domain or creative commons is technically not legal, but in reality you -pr your browser- is downloading it in order to play it in the first place, which makes it a very grey area that's hard to disect - it's different from p2p networks, and it's not circumventing any DRM.
... no one dared to foght this one out in court, as far as I know


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09 Jan 2022, 9:34 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Why is it that there have been made very few documentaries taking a critical look at the Bible, and the few that has been made are being removed from Youtube and you cannot watch them anywhere else?

One example is the Marketing the Messiah, explaining how Paul invented Christianity and that the gospels are of later origins, having been edited and censored.

Today that video was made private, for no reason.
It was shown on the Moconomy channel, and they were using it legally. All documentaries uploaded by the Moconomy channel are, as they say, legally uploaded. There are no copyright issues with them.

I suspect some Christians to have made some hateful comments against the channel, and that's why they took it down.

Of course, I don't know it - I'm just guessing. And I believe the vast majority of Christians would accept the documentary. Though, some few might be ruining for everybody else.

It could also be for other reasons it was taken down.


If you go to YouTube and search for Marketing the Messiah, the first result as far as I can see seems to be the full 1hr40 documentary itself, hosted by a channel called WatchDoku. It has been up there for 6 months. It's pretty easy to find several other videos on YouTube critical of Christianity too, so I don't really understand why you're having difficulty finding them.

I don't know what happened to the copy hosted by Moconomy. Perhaps some Christians did mass report it and arranged for it to be taken down on some legal technicality. I somehow doubt the people at YouTube are going to be scared into action by a group of Christians simply claiming to be offended.