VP Harris Compares January 6th to Pearl Harbor & 9/11

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Jakki
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08 Jan 2022, 10:18 am

This thread has fallen victim to sensationalism and media hype I fear, which was the intended purpose of the Democrats and the Republicans I feel. In case any of you constitutional scholars wanted to think this thing through.
Please consider that Trump did not start any new wars or engage in invading another country during his term.
Please see : Emergency War Powers Act . ( Gives instant control of the Government)

As I had written earlier , there was NO coup process . There were demonstrators trying to disrupt a constitutional process . Any person engaged in a competent coup would not have engaged a civil protest to stage a coup. Generally you have several high ranking people in the military.Backing your actions and and you completely cutoff access
For the government to function politically . Senators and representatives are detained or arrested or even killed .
And deemed as traitors . Using military power is the only way to stage a functional coup . Seizing all functional political offices is also a big part of a coup .
Making outlandish comparisons to major historical events in which 100s if not thousands of Americans lost their lives is a obvious attempt at sensationalism, Which should give insight as to the character of people making such claims.


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Jakki
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08 Jan 2022, 11:01 am

Either the site is not keeping up with new posts or I am being censored in several threads 8O


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08 Jan 2022, 11:22 am

VegetableMan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Jakki wrote:
I might think that unless you were at Pearl Harbor back then , you might not be able to make that claim legitimately


Well in my time January 6th is the worst thing...people thought 9-11 was bad, and it was bad...but at least that wasn't traitors attacking their own country like January 6th.


What difference does it make whether the attacks come from within the government or without? How is a riot where four people died worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor which resulted in thousands of deaths?


More Americans died in the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 than died at Pearl Harbor and on 9-11 combined. But that doesnt make Pearl Harbor, or 9-11 trivial events.

Obviously comparing body counts is irrelevant to the point that Harris was making.

If Ben Ladin had somehow conquered the US without firing a shot, and without shedding any blood, but had then became dictator of the US ( and presumably laid down Sharia law)that would have been a bigger event then the actual 9-11 in which 3000 civilians died but the US wasnt even hobbled as a nation.

Ben Ladin did not conquer the US and become our ruler. Neither did the Axis powers in 1941. But had the rioters succeeded they would have lynched the Veep and overturned a free and fair election and would have installed Trump as our dictator, thereby ending two centuries of American democracy. Nothing like that has ever happened before in US history.

Thats a big deal. And the event means that we have a crossed the boundry line in time into a new era of history. Or thats what she meant. Its a reasonable statement to make.



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08 Jan 2022, 12:10 pm

Jakki wrote:
This thread has fallen victim to sensationalism and media hype I fear, which was the intended purpose of the Democrats and the Republicans I feel. In case any of you constitutional scholars wanted to think this thing through.
Please consider that Trump did not start any new wars or engage in invading another country during his term.
Please see : Emergency War Powers Act . ( Gives instant control of the Government)

As I had written earlier , there was NO coup process . There were demonstrators trying to disrupt a constitutional process . Any person engaged in a competent coup would not have engaged a civil protest to stage a coup. Generally you have several high ranking people in the military. Backing your actions and and you completely cutoff access
For the government to function politically . Senators and representatives are detained or arrested or even killed .
And deemed as traitors . Using military power is the only way to stage a functional coup . Seizing all functional political offices is also a big part of a coup .
Making outlandish comparisons to major historical events in which 100s if not thousands of Americans lost their lives is a obvious attempt at sensationalism, Which should give insight as to the character of people making such claims.


I completely agree with you. It's pure sensationalism over a demonstration that those in actual power stepped back and let take place.



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08 Jan 2022, 12:21 pm

Trump Derangement Syndrome has robbed too many people of their critical thinking skills. I'm not discounting the seriousness of the January 6 riot, but it's rather offensive to the thousands that died in the 9/11 attacks and Pear Harbor. There is simply no comparison.

Our Democracy was long ago subverted by corporate entities, but that's not a conversation is many on the left want to have. They don't want to acknowledge that we wouldn't gave gotten Trump in the first place if the rhe two major parties hadn't abandoned the American people. We should be more awake now, but the opposite is occurring. We're feeding the disease that spawned Trump with super foods


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08 Jan 2022, 1:06 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Trump Derangement Syndrome has robbed too many people of their critical thinking skills.
As has Fnord Derangement Syndrome.

Trump' coup attempt on 2021-01-06, Imperial Japan's attack on 1941-12-07, and the Muslim Extremists' attacks on 2001-09-11 were all attacks against America, Democracy, and Freedom.

The only "deranged" people in each case were the attackers, their leaders, their sponsors, and those who cheer them on.



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08 Jan 2022, 1:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Trump Derangement Syndrome has robbed too many people of their critical thinking skills.
As has Fnord Derangement Syndrome.

Trump' coup attempt on 2021-01-06, Imperial Japan's attack on 1941-12-07, and the Muslim Extremists' attacks on 2001-09-11 were all attacks against America, Democracy, and Freedom.

The only "deranged" people in each case were the attackers, their leaders, their sponsors, and those who cheer them on.


Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context. They are idiots, but so are the people who focus entirely on Trump without examining the path that led us here.


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08 Jan 2022, 1:56 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Trump Derangement Syndrome has robbed too many people of their critical thinking skills.
As has Fnord Derangement Syndrome.

Trump' coup attempt on 2021-01-06, Imperial Japan's attack on 1941-12-07, and the Muslim Extremists' attacks on 2001-09-11 were all attacks against America, Democracy, and Freedom.

The only "deranged" people in each case were the attackers, their leaders, their sponsors, and those who cheer them on.


Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context. They are idiots, but so are the people who focus entirely on Trump without examining the path that led us here.

Nah.
The rioters in the Black ghetto of Watts in 1965 had a "generalized rage".

The folks who stormed the capitol a year ago were egged on by the POTUS who had been defeated in an election to overturn that election. That is a fact. It was about overturning an election. There is no distortion, no sensationalism, and no derangement in that statement. Its a simple fact.

Focusing on Trump, and focusing "the path that got us to trump" are not only not mutually exclusive, they are both vital and go together.

====

I do agree that she shouldnt have SAID (it maybe a sane thing to think, but not a wise thing to say yet) that it was comparable to 9-11, or Pearl Harbor. No one can say this soon in history what event is comparable to what event. She could have toned it down and said "its comparable to the JFK assasination". A low body count, but still a shock to the nation.



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08 Jan 2022, 5:39 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
What difference does it make whether the attacks come from within the government or without? How is a riot where four people died worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor which resulted in thousands of deaths?


Cause it's an election year.


No, it's because a wanna-be strongman tried to subvert the will of the American electorate in order to retain power, and used brute force to achieve that goal. It was a domestic attack on our very system of government; one which might have ended America's experiment if free government.


It's a miracle they were able to fight off that heavily armed tactical militia.


I think Trump's White House henchmen and the riot organizers on the ground level probably wanted to avoid that degree of armed violence at all cost, so they could continue the fiction that this was a "peaceful demonstration."


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08 Jan 2022, 5:51 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).



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08 Jan 2022, 5:52 pm

Jakki wrote:
This thread has fallen victim to sensationalism and media hype I fear, which was the intended purpose of the Democrats and the Republicans I feel. In case any of you constitutional scholars wanted to think this thing through.
Please consider that Trump did not start any new wars or engage in invading another country during his term.
Please see : Emergency War Powers Act . ( Gives instant control of the Government)

As I had written earlier , there was NO coup process . There were demonstrators trying to disrupt a constitutional process . Any person engaged in a competent coup would not have engaged a civil protest to stage a coup. Generally you have several high ranking people in the military.Backing your actions and and you completely cutoff access
For the government to function politically . Senators and representatives are detained or arrested or even killed .
And deemed as traitors . Using military power is the only way to stage a functional coup . Seizing all functional political offices is also a big part of a coup .
Making outlandish comparisons to major historical events in which 100s if not thousands of Americans lost their lives is a obvious attempt at sensationalism, Which should give insight as to the character of people making such claims.


In fact, Michael Flynn's equally traitorous brother in the National Guard had withheld troops from stopping the rioters, till he was finally forced to by Pence. So yes, there was military backing. The reason why there was no other military personnel involved is because most of the generals saw Trump as a dangerous buffoon, and were determined to not comply with illegal orders from the orange messiah.
Both houses of congress WERE detained - - they were under siege by MAGA rioters who were threatening to lynch them if they didn't cancel the election results.
Peter Navarro, a higher up Trump henchman, has confirmed that this was all preplanned days before by Trump, his DC henchmen, and supporters like Steve Bannon and Alex Woods.
As for Trump having kept us out of war - - he had tried his damnedest to start a war with Iran in the days and weeks prior to the election, while the Chinese sincerely believed he was going to attack them in order to get reelected.
Sounds like a coup to me. Perhaps not one that would have worked, but only because Trump, and MAGA's in general, are hardly rocket scientists.


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Last edited by Kraichgauer on 08 Jan 2022, 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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08 Jan 2022, 5:52 pm

I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot how the right would cry how the left was trying to overthrow democratic principles (and wear the cloak of a martyr while doing so)



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08 Jan 2022, 5:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Both houses of congress WERE detained - - they were under siege by MAGA rioters who were threatening to lynch them if they didn't cancel the election results.


The testimonies of democrat congressmen and women of the terror they felt certainly is a stark reminder of how close they came to death at the hands of a mob who were vocally recorded calling for their lynching. The officer who killed Ashli Babbitt probably should be given a citation for turning back the tide of MAGAs who'se intentions were advertised loud and clear.

In stark contrast almost all the republican congress who's fat assess were also saved only provided mealy mouthed lip service to their constituents pretending the grievances of the mob were "legitimate" and the police response "excessive". I bet on Jan 6 they were equally terrified of the MAGAs, many of whom probably were from their home states and voted for them. Pathetic.



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08 Jan 2022, 6:00 pm

Aspinator wrote:
I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot how the right would cry how the left was trying to overthrow democratic principles (and wear the cloak of a martyr while doing so)


Almost inevitable



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08 Jan 2022, 6:44 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Tross wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Tross wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
It was more comical than infamous.


Perhaps. But because of the riot's failure, red states are passing anti-democratic laws that include not only suppressing voting rights for Americans deemed to be of the wrong color or political persuasion, but also gives state legislatures the right to throw out election results on the pretext of voter fraud. The coup is not yet over, and has been frighteningly better thought out this time.
That really is abuse of power. I hope the passing of those bills can be challenged.


What bills?
Are you insinuating they have yet to pass any to stipulate their restriction of voters? That's good to know, and hopefully they don't.


No, I think he is stating that he is unaware of the bills Kraichguaer mentioned.

A lot of people are.

Much of the public discussion on some of these bills never went past claiming they were intended to reduce voter fraud. You have to read the bills to see where the abuse of power hides.

But they have, in fact, passed.

Just a couple of limited examples, but there are many more like these:

In Texas, per a Texas Tribune article:

Quote:
It specifically targets voting initiatives used by diverse, Democratic Harris County, the state’s most populous, by banning overnight early voting hours and drive-thru voting — both of which proved popular among voters of color last year.

The new law also will ratchet up voting-by-mail rules in a state where the option is already significantly limited, give partisan poll watchers increased autonomy inside polling places by granting them free movement, and set new rules — and criminal penalties — for voter assistance. It also makes it a state jail felony for local election officials to proactively distribute applications for mail-in ballots, even if they are providing them to voters who automatically qualify to vote by mail or groups helping get out the vote.


Basically, attempts to curtail voting by minorities more likely to be Democrats.

In Georgia, per CBS News (not my favorite source, but I've heard this else where and this was the first article to come up on Google):

Quote:
State election board will have new powers and won't be chaired by the secretary of state

The five-person state election board will no longer be chaired by the secretary of state, who now becomes a "non voting ex officio member." GOP Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger has been at the center of attacks by fellow Republicans for pushing back against attacks from former President Trump.

The chair and board members will be elected by the General Assembly, giving more power to the Republican-controlled state legislature. But no members of the board may serve simultaneously in the state legislature. And while elected by the legislature, the chair is supposed to be non-partisan. The new law prohibits the chair from actively participating in a political party or organization, donating to a political campaign, or running for public office during his or her service and in the two years preceding the term as chair.

The state election board has new powers over local election officials. It can, for instance, suspend county or municipal superintendents based on performance or violation of election board rules, after first conducting a preliminary investigation and hearing. It may then appoint temporary replacements, but it can't suspend more than four officials.


This is particularly scary, because it changes what used to be a non-partisan function with limited powers into a more partisan one with more extensive powers.
Ah I see. Well, if they're not even pretending to run anything resembling a democracy anymore, what's the point of having elections? They'll pretty much be no more than a formality like they are in some countries that pretend to be democracies. :roll:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
I was just asking what bills you're referring to.
Ah, I see. Yeah, the ones DW a mom outlined. Tough times are ahead for the US, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone can challenge those bills because they should be deemed unconstitutional.



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08 Jan 2022, 7:09 pm

cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


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