VP Harris Compares January 6th to Pearl Harbor & 9/11

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Kraichgauer
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08 Jan 2022, 7:19 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


Fascism lurking in the shadow of the American dream, hiding itself behind the flag and the cross.


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08 Jan 2022, 7:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
What is the disease?
Fascism lurking in the shadow of the American dream, hiding itself behind the flag and the cross.
And calling itself "Patriotism".



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08 Jan 2022, 7:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


Fascism lurking in the shadow of the American dream, hiding itself behind the flag and the cross.


Define fascism and the components in our system that has led us here?


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08 Jan 2022, 7:41 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Jakki wrote:
I might think that unless you were at Pearl Harbor back then , you might not be able to make that claim legitimately


Well in my time January 6th is the worst thing...people thought 9-11 was bad, and it was bad...but at least that wasn't traitors attacking their own country like January 6th.


What difference does it make whether the attacks come from within the government or without? How is a riot where four people died worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor which resulted in thousands of deaths?


More Americans died in the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 than died at Pearl Harbor and on 9-11 combined. But that doesnt make Pearl Harbor, or 9-11 trivial events.

Obviously comparing body counts is irrelevant to the point that Harris was making.

If Ben Ladin had somehow conquered the US without firing a shot, and without shedding any blood, but had then became dictator of the US ( and presumably laid down Sharia law)that would have been a bigger event then the actual 9-11 in which 3000 civilians died but the US wasnt even hobbled as a nation.

Ben Ladin did not conquer the US and become our ruler. Neither did the Axis powers in 1941. But had the rioters succeeded they would have lynched the Veep and overturned a free and fair election and would have installed Trump as our dictator, thereby ending two centuries of American democracy. Nothing like that has ever happened before in US history.

Thats a big deal. And the event means that we have a crossed the boundry line in time into a new era of history. Or thats what she meant. Its a reasonable statement to make.


The events of January 6th where more of a threat to our democracy than 9-11 and pearl harbor, that is what I am getting at for sure.

I realize the death count was much higher for pearl harbor and 9-11, but neither of those really put our democracy at risk.

Of course our response to pearl harbor with the nukes led to many more civilian deaths than the pearl harbor attack did.


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08 Jan 2022, 7:56 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


According to a group of psychiatrists there are two major emotional drives for Trump supporters: narcissistic symbiosis and shared psychosis.

Narcissistic symbiosis refers to the developmental wounds that make the leader-follower relationship magnetically attractive. The leader, hungry for adulation to compensate for an inner lack of self-worth, projects grandiose omnipotence—while the followers, rendered needy by societal stress or developmental injury, yearn for a parental figure. When such wounded individuals are given positions of power, they arouse similar pathology in the population that creates a “lock and key” relationship.

“Shared psychosis”—which is also called “folie à millions” [“madness for millions”] when occurring at the national level or “induced delusions”—refers to the infectiousness of severe symptoms that goes beyond ordinary group psychology. When a highly symptomatic individual is placed in an influential position, the person’s symptoms can spread through the population through emotional bonds, heightening existing pathologies and inducing delusions, paranoia and propensity for violence—even in previously healthy individuals. The treatment is removal of exposure.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... loyalists/



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08 Jan 2022, 8:04 pm

Well, you're still talking about a symptom of the disease. I want to get to the actual roots of this disease. Anybody?


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08 Jan 2022, 8:06 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


Fascism lurking in the shadow of the American dream, hiding itself behind the flag and the cross.


Define fascism and the components in our system that has led us here?


Fascism of course rides in on extreme nationalism, militarism, a cult of personality revolving around a father-leader figure, and the demonization of enemies both within and outside the nation, among other things.
Fascism seems to be the often ignored second face of western civilization, always ready to come out and make itself known. Remember, Germany is a part of the west, and yet they were overtaken by fascism when the people were convinced the current system was broken beyond repair, and had to be replaced.


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08 Jan 2022, 8:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


Fascism lurking in the shadow of the American dream, hiding itself behind the flag and the cross.


Ever notice what image is invoked whenever "all American" or the "girl next door" is invoked? It's pretty clear what republicans think of when they think of a patriot or all american, or the family next door/girl next door.



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08 Jan 2022, 8:15 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Well, you're still talking about a symptom of the disease. I want to get to the actual roots of this disease. Anybody?


The disease that leads to the shared narcissism and psychosis is the belief in erosion of the white American dream constructed during the 1950s and eroded with the civil rights era, erosion of the power of the church, mass immigration, minority rights (gays/women) and globalisation. This paranoia started happening as soon as white America became comfortable behind their white picket fences in their all white neighborhoods checking under their beds for reds and the fear their kids would have to go to school with blacks.



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08 Jan 2022, 10:41 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


Fascism lurking in the shadow of the American dream, hiding itself behind the flag and the cross.


Ever notice what image is invoked whenever "all American" or the "girl next door" is invoked? It's pretty clear what republicans think of when they think of a patriot or all american, or the family next door/girl next door.


I seriously doubt that "girl next door" looks at all like Rhianna or Kamala Harris.


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08 Jan 2022, 10:54 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Trump henchman peter Navarro says the purpose of the riot was to force Pence and congress to reject the election outcome, with the intention of sending it back to the states where Trump supporters would be put into place as electors. On top of that, Michael Flynn's equally moronic brother in the National Guard had withheld troop support to aid the besieged capitol, in the explicit attempt to leave Pence and congress members at the mercy of the rioters in order to force a rejection of the Presidential election.
That sounds like an attempted coup to me.
Sure, the cretins who had been behind the riot, as well as the idiot rioters themselves, had all gone home to eat dinner afterward. But we've since seen that they aren't getting away with it.


Yet again, you don't have anything showing that Trump somehow ordered the riot or controlled it in any way, let alone attempted to use it to seize power; if that was his aim, you'd expect him to be doing something like working the phones trying to build support for all of these supposed maneuvers he was using to retain power, not sitting on the couch watching TV and tweeting. The real not so smoking gun in the whole "Trump wanted to seize power and be an authoritarian" theory is the fact that he had the perfect excuse in COVID, he had Democrats screaming at him to be more authoritarian, and in fact if he'd wanted to seize power he couldn't have concocted a better excuse in his wildest dreams, but he didn't, and that has to be reckoned with in how his later actions are viewed.


Constantly making the claim that the election was stolen inspired the attempted insurrection. He knew exactly what he was doing. The people participating directly stated such. There was also plenty of talk going on behind closed doors. It's all out there. I'm assuming you're choosing to ignore it.

Also, comparing government forcing certain things for the common good to a narcissistic melomaniac desiring to overturn an election because he cannot accept a loss is beyond the pale.



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08 Jan 2022, 11:08 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


Fascism lurking in the shadow of the American dream, hiding itself behind the flag and the cross.


Ever notice what image is invoked whenever "all American" or the "girl next door" is invoked? It's pretty clear what republicans think of when they think of a patriot or all american, or the family next door/girl next door.


I seriously doubt that "girl next door" looks at all like Rhianna or Kamala Harris.


Exactly my point. This stuff is very deeply ingrained in the republican mind. Just google images using the search term "girl next door"....it's scary



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08 Jan 2022, 11:28 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Nah, they were just folks who had a generalized rage against a system that through them overboard 40 years ago without any historical context.


err wait....don't they also claim to be defenders of the American constitution and freedoms? you cant have it both ways, they want to defend the foundations of democracy against the "tyranny" of the left but essentially tried their best to destroy the edifice of democracy on Jan 6. And no...they aren't a rag tag bunch of nutters because the majority of republicans believe their fantasies.

The disease is in the indoctrination of the millions....the symptoms of the disease is the election of Trump. Trump was a symptom, getting rid of him hasn't cured America of the disease (and no I'm not talking about COVID).


What is the disease?


Fascism lurking in the shadow of the American dream, hiding itself behind the flag and the cross.


Ever notice what image is invoked whenever "all American" or the "girl next door" is invoked? It's pretty clear what republicans think of when they think of a patriot or all american, or the family next door/girl next door.


I seriously doubt that "girl next door" looks at all like Rhianna or Kamala Harris.


Exactly my point. This stuff is very deeply ingrained in the republican mind. Just google images using the search term "girl next door"....it's scary


Again, another symptom of fascism is the demonization of "the other." That is, those who supposedly don't fit with the accepted national ethnic type.


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09 Jan 2022, 2:01 am

For those defending the rioters
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/28/poli ... index.html

Clearly an indicator of how dangerous they were and what they were planning as a group. This woman wasn't some lone wolf, she was hyped by her fellow rioters and looters who espoused similar sentiment toward Nancy Pelosi.



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09 Jan 2022, 2:03 am

cyberdad wrote:
For those defending the rioters
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/28/poli ... index.html

Clearly an indicator of how dangerous they were and what they were planning as a group. This woman wasn't some lone wolf, she was hyped by her fellow rioters and looters who espoused similar sentiment toward Nancy Pelosi.


I'm sure they'll say she's only using "hyperbole."


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09 Jan 2022, 2:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
For those defending the rioters
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/28/poli ... index.html

Clearly an indicator of how dangerous they were and what they were planning as a group. This woman wasn't some lone wolf, she was hyped by her fellow rioters and looters who espoused similar sentiment toward Nancy Pelosi.


I'm sure they'll say she's only using "hyperbole."


Of course.