Page 1 of 2 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Technic1
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

Joined: 2 Apr 2021
Posts: 417
Location: Universe

07 Jan 2022, 7:36 am

im trying to improve.



Edna3362
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,364
Location: ᜆᜄᜎᜓᜄ᜔

07 Jan 2022, 8:04 am

Not all of them.
Because not all aspies have this NVLD like (higher verbal IQ than performance IQ) profiles.

Even I'm trying to improve.

Also, speech isn't the same as language or communication.
The main issues around autism is communication, and not necessarily about language or speech causing it.


_________________
Gained Number Post Count (1).
Lose Time (n).

Lose more time here - Updates at least once a week.


HighLlama
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,017

07 Jan 2022, 8:10 am

It can also be situational. I'm much more eloquent in writing than when speaking. Speaking takes a much bigger (physical) effort. Similarly, my handwriting looks pretty good with the right pen/paper/pressure, but absolutely terrible in the wrong conditions.



AprilR
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Apr 2016
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,518

07 Jan 2022, 10:54 am

I am not very good at expressing myself be it in writing or speaking. I struggled with it a lot in my job too since it involved lots of writing.
Reading a lot and keeping a journal helped.
I am good at learning foreign languages however.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

07 Jan 2022, 10:58 am

I express myself better in writing than in speaking.  There is something about the stress of being unable to edit what I have just spoken that makes speaking progressively worse and writing actually fun!



HighLlama
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,017

07 Jan 2022, 11:14 am

Fnord wrote:
I express myself better in writing than in speaking.  There is something about the stress of being unable to edit what I have just spoken that makes speaking progressively worse and writing actually fun!


Yeah, writing is like making a collage or mosaic to me--building something out of different pieces, and enjoying when it sits just right. Whereas speaking is like trying to drive while someone else works the pedals.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

07 Jan 2022, 11:26 am

Writing affords me the luxury of building a thesis to a final conclusion that speaking simply does not.



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

07 Jan 2022, 12:50 pm

I struggle with my vocabulary, it doesn't really hinder my communication with NTs but it does sometimes affect how I word my posts here, as I see other members using 'big words' to get their point understood. Also when writing stories I'm not very good at using big words so my stories usually sound simple.

I'm no good at learning foreign languages, in fact I don't know how the hell people do it.


_________________
Female


CrisChalcedony
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 15 Nov 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 26
Location: Seattle

07 Jan 2022, 4:32 pm

Depends! Like some others have said, I'm a much better writer. There seems to be a longstanding myth that anyone on the spectrum is bad at language, which isn't true. It's communication we tend to have trouble with. I didn't realize for a long time that there was a difference. I love words and writing, but NTs misunderstand me all the time when I speak. It's really frustrating.



autisticelders
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2020
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,946
Location: Alpena MI

07 Jan 2022, 4:58 pm

some yes, some no. Struggles with communication are one of the hallmarks of autism. It is one of the things we must have in order to get diagnosed. That doesn't mean that some of us are not good at language, but it doesn't mean that we all are- one way or the other. Depends on the individual.


_________________
https://oldladywithautism.blog/

"Curiosity is one of the permanent and certain characteristics of a vigorous intellect.” Samuel Johnson


KMCIURA
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 6 Jan 2022
Gender: Male
Posts: 141

07 Jan 2022, 5:47 pm

Being good or bad in field of language skills is not something typical for people with Asperger's. It's true that there's a correlation between dyslexia and AS - in turn, higher percentage of us struggle with use of language. But then you have people like me, who have no "real" problem with language skills. I work as a copywriter and even read much faster than average person.

One issue I would like to point at is how often a wrong dyslexia diagnosis can be given to individual on the spectrum based on factors that have similar results. My own case is a good example of that. Like many people with AS, I have mixed lateralization.

For most people, the left hemisphere of the brain is dominant, also for language and makes them right-handed. In truly left handed people, this is mirrored. Because centre of motor skills responsible for hand dominance and one responsible for processing language are located in the same hemisphere, the communication between them is very efficient, making it easy for them to write fast and with good handwriting.

But take someone like me, with mixed lateralization. It is all over the place: I write and draw with my left hand, because it is orders of magnitude more precise at these tasks than my right hand. But it is almost worthless at others, like using scissors, knife, throwing etc. all of which I do with my right hand, which is also stronger. I kick with right foot, my left eye is dominant in certain tasks like reading or looking at the road while driving, but right one is dominant when I am aiming a rifle, for example. I do not have preference of direction of spin (most people find it easier to spin to left or right).

Thus, I can safely assume that my centre of motor skills responsible for handwriting, hand and eye coordination and language skills are NOT located in one hemisphere. A simple task of writing something down engages whole brain and is not as efficient as it could be if things would be "normal" for me. This results in poor, slow handwriting, which I couldn't really train over the years. What is even worse, I do not have a handwriting style set in stone - it may vary greatly between days and things like thickness of the pen, slippiness of paper and so on affect it to a high degree.

Another thing is that as a child, I just couldn't understand why orthography is important. I am Polish and our language is very quirky in this area. For example, we have cases of two letters in our alphabet (it is a modified version of Latin alphabet) for the same sound, with pretty arbitrary rules in which words to use them (well, these are based on historical origin of these words, but still). We also have letters which sound exactly like some syllables. I have always perceived the data which language carries being much more important than language itself. So I just couldn't bring myself to memorise all of these rules, when they make no functional difference when it comes to transferring certain message. My mind, subconsciously, scrapped this "unnecessary" knowledge.

Couple this with poor handwriting and there you have it - I was diagnosed with dyslexia as a kid. But this turned out to be simply untrue, as over the years I've trained myself and apart from being bad at writing by hand, there are zero issues with my language skills. A truly dyslectic person would have a hard time making progress in this area, as their brain structure stands in the way.

Other than that? A lot of people with AS tend to use overly formal, technical or even scientific language. In fact, most of us have "atypical" language skills development. Once again, this does not mean that we are unable to speak "normally" - we certainly are, but to put it simply, we learned language in a different way due to differences in how our brains function vs those of regular people. In addition, it is impacted by factors like:

-Seeking the most efficient/shortest words with highest degree of precision to transfer certain information in optimally compressed way. For example, saying "this medication caused an eosinophilia" rather than "this medication caused a high level of white blood cells type which is associated with allergic reaction".

-Intense pursuit of narrow interests. If you are constantly binging on data focused around one field, you are absorbing language used in that field and in turn, use it yourself, simple as that.

-Not being into Belles-lettres. A lot of us find this type of literature extremely boring, as it is mostly about interactions between people and their feelings. Many people with AS prefer to read more scientific oriented stuff, where no one is having business of making it beautiful, which impacts the way they speak. This results in people feeling that we speak in "dry", even passively-aggressive manner.

-Verbose. This is something present in a part of population of people with AS and boils down to forming overly long and unusually specific statements...as you have probably guessed by now, I am having it :lol: I must restrain myself from bombarding people with information they just won't memorise. When I was working as a business analysts, my emails were feared because I was always writing pages of texts. Why? Because I wanted to write down every single possible scenario/solution I could think of in there, then trying to answer any potential questions in advance. My bosses praised me for my analytical skills and ability to think "out of the box". But rolled their eyes when they had to read another email of mine.

Most of us are bad at figurative language and tend to take what people say literally (and use language in such way).

But in the end, there are individuals on the spectrum, whose language skills are more severely impaired. I've recently read about a case of a boy, who is not talking at all, but knows two languages, communicates only via writing and tends to be VERY picky with whom he participates in conversations with. Apparently, it took him a long time to approach his parents directly - the first person he ever wrote to was his therapist. Of course, he is autistic - but remember, the spectrum is "analogue" in practice, not made of hard-edged, separate steps. So it is possible for an individual with AS to face more challenges in this area.

Even if you are having a hard time expressing yourself via or learning language and consider yourself at below-average level, it is perfectly possible to make improvement. It will take time and practice. Read a lot and most importantly - write a lot. Also, it is good if you'll focus these activities around things you like.

Bringing up my own example once again, when I was a kid and went to English classes, I've made only mediocre progress. But this has changed when my dad brought a copy of Fallout 2 game to our house. It is an post-apocalyptic cRPG released in 1996, with a lot of text (only few characters in the whole game are voiced!). Being a huge fan of Mad Max movies and post-apo themes in books at the time, I desperately wanted to play the game. The issue was - it was all in English. A translation to Polish came almost a decade after the release of the original game. So what I did? I took an English-Polish dictionary and every English-Polish phrase book I could find at home (we didn't had Internet access yet, so I was not able to use any online dictionaries).

Armed with those, I sat in front of computer, launched the game and started playing it while translating its menu, options, controls, dialogues, everything. Word after word, sentence after sentence. I've started to pick up the language at so rapid pace that by the end of the semester, I was so ahead the rest of the class that my teacher has started to prepare more advanced, individual exercises for me. For the rest of the education, I've learned the language more "organically" via consuming media, books and articles in English as well as participating in international discussion groups about subjects of my interests. I even prepared to verbal part of my exam to acquire secondary school certificate by watching The Simpsons and Futurama in original voice acting versions on streams via Winamp.

While I am fairly proficient at using English, even thought I've never even been to UK, US, Australia or any other country where it is an official, dominant, main language, I am simply hopeless when it comes to grammar. If you would ask me what are the tenses I've just used to write this overly long post, I wouldn't name a single one. I am not able to specify the rules. I simply think with English language in mind when communicating by using it, and it just flows. Same goes for my Polish.

If you have someone neurotypical whom you can engage into more deep, lengthy conversations about topics of your interests - ask them to give you feedback about what can you improve in the way you express your thoughts.

Remember - we are different, not dumb. There is zero reason to give up on improving your language skills. Couple learning process with things you are passionate about and I'm sure that progress will be significant and at a good pace.



JimJohn
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 20 Dec 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 366

07 Jan 2022, 7:34 pm

AprilR wrote:
I am not very good at expressing myself be it in writing or speaking. I struggled with it a lot in my job too since it involved lots of writing.
Reading a lot and keeping a journal helped.
I am good at learning foreign languages however.


I'm good at learning languages through study and not so much with immersion. I'm not diagnosed. It is one of those things that make me think I'm different.



JimJohn
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 20 Dec 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 366

07 Jan 2022, 7:36 pm

KMCIURA wrote:
Being good or bad in field of language skills is not something typical for people with Asperger's. It's true that there's a correlation between dyslexia and AS - in turn, higher percentage of us struggle with use of language. But then you have people like me, who have no "real" problem with language skills. I work as a copywriter and even read much faster than average person.

One issue I would like to point at is how often a wrong dyslexia diagnosis can be given to individual on the spectrum based on factors that have similar results. My own case is a good example of that. Like many people with AS, I have mixed lateralization.

For most people, the left hemisphere of the brain is dominant, also for language and makes them right-handed. In truly left handed people, this is mirrored. Because centre of motor skills responsible for hand dominance and one responsible for processing language are located in the same hemisphere, the communication between them is very efficient, making it easy for them to write fast and with good handwriting.

But take someone like me, with mixed lateralization. It is all over the place: I write and draw with my left hand, because it is orders of magnitude more precise at these tasks than my right hand. But it is almost worthless at others, like using scissors, knife, throwing etc. all of which I do with my right hand, which is also stronger. I kick with right foot, my left eye is dominant in certain tasks like reading or looking at the road while driving, but right one is dominant when I am aiming a rifle, for example. I do not have preference of direction of spin (most people find it easier to spin to left or right).

Thus, I can safely assume that my centre of motor skills responsible for handwriting, hand and eye coordination and language skills are NOT located in one hemisphere. A simple task of writing something down engages whole brain and is not as efficient as it could be if things would be "normal" for me. This results in poor, slow handwriting, which I couldn't really train over the years. What is even worse, I do not have a handwriting style set in stone - it may vary greatly between days and things like thickness of the pen, slippiness of paper and so on affect it to a high degree.

Another thing is that as a child, I just couldn't understand why orthography is important. I am Polish and our language is very quirky in this area. For example, we have cases of two letters in our alphabet (it is a modified version of Latin alphabet) for the same sound, with pretty arbitrary rules in which words to use them (well, these are based on historical origin of these words, but still). We also have letters which sound exactly like some syllables. I have always perceived the data which language carries being much more important than language itself. So I just couldn't bring myself to memorise all of these rules, when they make no functional difference when it comes to transferring certain message. My mind, subconsciously, scrapped this "unnecessary" knowledge.

Couple this with poor handwriting and there you have it - I was diagnosed with dyslexia as a kid. But this turned out to be simply untrue, as over the years I've trained myself and apart from being bad at writing by hand, there are zero issues with my language skills. A truly dyslectic person would have a hard time making progress in this area, as their brain structure stands in the way.

Other than that? A lot of people with AS tend to use overly formal, technical or even scientific language. In fact, most of us have "atypical" language skills development. Once again, this does not mean that we are unable to speak "normally" - we certainly are, but to put it simply, we learned language in a different way due to differences in how our brains function vs those of regular people. In addition, it is impacted by factors like:

-Seeking the most efficient/shortest words with highest degree of precision to transfer certain information in optimally compressed way. For example, saying "this medication caused an eosinophilia" rather than "this medication caused a high level of white blood cells type which is associated with allergic reaction".

-Intense pursuit of narrow interests. If you are constantly binging on data focused around one field, you are absorbing language used in that field and in turn, use it yourself, simple as that.

-Not being into Belles-lettres. A lot of us find this type of literature extremely boring, as it is mostly about interactions between people and their feelings. Many people with AS prefer to read more scientific oriented stuff, where no one is having business of making it beautiful, which impacts the way they speak. This results in people feeling that we speak in "dry", even passively-aggressive manner.

-Verbose. This is something present in a part of population of people with AS and boils down to forming overly long and unusually specific statements...as you have probably guessed by now, I am having it :lol: I must restrain myself from bombarding people with information they just won't memorise. When I was working as a business analysts, my emails were feared because I was always writing pages of texts. Why? Because I wanted to write down every single possible scenario/solution I could think of in there, then trying to answer any potential questions in advance. My bosses praised me for my analytical skills and ability to think "out of the box". But rolled their eyes when they had to read another email of mine.

Most of us are bad at figurative language and tend to take what people say literally (and use language in such way).

But in the end, there are individuals on the spectrum, whose language skills are more severely impaired. I've recently read about a case of a boy, who is not talking at all, but knows two languages, communicates only via writing and tends to be VERY picky with whom he participates in conversations with. Apparently, it took him a long time to approach his parents directly - the first person he ever wrote to was his therapist. Of course, he is autistic - but remember, the spectrum is "analogue" in practice, not made of hard-edged, separate steps. So it is possible for an individual with AS to face more challenges in this area.

Even if you are having a hard time expressing yourself via or learning language and consider yourself at below-average level, it is perfectly possible to make improvement. It will take time and practice. Read a lot and most importantly - write a lot. Also, it is good if you'll focus these activities around things you like.

Bringing up my own example once again, when I was a kid and went to English classes, I've made only mediocre progress. But this has changed when my dad brought a copy of Fallout 2 game to our house. It is an post-apocalyptic cRPG released in 1996, with a lot of text (only few characters in the whole game are voiced!). Being a huge fan of Mad Max movies and post-apo themes in books at the time, I desperately wanted to play the game. The issue was - it was all in English. A translation to Polish came almost a decade after the release of the original game. So what I did? I took an English-Polish dictionary and every English-Polish phrase book I could find at home (we didn't had Internet access yet, so I was not able to use any online dictionaries).

Armed with those, I sat in front of computer, launched the game and started playing it while translating its menu, options, controls, dialogues, everything. Word after word, sentence after sentence. I've started to pick up the language at so rapid pace that by the end of the semester, I was so ahead the rest of the class that my teacher has started to prepare more advanced, individual exercises for me. For the rest of the education, I've learned the language more "organically" via consuming media, books and articles in English as well as participating in international discussion groups about subjects of my interests. I even prepared to verbal part of my exam to acquire secondary school certificate by watching The Simpsons and Futurama in original voice acting versions on streams via Winamp.

While I am fairly proficient at using English, even thought I've never even been to UK, US, Australia or any other country where it is an official, dominant, main language, I am simply hopeless when it comes to grammar. If you would ask me what are the tenses I've just used to write this overly long post, I wouldn't name a single one. I am not able to specify the rules. I simply think with English language in mind when communicating by using it, and it just flows. Same goes for my Polish.

If you have someone neurotypical whom you can engage into more deep, lengthy conversations about topics of your interests - ask them to give you feedback about what can you improve in the way you express your thoughts.

Remember - we are different, not dumb. There is zero reason to give up on improving your language skills. Couple learning process with things you are passionate about and I'm sure that progress will be significant and at a good pace.


I'm bilateral.



AnonymousAnonymous
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 69,878
Location: Portland, Oregon

11 Jan 2022, 5:53 pm

There are obviously many online programs that can help you improve your skills.

Duolingo is a popular online program that can help you improve.


_________________
Silly NTs, I have Aspergers, and having Aspergers is gr-r-reat!


Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

12 Jan 2022, 5:51 pm

Others seemed to have answered this one well.

I'm not very good at spontaneous speech over things I haven't prepared to talk about or I'm not well versed on (small talk for the latter for example), and everyone will notice something off about me in the way I talk in those situations very quickly (everyone does there, and I tend to hear that one second hand). I sometimes stutter in these spontaneous situations. Collecting thoughts with a pause, speaking slowly and thoughtfully, and I can get points across. It took me a long time to speak, read and write compared to peers, but I got there.

I'll still appear fairly normal, just slow.

I can lecture fine verbally.



Aprilviolets
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,059

12 Jan 2022, 9:30 pm

I tried to learn Auslan ( australian sign language) but I found it difficult because I couldn't do the facial expressions and the class was too big, so I gave up in the end I can still do some signs but that's all.