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Jakki
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10 Jan 2022, 10:47 am

Have read in a variety of places that Aspies brains do not or do not appear to do Neural pruning well .
Am thinking this can present quite an issue , if serious or traumatic events are not able to drop off the person memory or be forgotten. But It maybe a great asset if your a historian or a engineer . But if you are a survivor of repeated episodes of PTSD and they have been densely scattered through your life experiences . This could contribute to a higher than normal mortality . And am dealing with such a situation myself. One of my best methods to interrupt the process has been media . Videos specifically. But the TV and things like Netscape are full of violence.
And violent media can be a memory trigger for those past events .
Have watched most all things related to documentaries that they offer . And repeats do not help. If they do not keep your attention , You end up replaying scenes that you have lived through from prior awful things you have been through. Many that never came close to resolution, even leaving threats of repeating themselves in your mind.
I am kinda seeking suggestions for dealing with this situation . Even at one time had considered ECT but that is not selective in which parts of your brain / memory that treatment destroys . Am physically disabled so , not able to do
Normal video games and am limited on my physical stamina. Any thoughts please.?
? Keep them polite please .?


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txfz1
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10 Jan 2022, 11:05 am

I called this memory blocking and think NTs can block memories or let them fade away. I seem to tuck my memories away and recall when I want but triggers will also bring them out to be dealt with. Could this be a result of having good long term memory but bad short term memory?



CrisChalcedony
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10 Jan 2022, 3:02 pm

Yeah, this is a huge issue for me and counseling with NT counselors hasn't helped because they just don't understand my brain can't do the things they suggest. If reading is something that helps you, I'd highly suggest the book Living With PTSD on the Autism Spectrum by Lisa Morgan and Mary Donahue. It helped me put into words things I'd been living with all my life but was unable to explain.

Unfortunately, it seems like because everyone's autism is different (and everyone's PTSD is different, for that matter), it's hard to give good advice about what works to help when you get "stuck" in one of these episodes. I tried for years doing the "calming activities" NT professionals told me to do like coloring, jigsaw puzzles, etc and it didn't work because, like you mentioned with your videos, it didn't engage my mind enough to stop the constant return to the bad memories. Like you, I tried every documentary I could find too, haha. I like some cartoons (not anime for adults, but cartoons for kids) because they're generally less hurtful and the bright colors and sometimes the auditory effects are soothing stims.

Every counselor I've tried insists mindfulness and meditation are the answers to this PTSD problem, but traditional techniques don't work for me and so far no professionals have been willing to work with me to find a technique that does. They just say that their way is the only way, and if I'm not willing to do it that way they quit.

I'm trying at the moment to unpack (on my own) exactly what meditation is doing in the brain, and then find a nontraditional way to do that, something that works for me. This article: https://www.autismandmindfulness.org/wp ... vocate.pdf was where I started. For me, because I'm SO clumsy and any sort of movement/exercise takes so much concentration, walking helps stop that "obsessive" part of my brain. But obviously that won't work for you. I've also found a combination of Intuniv and Adderall to be partially helpful, but again, that's really subjective. "Emotion-deadening" is a common side-effect of stimulant meds for people with ADHD and they don't consider it a good thing, but for me it's exactly what I wanted. It "lowers the volume" on the emotional pain of these episodes, and shortens their duration.

Filling a sink with ice water (literally with ice in it) and then dunking your face in it is actually an evidence-based quick-cure if you catch yourself having an episode. Google "dive reflex" and you can find an explanation. Sometimes it works for me. Sometimes not.

I'm never happy to hear other people have this debilitating issue, but it may help to hear you're not alone in it?



Jakki
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10 Jan 2022, 4:21 pm

Thank you so much, you seem to have a good understanding of the situation, and I appreciate you sharing your experiences, very much . Your insights are good, have been through a whole lot of Psyche people and therapists and medications over the years . The idea of the ice in your face sounds very effective . For a long time was drinking iced slurped from Quicky marts and giving myself intentional brain freeze to help clear my brain. Thank you for responding . Am curious about adderall idea .
And can appreciate the other responses here a lot , cause it really helps not to feel alone in this ..


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HighLlama
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10 Jan 2022, 5:14 pm

CrisChalcedony wrote:
Yeah, this is a huge issue for me and counseling with NT counselors hasn't helped because they just don't understand my brain can't do the things they suggest. If reading is something that helps you, I'd highly suggest the book Living With PTSD on the Autism Spectrum by Lisa Morgan and Mary Donahue. It helped me put into words things I'd been living with all my life but was unable to explain.

Unfortunately, it seems like because everyone's autism is different (and everyone's PTSD is different, for that matter), it's hard to give good advice about what works to help when you get "stuck" in one of these episodes. I tried for years doing the "calming activities" NT professionals told me to do like coloring, jigsaw puzzles, etc and it didn't work because, like you mentioned with your videos, it didn't engage my mind enough to stop the constant return to the bad memories. Like you, I tried every documentary I could find too, haha. I like some cartoons (not anime for adults, but cartoons for kids) because they're generally less hurtful and the bright colors and sometimes the auditory effects are soothing stims.

Every counselor I've tried insists mindfulness and meditation are the answers to this PTSD problem, but traditional techniques don't work for me and so far no professionals have been willing to work with me to find a technique that does. They just say that their way is the only way, and if I'm not willing to do it that way they quit.

I'm trying at the moment to unpack (on my own) exactly what meditation is doing in the brain, and then find a nontraditional way to do that, something that works for me. This article: https://www.autismandmindfulness.org/wp ... vocate.pdf was where I started. For me, because I'm SO clumsy and any sort of movement/exercise takes so much concentration, walking helps stop that "obsessive" part of my brain. But obviously that won't work for you. I've also found a combination of Intuniv and Adderall to be partially helpful, but again, that's really subjective. "Emotion-deadening" is a common side-effect of stimulant meds for people with ADHD and they don't consider it a good thing, but for me it's exactly what I wanted. It "lowers the volume" on the emotional pain of these episodes, and shortens their duration.

Filling a sink with ice water (literally with ice in it) and then dunking your face in it is actually an evidence-based quick-cure if you catch yourself having an episode. Google "dive reflex" and you can find an explanation. Sometimes it works for me. Sometimes not.

I'm never happy to hear other people have this debilitating issue, but it may help to hear you're not alone in it?


This and other posts here were helpful. I do find it hard to forget, and not reimagine a lot, painful memories. Even if I know logically they aren't such a big deal. This helped explains some of that to me.

I never got meditation either. I like thinking about things and following my thoughts. Being passive to that or trying to clear my mind doesn't work.



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10 Jan 2022, 9:06 pm

I have a stupid good memory that can't forget things, which is likely from the ASD, hence it's much harder for me to stop reliving the bad things in my life. Hearing things can set off one, as can thinking of the...other.

I kinda just try to think of better things, daydream, as my memory is all the same for the good things, and I have good visualization skills and imagination. Distraction with work or hobbies that require concentration help (so you don't mess it up). I've been meaning to take up carving figures from wood. Some card games that are challenging are good, like Pairs with limited numbers of flipping the cards over. Helping my rather ill mother also helps me, and I kinda feel bad for admitting it does, as that's from suffering, but she told me herself that it'll help me, so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad there. Gardening and similar activities can be useful, but they don't require much concentration. I'm sure many of the usual arts and crafts would be useful too since it'll require skill and concentration. Music too, like playing instruments. Photography also. There's quite a lot of things out there that can be used as distraction. Those free online courses if there's anything you find interesting; I did a chemistry one.

Video games or physical activity that require more skill than usual work for me too, as whilst I have some slight physical disability, it's not a bother (Sekiro/Dark Souls 3/Bloodborne for games and Kata from various Japanese martial arts; doing Tantojutsu at the moment).



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11 Jan 2022, 12:58 am

Thank you very much for the suggestions, these sound good was doing gardening till neighbourhood hoodlums
Drug sales thought I should not . The police were literally of no help it took years to finally discourage me enough , and a health cash. But might just explore your other suggestions …! :D


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IsabellaLinton
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11 Jan 2022, 1:40 am

I have a hard time watching new shows or even reading new books because of CPTSD (densely scattered traumatic experiences). These media make me anxious about which emotions or memories might be triggered unexpectedly. I can really relate to what you described. I agree that we have difficulty with neural pruning. In my case my right and left brain get traffic jammed, and can't communicate well back and forth. Depending on the situation I'm either all right brain, or all left brain. They don't share information to balance each other. My therapist also sees that I don't "get over" anything, ever. Even if I forget the experience it's embedded deeply in my psyche and still affecting everything I do / avoid for the rest of my life.

I agree that mindfulness is crap, and can't help me. My ADHD is too severe and I'm too hyper-vigilant to calm my thinking, or direct its path. The best remedy for me has been Occupational Therapy to regulate my nervous system and interoceptive awareness. The brain won't respond to higher order cognitive therapy or be capable of logical thought unless your primative needs are satisfied first - calming the limbic system and the fight / flight / freeze response which is considered lower order. Until that time, the mind will be unable to feel safe and it won't expend energy in problem solving.



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11 Jan 2022, 5:31 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
The brain won't respond to higher order cognitive therapy or be capable of logical thought unless your primative needs are satisfied first - calming the limbic system and the fight / flight / freeze response which is considered lower order. Until that time, the mind will be unable to feel safe and it won't expend energy in problem solving.


Well said. I've noticed this too, and it was one reason I hated cognitive behavioral therapy. I could sense my mind did this on its own when I was calm, but forcing it was just a way of thinking out of your emotions, which only makes things worse in the long run.



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11 Jan 2022, 6:54 am

Yeah, I can't really say my physical symptoms have lessened much (heightened excitatory neurotransmission doing its thing there), rather I just learnt to live with it, gotten used to it, like the eeeeeeeeeeeeee in my ears/head. Panic attacks? Sure, and that'd be daily, but you wouldn't know I'm experiencing them because it's just normal now. The tingling face, pins and needles, the warmth, the sweating palms, that anxiety you feel, sinus tachy, breath holding, sense of impending doom and all the other friends of the fight or flight telling you that danger is nearby. I just don't bother looking for it, so the symptoms go away. They'll be back again all the same soon enough. That's my healed state. I've done sorta well, mostly. It all came back recently as the one guy I used to talk about it to died (old PTSD buddy from the mental hospital who I hadn't spoken to for about seven years). My old psychiatrist had personal experience with this too, so I talked to him all the same, and he helped me a lot; he didn't really think you can recover fully, just live with it, and it'll lessen as the years go on. He had this opinion for most things. He's dead too. Of course, all of those other emotions are along for the ride.

I'm alright with movies/media reporting, as I guess I have a large detachment there.



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11 Jan 2022, 9:57 am

HighLlama wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
The brain won't respond to higher order cognitive therapy or be capable of logical thought unless your primative needs are satisfied first - calming the limbic system and the fight / flight / freeze response which is considered lower order. Until that time, the mind will be unable to feel safe and it won't expend energy in problem solving.


Well said. I've noticed this too, and it was one reason I hated cognitive behavioral therapy. I could sense my mind did this on its own when I was calm, but forcing it was just a way of thinking out of your emotions, which only makes things worse in the long run.


CBT is a form of Gaslighting for people with ASD and / or CPTSD.

We can’t change our thought patterns at will. No amount of logical reasoning will improve our adaptive functioning ability because those behaviours are hard wired to the limbic system for survival. Other forms of therapy might work if they focus on the nervous system but “mind over matter” will not.



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11 Jan 2022, 10:20 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I have a hard time watching new shows or even reading new books because of CPTSD (densely scattered traumatic experiences). These media make me anxious about which emotions or memories might be triggered unexpectedly. I can really relate to what you described. I agree that we have difficulty with neural pruning. In my case my right and left brain get traffic jammed, and can't communicate well back and forth. Depending on the situation I'm either all right brain, or all left brain. They don't share information to balance each other. My therapist also sees that I don't "get over" anything, ever. Even if I forget the experience it's embedded deeply in my psyche and still affecting everything I do / avoid for the rest of my life.

I agree that mindfulness is crap, and can't help me. My ADHD is too severe and I'm too hyper-vigilant to calm my thinking, or direct its path. The best remedy for me has been Occupational Therapy to regulate my nervous system and interoceptive awareness. The brain won't respond to higher order cognitive therapy or be capable of logical thought unless your primative needs are satisfied first - calming the limbic system and the fight / flight / freeze response which is considered lower order. Until that time, the mind will be unable to feel safe and it won't expend energy in problem solving.


In my major shutdowns I'm aware and thinking but problem solving is difficult or non-functioning, I can relate. So when I explaining a subject say the birds/bees, someone asks what about the price of tea in china, that blank period of switching gears, frustration, and difficulty getting back to original subject is a minor shutdown?



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11 Jan 2022, 12:41 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I have a hard time watching new shows or even reading new books because of CPTSD (densely scattered traumatic experiences). These media make me anxious about which emotions or memories might be triggered unexpectedly. I can really relate to what you described. I agree that we have difficulty with neural pruning. In my case my right and left brain get traffic jammed, and can't communicate well back and forth. Depending on the situation I'm either all right brain, or all left brain. They don't share information to balance each other. My therapist also sees that I don't "get over" anything, ever. Even if I forget the experience it's embedded deeply in my psyche and still affecting everything I do / avoid for the rest of my life.

I agree that mindfulness is crap, and can't help me. My ADHD is too severe and I'm too hyper-vigilant to calm my thinking, or direct its path. The best remedy for me has been Occupational Therapy to regulate my nervous system and interoceptive awareness. The brain won't respond to higher order cognitive therapy or be capable of logical thought unless your primative needs are satisfied first - calming the limbic system and the fight / flight / freeze response which is considered lower order. Until that time, the mind will be unable to feel safe and it won't expend energy in problem solving.


Thank you for this ,, You have given words to several levels of situations that i find myself in ,more specifically my brain and it processing . Have intuituvely known about calming the fight or flight response .. And few times in my life have found short periods of time , where i like to think
that have had those responses in a state of repose. It almost feels as if people sense this and cannot bear that someone might have peace if mind.
After Sooo many years my flight and fighht response has become the dominant way i process life.
Which is terribly hard to live with. Have been fooled by individuals soo many times even family .
So dealing with trigger response can be hour to hour sometimes it feels minute to minute unless i find something to distract my self.
Even it is hard to process positive experiences now. Had a number of years with my husband but then one of my own brothers thought that was too much and killed him and got away with it.
With help of his GF. Have grown up even before that with many many violent instances put upon me by family . And even tried to make me believe it was normal for me.
Events of this nature did not let up till just months ago when the neighbourhood ex-con finally died only to be replaced by someone introducing himself at my door as a ex herion junkie.
The immediate 47 yr old adult child of the immediate nextdoor neighbour .
Am not really aware of the left and right brain miscommunications ,And their difficulties. As am pretty involved in just trying not to be reactionary . In most circumstances.
The amount of anti despressants and various sleep aides have had to use is incredible .
Can truley relate to your writing about being hypervigilant .
Then recently with Covid had stopped,all of those meds. And feel no worse .With the exception of a amino acid sleep aide. But today am just gonna try to be okay.! just for today.


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11 Jan 2022, 1:41 pm

Hugs, Jakki.

You might want to look for a PTSD OT. That's an Occupational Therapist who specialises in PTSD and resetting the limbic system. You can start by looking up Stephen Porges, PolyVagal Theory, and The Safe Sounds Protocol.

I had a good video explaining SSP but I can't find it anymore.

Edit: Wow! I just stumbled upon it!

Open this link and watch the video.


https://aus.integratedlistening.com/blo ... r-houston/



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11 Jan 2022, 3:44 pm

Thank you very much...! am a little panicky just now but , i will try to alleviate that just now.
So i can watch the video with a less stressed mind am in the middle of a hughe plumbing rehab on this home . which the parent company has been behaving less than responsibly . Am hoping a phone call will help this situation. :roll: . too many people showing up.unexpectedly to do work or take my vitals . 8O


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CrisChalcedony
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12 Jan 2022, 2:57 pm

Jakki wrote:
The amount of anti despressants and various sleep aides have had to use is incredible .


BEEN THERE! For years. Everything you and Isabella Linton wrote here hits so close to home for me (but not in a bad way, because it's nice to know other people understand). Your quote above REALLY resonates with me.

I was misdiagnosed for most of my adult life with various things that were not autism, and put on cocktails of antidepressants, antipsychotics, and benzos, all of which made me less functional and feel worse than I did without any meds at all. But doctors said if I weaned off of them I would be doing it Against Medical Advice (a big deal and here in the US sometimes grounds for losing insurance) and they'd refuse to treat me. It was kind of dumb luck that I finally found a doctor willing to listen.

It sounds like you're having a similar experience, with stopping meds not actually making things worse.

Part of me does miss the benzos because at least then I could sleep. Taking ativan felt like wrapping myself up in a big, heavy, safe blanket. But I got hooked on that feeling so easily and I do not need to add addiction to the list of my problems, plus the side effects were scary.