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thinkinginpictures
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17 Jan 2022, 10:15 am

Todays Conservative political parties in The West originated in the 19th century when parliamentarism was introduced.

They represented the Nobility, which was notorious for its abuse and torture of the peasants and workers.

To vote Conservative therefore = being in favor of torturing the employees.

In other words, the Conservative parties are the ones speaking the cause of the Employers against the Employees.

The ultimate dream of the Employers and Conservatives is to bring back the "good ol' days" when they had the sovereign authority over the workers and common people.

Therefore it is despicable that people vote Conservative nowadays.



txfz1
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17 Jan 2022, 11:25 am

Any real evidence that conservatives systematic torture their employees?



thinkinginpictures
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17 Jan 2022, 1:18 pm

txfz1 wrote:
Any real evidence that conservatives systematic torture their employees?


The individual conservative voters may not be engaging in torture themselves. But they do advocate or dream of a society based on the ruling elite where the nobility has a right to dominate the weaker part - the proletarians.

In such a society, an employers violent actions against his employees is allowed.

This happens everywhere in true conservative countries. Iran is one of them. Saudi Arabia is another conservative country.



Nades
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17 Jan 2022, 1:34 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Any real evidence that conservatives systematic torture their employees?


The individual conservative voters may not be engaging in torture themselves. But they do advocate or dream of a society based on the ruling elite where the nobility has a right to dominate the weaker part - the proletarians.

In such a society, an employers violent actions against his employees is allowed.

This happens everywhere in true conservative countries. Iran is one of them. Saudi Arabia is another conservative country.


Not really.



txfz1
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17 Jan 2022, 2:07 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
The individual conservative voters may not be engaging in torture themselves. But they do advocate or dream of a society based on the ruling elite where the nobility has a right to dominate the weaker part - the proletarians.

In such a society, an employers violent actions against his employees is allowed.

This happens everywhere in true conservative countries. Iran is one of them. Saudi Arabia is another conservative country.


These countries are predominately muslim, do you think religion has influence on the ruling elite's right to dominate the weaker?



The_Walrus
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17 Jan 2022, 2:10 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Todays Conservative political parties in The West originated in the 19th century when parliamentarism was introduced.

They represented the Nobility, which was notorious for its abuse and torture of the peasants and workers.

To vote Conservative therefore = being in favor of torturing the employees.

This doesn't follow.



carlos55
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17 Jan 2022, 3:06 pm

While I’m neither conservative or socialist your rigid theory is incorrect.

A conservative is a person who usually wants to conserve the status quo whether good or bad, hence the “conserve” as part of the word.

A radical or change party wants to change things whether for good or bad.

Maybe the change party wants to scrap welfare or retirement and the conservatives will be the good guys.

Maybe the conservatives want force everyone to go to church on a sun so maybe that wouldn’t be such a great thing.

Look past labels and see what people stand for, no party should automatically have your vote.


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17 Jan 2022, 5:26 pm

No.


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Fnord
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17 Jan 2022, 5:38 pm

txfz1 wrote:
Any real evidence that conservatives systematic torture their employees?
It would depend on how someone defines "systematic torture used by conservatives".

• Something that Grand Inquisitor Torquemada would inflict?  No.

• Something that Doctor Josef Mengele would inflict?  No.

• Negotiating a union contract in good faith and expecting all employees to adhere to it at all times?  No.

• Expecting employees to work a mandatory 50+ hour work-week for less than minimum wage under hazardous conditions and no medical benefits?  Yes.

Conservatism is not inherently bad; but it may be implemented in bad ways.



txfz1
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17 Jan 2022, 5:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Any real evidence that conservatives systematic torture their employees?
It would depend on how someone defines "systematic torture used by conservatives".

• Something that Grand Inquisitor Torquemada would inflict?  No.

• Something that Doctor Josef Mengele would inflict?  No.

• Negotiating a union contract in good faith and expecting all employees to adhere to it at all times?  No.

• Expecting employees to work a mandatory 50+ hour work-week for less than minimum wage under hazardous conditions and no medical benefits?  Yes.

Conservatism is not inherently bad; but it may be implemented in bad ways.


If half the country is basically conservative, there must be tons of evidence of “Expecting employees to work a mandatory 50+ hour work-week for less than minimum wage under hazardous conditions and no medical benefits?”

Show me evidence, be specific.



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17 Jan 2022, 6:05 pm

txfz1 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Any real evidence that conservatives systematic torture their employees?
It would depend on how someone defines "systematic torture used by conservatives".

• Something that Grand Inquisitor Torquemada would inflict?  No.

• Something that Doctor Josef Mengele would inflict?  No.

• Negotiating a union contract in good faith and expecting all employees to adhere to it at all times?  No.

• Expecting employees to work a mandatory 50+ hour work-week for less than minimum wage under hazardous conditions and no medical benefits?  Yes.

Conservatism is not inherently bad; but it may be implemented in bad ways.
If half the country is basically conservative, there must be tons of evidence of “Expecting employees to work a mandatory 50+ hour work-week for less than minimum wage under hazardous conditions and no medical benefits?”

Show me evidence, be specific.
Since YOU claim there is evidence, it is up to YOU to provide it.

The first two examples were real-world; the second two were hypothetical.



naturalplastic
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18 Jan 2022, 3:03 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Todays Conservative political parties in The West originated in the 19th century when parliamentarism was introduced.

They represented the Nobility, which was notorious for its abuse and torture of the peasants and workers.

To vote Conservative therefore = being in favor of torturing the employees.

In other words, the Conservative parties are the ones speaking the cause of the Employers against the Employees.

The ultimate dream of the Employers and Conservatives is to bring back the "good ol' days" when they had the sovereign authority over the workers and common people. Both are sweeping inaccurate statements.

Therefore it is despicable that people vote Conservative nowadays.



It aint that simple.

What youre saying is equivalent to saying that "liberals/progressives" are all in favor of big government. And if you took their ideas to the extreme you would have Stalin, or Kim Jong Un. So anyone who votes other than conservative is evil because ultimately theyre voting for Kim Jong Un.



thinkinginpictures
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18 Jan 2022, 11:42 am

I hate the notion of the "Big Government" and claiming that is necessarily a bad thing.

Every successful civilization has a big government. The U.S. has a big government, as big as the Chinese government.
The issue is how each government is applied to certain issues.

The word "progressive" is as fuzzy as anything can get. I also hate the use of that word.

Conservatives believe in conscription as well as other ways of coercion.

Some would claim Conservatism and Liberalism should be on the vertical axis of the polical compass, with economic issues (capitalist/socialist) on the horizontal axis.

In other words: Negative rights (freedom of speech, freedom of choice in regard to work etc.) are placed at the bottom of the political compass, with positive rights (entitlements, such as social benefits) at the top.

I don't think you can set it up like this. Economy has as much to do with freedom of choice as the negative rights.

A true liberal would be in favor of a tax funded Unconditional Basic Income, to replace higher social benefits with requirements of work. A true liberal would be against conscription as well as other types of mandatory work for free citizens. A true liberal would be in favor of freedom of speech and the right to protest.

Conservatives on the other hand, are eager to be in favor of coercion, such as conscription, work duty, censorship etc.
It doesn't matter whether they favor capitalism over socialism. It has nothing to do with Conservatism, whether you are pro-capitalist or pro-state ownership.

Capitalism can work in a totalitarian state as well. China happens to be such a country (despite it's ruling party name, it has nothing to do with communism).

Capitalism is a method by which you turn money into more money.

As to "progressives" it has nothing to do with being liberal. It just happens that for the past 20 years, progressives have been in favor of more negative and positive rights for the people. But nothing really prevents progressives from taking a different path. The witch hunts in 17th century Europe was progressive, compared to the medieval view on witches (a view far more liberal than most people believe).

Conservatism is just a level to describe a set of beliefs that are neither totalitarian or liberal.
It's in-between the Center and Reactionary, with Totalitarian being the most extreme.

So you can set it up like this:

Level of liberty for the people:

Anarchist-------Liberal-------Center-------Conservative-------Reactionary



Fnord
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18 Jan 2022, 12:08 pm

I came up with 4 basic types of Conservative (there may be more), with some overlap between types.

• Cultural Conservative: Uphold the American Way of Life, both the good and the bad, at home and abroad; become stronger allies with countries that speak the same language.

• Fiscal Conservative: Deregulate the economy (e.g., "Invisible Hand", "Laissez Faire", et cetera); lower taxes; reduce the size of the government; privatize state-owned companies; reduce government spending.

• Social Conservative: Strict adherence to a moral ideology based on family values and religious traditions; rooted in the Bible or similar religious texts; promote religious indoctrination in public schools; opposed to the idea of mass immigration (i.e., only highly skilled immigrants should be allowed to immigrate); opposed to drug use, prostitution, abortion and other immoral acts; opposed to the idea of legalizing gay marriage; protect the status quo; opposed to the idea of divorce; have a strong family life; establish and maintain a rigid social structure.

• Traditional Conservative: Believe in the Constitution and the power it gives the government and the people; opposed to socialism and communism; support small government; tax cuts, tax breaks to corporations in exchange for job creation; privatization; reduce spending and limiting entitlement programs; emphasize the important of charity.

The foregoing is just my opinion, as I have not included some of the more extreme conservative groups, like Evangelicals, MAGA, and Proud Boys.  I have also left out Libertarians, because I cannot find any two Libertarians who agree on that they are supposed to believe.



txfz1
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18 Jan 2022, 1:21 pm

Fnord wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Any real evidence that conservatives systematic torture their employees?
It would depend on how someone defines "systematic torture used by conservatives".

• Something that Grand Inquisitor Torquemada would inflict?  No.

• Something that Doctor Josef Mengele would inflict?  No.

• Negotiating a union contract in good faith and expecting all employees to adhere to it at all times?  No.

• Expecting employees to work a mandatory 50+ hour work-week for less than minimum wage under hazardous conditions and no medical benefits?  Yes.

Conservatism is not inherently bad; but it may be implemented in bad ways.
If half the country is basically conservative, there must be tons of evidence of “Expecting employees to work a mandatory 50+ hour work-week for less than minimum wage under hazardous conditions and no medical benefits?”

Show me evidence, be specific.
Since YOU claim there is evidence, it is up to YOU to provide it.

The first two examples were real-world; the second two were hypothetical.


I didn't think you could find any either, weak.



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18 Jan 2022, 1:50 pm

All isms are bad.


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