McConnell: Black people vote at similar rates to ‘Americans’

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They can, just need to fill out the caregivers form. Why is the water provided by the poll watchers and election judges bad, there is usually a water fountain nearby in all public buildings? Most people carry water with them everywhere, I usually do. I'm not judging you but this is a silly reason to implement the federal overtaking of states rights.

Lots of reasons to close licensing offices, covid was one, utilization/optimizations, etc. Where is the logic that it is restricting voting when most people have IDs? FWIW, my time for in-person renewal was due but I was out of state and I was able to do it by mail. I just don't see where your complaint has merit.

Why should anyone have to fill out a caregiver's form for just giving water to someone in need? The whole idea behind this is to make voting uncomfortable for citizens who have a reduction in voting stations in their neighborhoods, and thus have to deal with long lines.
Not everyone knows they can get their ID's renewed by mail. This was going on prior to covid. Isn't it suspicious that such closures are mainly in poor and minority neighborhoods?

Most people don’t drink out of water fountains these days.

“States Rights” was used as an excuse for perpetuating the Jim Crow laws which kept African-Americans from being granted the full rights given American citizens.

Why can’t the Republicans provide water for voters, too?

No, it's part of the general set of policies against electioneering, designed to prevent groups from trying to influence the vote by flattering, bribing, or intimidating voters. I'll agree that the water thing seems a bit silly, but picture how that could evolve if left unchecked, swag booths set up outside polling places with lobby groups handing out merchandise and gear, poll watchers videotaping everyone while "handing out water", a sort of circus set up outside of every place that voting occurs, etc.

I don't think anyone's going to put up with that, which is why such a scenario is highly unlikely. If Trump had thought he could get away with it, he'd have merchandise stands outside every precinct station, manned by armed Oath Keepers and Proud Boys.

Yes, and in order to keep it that way, sometimes you need to write the laws a bit broadly. Do you recall the stink about the NBPP guys standing around the polling stations with batons back in the Obama years?



FOX had a field day with that for years, that's what these anti electioneering laws are ultimately designed to prevent.

I actually remember that. But what I also remember was how no one defended the Panthers.
Standing outside a precinct station with batons is hardly the same as handing out water.

Imagine them looking exactly like that, but manning a "water stand", or their right wing equivalent, kitted up militia looking guys standing around handing out water; might make you a bit nervous, right? That's all I'm trying to get across here, that the law might sound silly, but that there is actually a reason behind it, they're trying to stay a step ahead of the rules lawyers who are going to show up in menacing attire to "hand out water" when everyone knows that's not what they're really there for. Chalk it up under "this is why we can't have nice things".

There are actually some older, goofier laws about this, I know at least one state used to ban politicians from smiling within a certain radius of a polling place, as they thought that might unduly influence the vote.

I doubt someone could seriously get away with it, especially as the New Black Panthers weren't working for the Dems or any particular political party.
Incidentally, there are Republican politicians who have been talking about Voting Police, who would determine who can vote, and would determine the final count. I don't hear anyone of a conservative bent complaining against these plans.

No, they were just random bozos, but you could say the same thing about many of the militia groups that might think to try something like that, and electioneering laws are there to nip it in the bud if they did.



It's an unfortunate thing on the right, they really do believe that election fraud is more common than it is, and I can't entirely blame them, the optics on a lot of this stuff is bad. I'm sure you've seen the "blue shift" here in Washington before, when one candidate is ahead on election night, and then as the mail in ballots trickle in the lead withers away until the other guy is declared the winner days or weeks later, and it's almost always the Democrat? I know why it happens, Republicans skew older and prefer more traditional forms of organizing, church and community groups and other in person forms of interaction, as well as in person voting, so they see what looks like lots of energy and turnout for their candidates, only for that all to be washed away by the later flood of mail in ballots, it looks bad and it feels bad. Add in the fact that they tend to live in less densely populated areas and often don't realize just how many more people are packed into the cities, and it becomes easier to see why things feel unfair to them, like there must be something going on, particularly in a year like 2020 where no one was really enthusiastic about Biden, but he managed to break turnout records, it looks shady to them.

I'm not saying they're correct about any of this, I'm just trying to get you to see it with their eyes for a second, a guy that no one seems to like somehow beats your guy who you've been seeing signs and parades for all year, who everyone you know is voting for, whose supporters all seem super fired up and ready to go, in a year with all sorts of new voting rules due to the pandemic, with large middle of the night shifts due to mail in ballots, etc.

To be clear, I think election police are a dumb idea and a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, but I know why so many Republicans think they need them.

You didn’t answer the question, why is water from the poll watchers and election judges not acceptable? Vote harvesting should be discouraged in my opinion, do you agree?

Why is extending the early voting not acceptable to reduce the long lines?

Why do you think people cannot find the information to renew IDs by mail? It’s written on the renewal notice.

I would like to understand your point of view as to why these measures are not acceptable. You (and KK) seem to be rigid in thinking it’s your way or the highway. I understand this is part of asd traits but also think we must overcome these when having a real conversation to solve the world’s problems. Otherwise we are just debating to debate, which is also acceptable to me.

I remember eating lunch in my car and listening to the radio where, for the first time, I heard Jack Kennedy speak. Wow, I thought. Can someone explain why we can't find anyone today who could inspire like he did? Everybody you see as leaders are way, way past retirement age and only speak to others their age. McConnell is only one example. Biden and Pelosi are two more. Surely there are others who got elected based on their visions for the future, etc. Where are they?

People are afraid to be overtly idealistic, or overtly intellectual and eloquent, these days.

Somebody like FDR would probably fall flat on his face in the 2020s. People had more blind faith in their leaders back then.

Actually, yes, it can be hard for some people.

It costs money.
It has to be done at certain locations within certain hours that people without transportation or with certain job hours may not be able to meet.
You have to provide copies of documents you may not have handy and may need to pay for (and what if you don’t have things like utility bills for backup?).
It often requires a numbered street address which some jurisdictions (like some Indian reservations) don’t provide.

That is just off the top of my head.

Even then, it is rarely about having ID, but about having the “right” ID. Not expired, a driver’s license but not student ID, etc. Go back to my coworker whose US passport was not good enough to register with in the state of Pennsylvania, according to the registration worker.

Remember all these measures are designed to sound reasonable, while being specifically targeted to make things more difficult for specific groups.

It is designed to discourage, just like my coworker being sent home to return with a different document.

In all prosecuted cases of voting fraud (which is aggressively pursued but is rarely found) only maybe one or two involved someone trying to vote under someone else’s name. It is a “solution” in want of a problem, so one should ask why it is offered.

And this is only one example. Most of the measures are similarly insidious.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 25 Jan 2022, 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It’s too easy to tear them down. Imagine Kennedy with all his affairs running in today’s world. We know too much, and people aren’t perfect.

But I do remember in 2008 noticing how many people felt that way about Obama. He inspired people. It was exciting to watch. His actual leadership may not have lived up to the hype, but it was rather beautiful while it existed.

The elephant in the room is that those long lines only existed in certain jurisdictions.

The water thing sounds reasonable but is really just another hurdle still directed at one specific group of people, for the same reason they weren’t given enough polling locations they wouldn’t have to wait in line for.

It’s an insidious pile on.

Was there any actual electioneering when water was passed out, or just concerned citizens helping other citizens get through hours of standing in the heat?

Solutions in search of problems that don’t actually exist.