Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

98-year-old Auschwitz Survivor Reveals She Has Never Thought

Page 2 of 5 [ 79 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

28 Jan 2022, 10:00 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Of course anti-trans arguments fall apart in open, honest, logical debate. That does not mean people will stop spouting anti-trans arguments, because these people are not logical. And the result of expressing anti-trans is trans people being bullied, being kicked out of their homes by their parents, being driven to suicide, being murdered by fundamentalists, and being treated as disgusting perverted deviants..


How about religious schools (Jewish, christian and muslim) being legally allowed to kick staff or students out of their schools who are LGBRQI? no amount of "logical" debate is going to make them change their admissions/recruitment policy.
Some backward social problems are too deeply rooted for now to allow honest logical debate and require government intervention.

For starters, religious schools who practice discrimination on the basis of race, religion or sexual orientation should receive $0,00 in subsidies from the government.


I disagree with this notion completely.

Christian schools are mostly LGBTQ+ friendly in the United Kingdom nowadays, and that will probably become the case for the United States in the future, too.

Muslim & Jewish schools are perfectly valid and should be exempt from having to abide by LGBTQ+ regulations, otherwise, you are enforcing ideology on those people from LGBTQ+ folk, and that's not okay, whichever way you look at it.


In Australia christian schools retain the power to discriminate, Islamic and Jewish colleges have never entertained inclusion of LGBTQI or embraced tolerance,

My point was that if schools want to have exclusivity (I forgot to mention most private religious schools are also picky about allowing students who don't fit their rigid criteria that includes disability, lower SES backgrounds and poor academic performance) then they forfeit their right to taxpayer subsidies. I think that's fair.



shlaifu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,659

28 Jan 2022, 11:46 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Of course anti-trans arguments fall apart in open, honest, logical debate. That does not mean people will stop spouting anti-trans arguments, because these people are not logical. And the result of expressing anti-trans is trans people being bullied, being kicked out of their homes by their parents, being driven to suicide, being murdered by fundamentalists, and being treated as disgusting perverted deviants..


How about religious schools (Jewish, christian and muslim) being legally allowed to kick staff or students out of their schools who are LGBRQI? no amount of "logical" debate is going to make them change their admissions/recruitment policy.
Some backward social problems are too deeply rooted for now to allow honest logical debate and require government intervention.

For starters, religious schools who practice discrimination on the basis of race, religion or sexual orientation should receive $0,00 in subsidies from the government.


I disagree with this notion completely.

Christian schools are mostly LGBTQ+ friendly in the United Kingdom nowadays, and that will probably become the case for the United States in the future, too.

Muslim & Jewish schools are perfectly valid and should be exempt from having to abide by LGBTQ+ regulations, otherwise, you are enforcing ideology on those people from LGBTQ+ folk, and that's not okay, whichever way you look at it.


Being Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans, Queer and plus is however not an ideology.
Religions however are ideologies. They are entirely fictional ways to view the world. Why should their fictions be held in higher regard than sexual orientation?


_________________
I can read facial expressions. I did the test.


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,504
Location: Right over your left shoulder

29 Jan 2022, 12:04 am

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Imagine all the trouble Germany and the world could have been spared if only Hitler was cancelled by his countrymen in the 1920s.


To be fair to the German people, Hitler and the brownshirts were actually propped up by the German aristocracy/military in order to counter the growing popularity of the communist party. Many of the aristocrats feared a "French revolution" and thought they could manipulate/control Hitler as Nazis were the natural enemies of the communists.

Once Hitler gained control of the army and police then it was easier to win over the German people in the 1933 election (I think even then he didn't get a majority so had to force the result). Of course the German people were mostly willing collaborators (to quote Harvard professor William Goldhagen) through years of programming.


I familiar with Hitler's rise to power and how it occurred, what I'm saying is that a healthy society would have shunned him and his message from early on, 'made him a victim of cancel-culture' as the right calls it and he would have just been an obscure failed artist and far-right crank known for writing books your crazy WWI vet uncle reads.


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 15,345
Location: United Kingdom

29 Jan 2022, 12:05 am

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Imagine all the trouble Germany and the world could have been spared if only Hitler was cancelled by his countrymen in the 1920s.


To be fair to the German people, Hitler and the brownshirts were actually propped up by the German aristocracy/military in order to counter the growing popularity of the communist party. Many of the aristocrats feared a "French revolution" and thought they could manipulate/control Hitler as Nazis were the natural enemies of the communists.

Once Hitler gained control of the army and police then it was easier to win over the German people in the 1933 election (I think even then he didn't get a majority so had to force the result). Of course the German people were mostly willing collaborators (to quote Harvard professor William Goldhagen) through years of programming.


I familiar with Hitler's rise to power and how it occurred, what I'm saying is that a healthy society would have shunned him and his message from early on, 'made him a victim of cancel-culture' as the right calls it and he would have just been an obscure failed artist and far-right crank known for writing books your crazy WWI vet uncle reads.


I would argue that authoritarian wokeologists are just as bad as any hardcore, die-hard Trump supporting right-winger.

There are Hitler's on both the right & left side of the political spectrum.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

29 Jan 2022, 12:08 am

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Imagine all the trouble Germany and the world could have been spared if only Hitler was cancelled by his countrymen in the 1920s.


To be fair to the German people, Hitler and the brownshirts were actually propped up by the German aristocracy/military in order to counter the growing popularity of the communist party. Many of the aristocrats feared a "French revolution" and thought they could manipulate/control Hitler as Nazis were the natural enemies of the communists.

Once Hitler gained control of the army and police then it was easier to win over the German people in the 1933 election (I think even then he didn't get a majority so had to force the result). Of course the German people were mostly willing collaborators (to quote Harvard professor William Goldhagen) through years of programming.


I familiar with Hitler's rise to power and how it occurred, what I'm saying is that a healthy society would have shunned him and his message from early on, 'made him a victim of cancel-culture' as the right calls it and he would have just been an obscure failed artist and far-right crank known for writing books your crazy WWI vet uncle reads.



Too bad people weren't woke then because there would have been no WWII and no Haulocaust denial because the genocide would have never happened.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,504
Location: Right over your left shoulder

29 Jan 2022, 12:24 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
I would argue that authoritarian wokeologists are just as bad as any hardcore, die-hard Trump supporting right-winger.

There are Hitler's on both the right & left side of the political spectrum.


#enlightenedcentrism

Image


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

29 Jan 2022, 12:30 am

Except lot of bigots don't actually want to kill minorities, they just don't understand that their beliefs is what leads to power and deaths if enabled. Look at our history and Hitler and how he got into power. Beliefs is what led to segregation and Jim Crow laws and why gay people had to be in the closet or they would be murdered.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 15,345
Location: United Kingdom

29 Jan 2022, 12:35 am

League_Girl wrote:
Except lot of bigots don't actually want to kill minorities, they just don't understand that their beliefs is what leads to power and deaths if enabled. Look at our history and Hitler and how he got into power. Beliefs is what led to segregation and Jim Crow laws and why gay people had to be in the closet or they would be murdered.


This is true. But it happened to an even greater degree with Stalin's communist regime in terms of death toll/count.

When authoritarian wokeologists cancel large groups of people, it can lead to Stalin like destruction.

I am not saying Hitler's right-wing doctrine is any different.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

29 Jan 2022, 12:42 am

But wokes only want to cancel bigots that have harmful beliefs. I guess they are a big majority which is why it's scary for my country so we're fighting back. That is why Jan 6th 2021 was very scary. 75 million voted for Trump in 2020. Me and my husband have different thoughts about it. I think that many people are racist and don't care about minorities but my husband thinks many of them are misinformed and Trump lied and created a womb.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,504
Location: Right over your left shoulder

29 Jan 2022, 12:45 am

League_Girl wrote:
Except lot of bigots don't actually want to kill minorities, they just don't understand that their beliefs is what leads to power and deaths if enabled. Look at our history and Hitler and how he got into power. Beliefs is what led to segregation and Jim Crow laws and why gay people had to be in the closet or they would be murdered.


There's ones who do and adjacent to them are many more who would ultimately stand by and not care even if they might not actively desire that outcome. That's how murderous regimes get away with it and that's why people need to be willing to resist those movements in the bud, before they're able to get the power to act with impunity.


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,504
Location: Right over your left shoulder

29 Jan 2022, 12:46 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
When authoritarian wokeologists cancel large groups of people, it can lead to Stalin like destruction.


Has it ever before? Stalin's regime wasn't exactly influenced by something that didn't exist for another 65 years or so.


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 15,345
Location: United Kingdom

29 Jan 2022, 12:53 am

funeralxempire wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
When authoritarian wokeologists cancel large groups of people, it can lead to Stalin like destruction.


Has it ever before? Stalin's regime wasn't exactly influenced by something that didn't exist for another 65 years or so.


You have this the wrong way around, in my opinion.

Authoritarian wokeology is in essence, a lite version of Stalinist communism, without the physical killing, for the most part. But if that culture is allowed to go on for decades, it could easily lead to chaos and physical killing. It is a consequence of Stalinist thought, not a precursor to Stalinist thought.

That's why Trump voters are ready to kill people - they have had enough of being silenced (many of them are not physical killers either, just as leftist wokeologists are not).



Last edited by blitzkrieg on 29 Jan 2022, 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

29 Jan 2022, 12:54 am

funeralxempire wrote:
what I'm saying is that a healthy society would have shunned him and his message from early on, 'made him a victim of cancel-culture' as the right calls it and he would have just been an obscure failed artist and far-right crank known for writing books your crazy WWI vet uncle reads.


But that's also my point. The programming mean't Germany wasn't a healthy society in 1932 despite great cultural and social strides in many areas, German people were fed on a diet of catholic anti-semitism, eugenics and fantasy/myth of German superiority for several hundred years. Throw into this toxic mindset the loss after WW1, the reparations, the catastrophic impact of the global stock market crash and unemployment and you had the perfect storm that permitted normalisation of the alliance between German aristocrats and the Nazis as a path for a future German nation.

A lot of Americans have similar disorted thinking when they normalised Trump as a path for the future.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

29 Jan 2022, 12:56 am

League_Girl wrote:
But wokes only want to cancel bigots that have harmful beliefs. I guess they are a big majority which is why it's scary for my country so we're fighting back. That is why Jan 6th 2021 was very scary. 75 million voted for Trump in 2020. Me and my husband have different thoughts about it. I think that many people are racist and don't care about minorities but my husband thinks many of them are misinformed and Trump lied and created a womb.


All of the above.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

29 Jan 2022, 12:57 am

funeralxempire wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Except lot of bigots don't actually want to kill minorities, they just don't understand that their beliefs is what leads to power and deaths if enabled. Look at our history and Hitler and how he got into power. Beliefs is what led to segregation and Jim Crow laws and why gay people had to be in the closet or they would be murdered.


There's ones who do and adjacent to them are many more who would ultimately stand by and not care even if they might not actively desire that outcome. That's how murderous regimes get away with it and that's why people need to be willing to resist those movements in the bud, before they're able to get the power to act with impunity.


I know in 3rd world countries its real bad and in Japan you can go to jail for actually being trans. It makes the US look more free for trans people but that is if they live in a liberal area or have a liberal family. I suspect trans people who don't take transphobia seriously probably never lived in a religios nutter family or live in a conservative area so in a way they are privileged.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 15,345
Location: United Kingdom

29 Jan 2022, 12:59 am

An authoritarian wokeologists' safe space is a political moderate persons danger area & also a hardcore right-winger danger area, and everything between those two points, on a linear scale.

Radical leftism is doomed/dead. If you don't believe me, check back in 2 and a half years.

Dead, I tell you. :mrgreen: