Getting along better with much older people?

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Could it be that times have changed. As in they respected older people in the past but not any more?

I feel there’s still a lot of respect for older people, still, in the US—but probably not to the extent found in some other nations.

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But you're not forced to think that way? What's a no-win situation is you not doing anything and then complaining about how no one else is doing things for you, either.



How would you know that "everyone ends up getting someone talking to them?" There are plenty of loners in the world, so with that logic, you ought to stop complaining.



But why should they rate you as 5 instead of 1? People have different values and orders of importance. If it's okay for you to rate people according to your values, like choosing homeless people to be 1 and not talk to them, then it's equally okay for other people to decide that you're 1 for whatever reason and not talk to you.

Also, how can they change your rating from 1 to 5 if you do nothing differently to change it? If you run in to a person who uses a rating system like that, then once they've rated you as 1, you'll stay rated as 1 unless you do something to make them change the rating. Do something about you messy appearance, talk to those people to change their opinion on person or something, but by doing nothing you can't get them to change their ratings.



Well, if an older man is talking to just young women but the talk isn't sexual, it doesn't necessarily mean he's a dirty old man, it's not a fact, but it's easy to assume that. So yes, it's a stereotype. If the talk was sexual, then it'd be a fact that the said old man is a dirty old man.



Well I don't know if it's true or not, but it could be a case by case -kind of thing. Maybe some universities give out really poor salaries, and some others actually pay well. Or maybe it depends on the field of study. I'd recommend on looking in to it in more detail.

Life isn't always fun. I used to do unpaid internships so that my CV would look better because the only other option was just staying home. Having a low paid job in your own field in Russia for a while might be a good move for your career in the long run.

I'm not entirely sure if not being vaccinated is a problem, you'd have to look it up, but some countries allow non-vaccinated travelers if they can prove they've had Covid within the last six months (as in, black on white that a doctor diagnosed it to be just that) or if they take Covid tests at certain timings before and during the trip and the tests are negative. Should be easy to figure it out by googling.

As for the religious part of it, I'm gonna stay out of that one aside from saying that if the rules of your religion are that important to you, then maybe you should ask for the opinion of a priest or the like of your religion's when it comes to the passport matter.

I wasn't talking about my thinking I was talking about their thinking. Since I can't control what they think, thats where the no-win situation is coming from. I am faced with a choice between not talking and them thinking I am flirting.



How many loners would you estimate there are?

My own guess is that it is probably 1% of population. Since there are billions of people on earth, 1% of few billions is lot. But that doesn't change the fact that I don't want to be the bottom 1%

If 50% of people were loners I won't be complaining. But since it is 1%, thats where my complaining is coming from.



Values is something they should be able to name. So if they were to say "I don't like scientists, science is crap", then I get it. But thats not what they say. On the contrary, when I tell them about my career they usually compliment me. Yet they don't talk to me. So its like "you check all my value system but you are still a crap because you don't count".



The same way as how they rated me as 1 on the first place. How did they do it without ever interacting with me? If they were more reasonable as far as not rating somone whom they never interacted with, they wouldn't have to change their rating either.

I guess maybe they did interact with me BRIEFLY and then rated me based off of first impression. But then it goes to first impressions being unfair.

Your suggestion is to change first impression by initiating interactions myself. But I saw some studies on the internet that say that first impressions don't change. Now, its unfair that people would make first impression based on 30 second interaction and then never change it. But that is precisly what some of those studies show, which is what I am bitter about.

One thing people "could" do though is introduce me around. I remember a few instances when they did, but a lot more cases when they chose not to.



And I did, as I mentioned in the other thread. And yes it helped. How much, it is hard to evaluate because the semester is over and nobody is around.

But I am thinking of going to new places for a fresh start. I am thinking of churches. I guess given that I am Messianic, I already been to all the Messianic churches there are. But I am thinking of maybe going to regular churches just to socialize. I guess I can also look at some meetup groups, I will see.



Okay thanks for clarifying it.

So why do they assume that older men are more likely to have sexual under-motives than younger ones? I mean biologically younger men should have more hormones.



Yes I thought about that too. But when I asked my dad's friend and others that maybe there are other places in Russia with better pay they were saying there aren't.

I guess I can do my own search. It is a bit inconvenient that Russian places don't appear on international job searches, but maybe I can just google specific universities and see what I can find.

I could also email a few Russian professors that work in the US whom I know and see if they have any connections with people in Russia or knowledge about it.



Yeah, I never had to do this. I was always paid either by graduate school, or by postdoc, or my mom. So now that my mom is retiring and I am on my own, it kinda scares me.



I was more thinking about American airports not letting me board the international plane. But now that you reminded me, I see that the Russian policies after I land is something to ask about too.



With passports they don't have one set of rules, more like different opinions different people have. So I can contact the people that are trying to avoid them and see what they have to say.

It's not like they'll always think you're flirting. And if they did, practice is how you learn to talk without sounding like you're flirting.



Dunno. I think that a big part of the population has phases in their life when they're really lonely and could be considered loners. As for those who it lasts for years... really hard to say, but there are probably more people like that on the spectrum than among NTs.

But anyway, what good is complaining going to do? I would guess it would just make your situation worse by pushing people away from you; people tend to avoid those who are very negative because too much negativeness will ruin their own moods, too. You complain a lot IRL too, right? How about trying to keep talks to positive things when talking with other people face to face for a while and see if it makes any difference in how you're treated?



But if they don't talk to you then what makes you think they can't name what values of theirs you're against? Maybe they value good hygiene and neat appearance, for example. Avoiding you would fit that value, or at least has fit that value for a long time, no?



You do know that by this logic, you're also being unreasonable by rating homeless people as 1 without even talking to them, right?



First impressions can't be changed, yes, because it literally means the first impression one gets from a person. However, that doesn't mean a person's opinion about the person can't be changed. One can make a really bad first impression on someone, yet they can still later become best friends. Likewise, one can make a really good first impression on someone, and still end up being hated by that person. First impressions remain as facts, but opinions are changeable. If you make a bad first impression, then you can't change that, but if you make a good enough of an impression to the same person later, the person will decide that the first impression is irrelevant, at least unless you give a bad impression again some other time.

The thing is though, if you make a bad impression on someone, yet want to be that someone's friend, then it's your job to make an effort to give off a better impression. If you both end up giving each other bad impressions of yourself, then neither of you is likely to want to be the other's friend, and thus no problem is born... unless you're supposed to be working together. Then it can get awkward for both of you.



It's not that they assume that, it's that young men having sexual motives while talking to young women is seen as okay, while old men talking to young women having sexual motives is seen as not. Same old men talking to women their own age would be another story. Of course, it depends on culture and such, too; on some cultures it's more acceptable for middle aged and older men to go after women who've barely reached adulthood than in others.

I don't think its the way I talk, I think its the fact of my talking.

I seen some guys talk to girls in a flirty way and quite frankly I can't do it even if I wanted to: the way I talk comes across as flat and emotionless. And the good thing about it is that I know its not going to be flirty.

But again, people might still assume this is my intention, even if it doesn't come across that way. I think the way their mind works is that since I have a flat affect, I don't have any human emotions. So why would I possibly talk to someone without having any emotional needs? Got to be because of sex. I know I don't want sex but maybe others don't.



Well, the fact that it is usually people on the spectrum who are loners for years is precisely the reason why I resent it. I want to enjoy the kind of life the NTs have, for once.



And this is also unfair. People who need support the most are the exact people who are deprived of it.

By the way, I have seen people being for each other in the hard times (whether it be struggling together with stressful assignment or complaining about their friends). So it is frustrating that when their friends do it they look at them as humans who need a support, but when someone like me does it, they see me as a nuisance to get away from.



Yeah, thats true. I won't approach anyone to complain, but if they are the ones to approach me then I would oftentimes turn the conversation to complaining sooner or later (oftentimes even within 10 minutes of the conversation, if it lasts that long).

I don't always do that though. In fact I can name some places where I complained, and I can name some other ones where I didn't. But I haven't made friends in any of them.

I guess one argument against complaining is that there is that one church where people do seem happy to see me when I visit, and it just happened to be the one where I haven't been complaining. But it doesn't have to be this connection. It could, instead, be the fact that I wasn't going there that often so they want to know how I have been all those months they haven't seen me.

In any case, all in all, people don't seem to talk to me regardless of whether I complain or not. Although I do recall some examples when complaining pushed people away. I also recall examples where it helped too. But the number of times it pushed them away was far greater. That plus when it pushed them away it pushed them away for real, while the times that it "helped" they were only pretending to like me to make me feel better. So, on a balance, I do see why complaining makes it worse.

I do remember one time when complaining helped though. Back when I was 24, I walked into a herbal store and asked them to help me find natural suppliments that would help me with social skills. They actually tried to talked to me and told me I could visit them any time if I ever want friends. I wasn't actually hoping for this at all, I was genuinely focused on the suppliments, and I was on my way somewhere so I kinda ignored them. I felt bad ever since that I didn't take up that offer.

But then again, I was 24. So I guess they have more sympathy for someone 24 than someone 42. I had a few examples far more recent of people trying to talk to me because I complained, but they all sounded fake and/or pity, so I dismissed them for the most part. But that incident at 24 seemed a lot more genuine so I really wish to go back to that time and take that opportunity.

Or could it be that asking for a supplement is different than complaining since I am trying to do something pro-active? Just like people would sympathize more with someone trying to go on a diet as opposed to someone simply complaining about their weight without doing anything about it?



I could try I guess.

I just really wish they could support me in the issues I am struggling with. But maybe I can just tell myself that I would get a lot more support from them if I wait with it till later. Maybe its an instant gratification type of thing that makes it hard to do. Incidentally I didn't complain at some of the churches I went to, but I have at tohers



When it comes to values such as education or religion, one can articulate them. But when it comes to hygine one can't. So its kind of like "being dismissed by default, without any reason given" which hurts.



I guess its because I assume they are on drugs, or they don't want to work, and both of those things contradicts my values.

I am not on drugs. If people assume that I am, then it hurts too.



By first impression they are not talking about something that "chronologically happened to be first". They are talking about its role as an opinion of a person as a whole. So when they were saying you can't change it, they were saying the opinion of a person would always be colored by this.

I guess you disagree with this. I am wondering whether it is a cultural thing? Could it be that the first impression plays bigger role in America than in Finland?



Would they also assume that the woman trying to talk to a man is flirting too?

If so, there were a couple of cashiers that kept trying to talk to me back when I was in my early 20-s, and I kept ignoring them because it was late at night and I wanted to go home and go to bed. But now I am regretting it because I keep wondering whether they were trying to flirt with me and I missed those two opportunities of having a girlfriend.

And no, I don't mean the ladies at the herbal store. In those cases I know they were just trying to be friends. Instead, I am talking about one lady at a supermarket and the other lady at Jimmy Jones. Both of the latter two ladies kept trying to talk to me repeatedly, while at the herbal store it was just one time.

They're customer-service people. I highly doubt they were trying to flirt with you.

I made the same mistake. I thought people who are nice to me in stores were flirting with me, and wanted me to ask them out. Turns out they didn't want that!

Sometimes, in truth, I get myself believing that some cashier or other might dig me, somehow. At least 90% of the time, this feeling is wrong. But, at the time of the situation, I feel my ego rising, and my juices flowing. Of course, I'm married, so even if they did have the desire......

One thing that makes me wonder in those two cases (one in Minneapolis, the other in Ann Arbor) is that they had three or four cashiers, yet it was always that girl that kept trying to be the one helping me and, even if I was helped by someone else, she would still try to talk to me regardless (well, obviously these two girls are different girls, I am saying in singular because in Minneapolis it was just one, and in Ann Arbor it was just one).

In Minneapolis, there was one time when I overheard the following conversation:

The girl: I am in love with that guy
The guy: Whom?
The girl: Comes in here, never talks

I have been puzzled ever since whether or not she was referring to me. Because I can argue both ways:

a) People typically don't talk about others in front of them. This means that "that guy" must have been someone NOT in that store at that moment, which logically excludes me

b) If "that guy" wasn't me, how was she expecting him to understand who it was, if she wasn't naming him by name? Now, its true: he didn't understand who it was. *But* the point is that she *thought* he would understand. So since she thought he would understand, it suggests it was me

c) "Comes in here, never talks" perfectly describes my behavior (particularly when she kept trying to chat me up and I kept giving her short answers as I kept looking forward to going home and getting to bed). Now if there was somone else who also never talks this would be quite a bit of coincidence, wouldn't it.

So "a" makes me think its not me, while "b" and "c" makes me think it is me. So I am kinda puzzled.

Now the above happened in Minneapolis.

As far as Ann Arbor, no she haven't said anything of that nature. But there, too, she kept talking to me despite other cashiers were around. And there was one incident when one of the other cashiers -- a male -- specifically called her because I came over.

I generally get on better with older or younger people. Those my own age seem to see me as a threat, for some reason, they seem intimidated by me.

My best friends currently are 35 and 70. I'm 53.

...Yeah no. While there might be some particular women that will think you're flirting with them just because you're talking to them, most won't think that if you clearly aren't. Then again, I've heard a lot of women say that men end up thinking that they (the women) are flirting with them when they as much as smile at them and I've seen some men here in WP say the kind of things that a woman being kind to you = flirting, so I suppose it's not that surprising that you have such a misconception. But yeah, to make things clear: a woman being kind and/or talking to you doesn't necessarily mean she's flirting with you, and talking to a woman won't make her think you're flirting with her in most cases.

If you wanna play it safe, avoid commenting their appearance in any way or talking about anything relationship related because those are the likeliest things to be considered flirting.



Lots of NTs are loners too though; it's not some magic key to happiness.
But well, if you want to have friends... you probably already know what I'm gonna suggest, don't you?



Imagine that you're having a really good day, and then some random person you don't know starts whining and complaining to you about things that have nothing to do with you. What would you do? Would you be annoyed by the person who has nothing to do with you and whose problem has nothing to do with you either, or would you forget whatever plans you had and be there for that person even though that person has never done anything for you to deserve it?
Likewise, imagine having a really bad day and you're busy and then some rando comes rolling in whining and moaning about something that's got nothing to do with you. Again, would you drop everything you have to do in order to please this random person who's never done anything for you in order to deserve it?

I would assume the answer to both is no. The thing is, people don't tend to use their precious resources (in this case, their time) on random strangers, but it's completely different if the person is a friend. With a friend, they can, or at least they assume they can, count on the favor being returned one way or the other. Plus, people tend to feel bad a lot more likely if a friend is feeling bad than if a stranger is feeling bad, and thus be likelier to want to help.

You want people to help you out? Put in the effort and form bonds first; one doesn't make friends by loading all their burdens on random people.

The one exception to this rule I can think of are some type of peer support groups: in those, speaking about problems is often the idea of those gatherings, so talking about one's problems is a given. Plus, there's usually someone leading the meeting, so that someone is likely to step in if someone is keeping a too long of a monologue. So, if you can't keep yourself from complaining to people, maybe you should find some kind of peer support group (for aspies, for loners etc.) to complain in?



Now there's a very solid reason for your lack of friends. People don't like having other people's troubles dumped on them; that's what therapists are for. Even if these people were your friends, there would certainly be a limit to how much whining they would stand. Yes, even friends have limits with each other.

In a conversation, if people ask how you're doing and you're doing bad, you can mention it briefly, but do not have a monologue. If someone asks how you're doing and you're, say, having trouble with some school work, you can answer with: "Oh fine, aside from some trouble with school work." And then you leave the complaint at that and ask how the other person is doing. If the person asks what kind of trouble you're having at school, then you can share a little more detail since the person is interested on some level, but again, don't turn it in to a lecture and remember to ask about the other person's life as well and talk about what she/he wants to say, too.



True, it could be a coincidence, but I'd dare say it's likelier that it isn't.



Sales trick. The more often you'd drop by, the more likely it'd be that you'd buy more of their products. Of course, the sales person might've also been genuine, but I'd say it was a sales trick first and foremost.



This one didn't occur to me, but yes, it does make a lot of sense. People are more likely to want to help someone if the person acts like they want to do something about the problem themselves instead of just complaining.



Yeah, you probably would. But why do you get some instant gratification when you complain? It can't really be from people's reactions since they don't react to your complaints the way you'd like them to. So, why is the complaining so addicting to you?



Yes they can? "I'm dismissing you 'cause you smell." Isn't that a clear articulation? Or are you saying that they don't say it out loud? But I don't think people who'd dismiss others due to education or the lack of it would be loudly and clearly articulating their reasons, either, so I don't see how there's a difference.



And in the same way you could be hurting those homeless people by making your assumptions. If it's okay for you to make assumptions about others, then it's also okay for others to make assumptions about you.

Now, you might want to argue that those homeless people might be dangerous and that it's better safe than sorry, and that's true, but other people have the equal right to make the same assumption and argument about you. The fact that it hurts you isn't any more or any less valid than the fact that it hurts others when you do it. If you're allowed to avoid homeless people in order to feel safer, others are allowed to avoid you to feel safer. If you don't want others to feel threatened by your presence, figure out what it is about you that pushes people away instead of just complaining.

Remember that one bus story you once gave? When you yelled at the bus driver about... something? I don't remember the details, but if I saw an adult throw a tantrum like the one you described, I would consider it safer to avoid the said adult.



No, I don't disagree. The first impression will always be there to have an impact, unless someone literally forgets what their first impression was, but with enough good impressions, a bad first impression can be covered up. It's not forgotten, but people can decide that the other, positive encounters matter more. Of course, the worse the first impression is, the more good impressions you need to make up for it.



For some reason or the other, the stereotype isn't as strong the other way around. Perhaps because guys making a move on girls has been more socially acceptable for so long?

Impossible to say about that. It could be the case, but it could also be that they were very social women who liked to chat with pretty much anyone.

Yes. Had no idea I was even all that forbiddingly weird until Silent Generation stopped being my employers. Boomers could be okay to be around if they were mellow hippies, but my generation and younger, I come off like a stiff, uncomfortable prude (I'm not, but the autism makes it hard for me to loosen up around NTs let alone normies), and it's even worse with younger people because basically having different choices means to them that you categorically hate theirs which for me couldn't be further from the truth.

I used to sit and talk with old people at the mall on the weekends when I was lonely/bored, and had a few I looked forward to seeing. I worked doing elder care later. With the people I dated - I didn't give good parent, but I gave good grandparent. Also, I had friends who were weird Boomer hippies, counterculture gay people, sci fi types, and polymaths.

I have a low effort mask that gets along well with traditional people from other cultures, and Silent Generation people.

The funny thing is, now I get along well with younger people. I am with someone a bit younger. But I have some friends who are half my age, and I'm the elder goth "mom friend."

Just to say I'd rather talk to a man who sounds more flat and emotionless. I feel threatened talking to a flirty man, it is uncomfortable as I don't know what his intentions are.