Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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SkinnedWolf
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22 May 2022, 10:33 am

I'm curious in how many countries is it considered acceptable to require minority citizens to master their official language (but not necessarily as the only language).
As a resident of a homogenized civilized country, I lack the concept of this.
In China, I am not aware of the situation in ethnic minority areas with independent languages. It is taken for granted that users of various dialects in other regions (using the same script but with different pronunciation and even grammar) need to learn a standard language. I'm a bilingual speaker of one dialect and standard Chinese, and it didn't bother me.

Also, for the Ukraine issue. I've heard that there is actually quite a high level of commonality between Slavic languages (both spoken and written).
Does this mean that it's actually fairly easy to master another language, or to be able to communicate to some extent without ever learning another language?


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Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 22 May 2022, 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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22 May 2022, 10:39 am

I am curious why the propaganda machines of both Russia and the CCP have, almost simultaneously, “leaked” similar rumors about their respective leaders’s ill health.



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22 May 2022, 10:42 am

The United States does not have an “official language,” though almost all pertinent governmental actions are done in English, with translations to quite a few other languages available.



SkinnedWolf
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22 May 2022, 10:52 am

Fnord wrote:
I am curious why the propaganda machines of both Russia and the CCP have, almost simultaneously, “leaked” similar rumors about their respective leaders’s ill health.

I googled the keyword "Xi Jinping, health" in Chinese.
The fastest found results show that the time nodes of similar remarks are as follows:
05/05/2019
09/30/2021 (BBC)
12/17/2021
05/20/2022 (The Epoch Times)

This seems to be a long-standing saying.
It is reasonable to suspect that this is because the "simultaneous" one attracted more attention.


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Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 22 May 2022, 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

magz
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22 May 2022, 10:53 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Also, for the Ukraine issue. I've heard that there is actually quite a high level of commonality between Slavic languages (both spoken and written).
Does this mean that it's actually fairly easy to master another language, or to be able to communicate to some extent without ever learning another language?
It is relatively easy, many words differ only by phonem shifts.


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SkinnedWolf
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22 May 2022, 11:13 am

magz wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
Also, for the Ukraine issue. I've heard that there is actually quite a high level of commonality between Slavic languages (both spoken and written).
Does this mean that it's actually fairly easy to master another language, or to be able to communicate to some extent without ever learning another language?
It is relatively easy, many words differ only by phonem shifts.

Ah, I can probably understand why there are native Russian speakers voting for it.

In the area where I live, and the Cantonese-speaking areas I've heard of, the mere or deliberate use of dialect is sometimes associated with extreme conservativeness and exclusion of outsiders. Certain groups price gouging or discriminate on the grounds that outsiders do not speak the local dialect.


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magz
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22 May 2022, 11:28 am

FWIK, Cantonese is completely different from Mandarin, including different set of tones - but they have similar structure, so people can communicate writing in Chinese script.

The only Cantonese/Mandarin example I know is that tea/chai come from the same Chinese symbol, read in either Cantonese or Mandarin.

Slavic languages are similar to each other, enough to make learning them on communicative level really easy. Subtleties of grammar, accent and single different words can be forgiven in a typical conversation.


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SkinnedWolf
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22 May 2022, 11:55 am

magz wrote:
FWIK, Cantonese is completely different from Mandarin, including different set of tones - but they have similar structure, so people can communicate writing in Chinese script.

The only Cantonese/Mandarin example I know is that tea/chai come from the same Chinese symbol, read in either Cantonese or Mandarin.

Slavic languages are similar to each other, enough to make learning them on communicative level really easy. Subtleties of grammar, accent and single different words can be forgiven in a typical conversation.

Dialects and different languages seem to be a spectrum. And different countries have different definitions for it.
Cantonese is not one of the Chinese dialects that differs most in speaking from standard Chinese.
But the dialect has gained more international attention because of the area's prominent immigration to other countries and local thriving international trade.

I have a roommate who is a native Cantonese speaker. When she speaks Cantonese, I can understand a fraction of what I'm concentrating on.
Cantonese songs are part of Chinese popular culture and many people sing Cantonese songs.


I don't think it's unacceptable to ask for learning a more common language if it doesn't add too much burden and helps with communication and reducing barriers, without force abandonment of the native language.


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22 May 2022, 12:33 pm

magz wrote:
It means native Russian speakers also support it.


Questionable to believe that the government at that time and especially now was or is truly representative of the whole population... but even if true, it doesn't make it right or very clever.

magz wrote:
BTW, how much do you know about linguistic politics in Ukraine in USSR time?


More than most I suspect, but as always, two wrongs don't make a right.


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magz
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22 May 2022, 12:53 pm

Mikah wrote:
magz wrote:
It means native Russian speakers also support it.

Questionable to believe that the government at that time and especially now was or is truly representative of the whole population... but even if true, it doesn't make it right or very clever.
magz wrote:
BTW, how much do you know about linguistic politics in Ukraine in USSR time?
More than most I suspect, but as always, two wrongs don't make a right.
Traditional Ukrainian "elites" are Russian-speakers. The majority of Ukrainians are Russian-speakers.
They're imposing these laws on themselves, not on some segregated minority.
And even if they didn't, it would not justify a genocidal invasion by any bit.

Lithuanians for long opposed Polish spelling of last names and bilingual signs in places with large Polish communities. There were frictions over it but no one even remotely dreamed of involving the military! That's not how you settle such conflicts. That's how you harm people.


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22 May 2022, 2:10 pm

Russia’s war on Ukraine based on flawed logic, Chinese military scholar wrote in article scrubbed from the web

Russia has chosen a path ‘long forsaken by human civilisation’, military scholar and Sino-Vietnam war veteran Gong Fangbin says
Gong is among a small but growing number of Chinese intellectuals voicing scepticism about Moscow’s rationale behind invading Ukraine

Jun Mai in Beijing

Published: 6:00pm, 21 May, 2022

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... e-military

"
Russia’s security rationale for attacking Ukraine was flawed and the aftermath underlines the importance of diplomatic flexibility, a Chinese scholar formerly with Beijing’s top military academy has said.

“I still don’t see how any country would have dared to invade the world’s No 2 military power,” Gong Fangbin, a retired professor of the People’s Liberation Army National Defence University, wrote in a recent online article.

“Russia has shown the world time and again that no one dares touch an inch of its land,” he said, countering Moscow’s argument that it was cornered by the West and Nato into invading Ukraine.

“What’s the real reason [for Moscow] to attack Ukraine? I think it’s because the Russian leaders have taken the wrong path for rejuvenation.”

Gong argued that the rationale to attack Ukraine over so-called security concerns was flawed. And the dilemma faced by Russia as it took heavy losses on the ground was the result of having chosen a path “long forsaken by human civilisation”, he wrote in his article posted on WeChat last Tuesday.

The article, however, has since disappeared from the social media platform.

Gong confirmed to the Post that he wrote the article but declined a request for an interview.
"


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magz
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23 May 2022, 7:07 am

As if the war wasn't bad enough itself...
As if the looming food crisis caused by it wasn't alarming enough...
Image
War is very bad for the natural environment.

Heavy shelling of industrial installations that have happened in Mariupol results in urgent need for intervention of international professionals. Chances for leaks in tanks with thousands of tonnes of concentrated H2S solution in Azovstal are very high.
https://www.newsweek.com/mariupol-steel ... ne-1707820


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23 May 2022, 7:41 am


I found something interesting. This video is from March 8th.

As far back as I can remember, at that time, the average level of support for Russia on the Chinese internet was higher than reflected in this video (and now the tide has turned). This may be due to the sampling environment being Shanghai, and Shanghainese have less populist tendencies.

Below are the exact corrections to the translation proposed form the comments section.

Quote:
1:05 "I personally think the invasion is quite extreme" should be "I personally think the word 'invasion' is too extreme"
5:10 "We shouldn't step in because this is Ukraine's issue" should be "We shouldn't step in because Ukraine is the one who provoked Russia"
14:36 "First of all, the US has Taiwan's back..." should be "First of all, Taiwan's boss, the US, won't agree to it"
6:15 "We won't abandon the situation either" should be "we also won't send weapons to (either Ukraine or Russia)" from user Rhapsody in comments
6:59 “China and Russia can be considered as allies in jointly confronting the United States…so-called allies; at least they have a common so-called enemy.” His using “so-called” made it clear that the relationship with Russia in fact is not an official alliance and the US is not officially an enemy. When omitting “so-called”, the translation missed what he said.

There are some other rather interesting additions to the video's comment section.
At 9:49, the girl refers to "Xi" as "Winnie the Pooh". No secret police took her away. :skull:


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23 May 2022, 1:54 pm

Putin Survived Assassination Attempt Two Months Ago, Ukraine Official Says

Quote:
Russian President Vladimir Putin survived an assassination attempt two months ago, just after he announced the invasion of Ukraine, the country's chief spy has claimed.

Ukraine's Chief of Defence Intelligence Kyrylo Budanov claimed Putin, 69, was attacked in an "unsuccessful attempt" to kill him around two months ago when he was in the Caucasus—an area comprised of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and parts of Southern Russia—only days into the Ukraine invasion.


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23 May 2022, 6:13 pm

It was said before that Russia doesn't even have their nuclear warheads in their ICBMs and they have to be put in manually. Is this true?



magz
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24 May 2022, 2:33 am

ironpony wrote:
It was said before that Russia doesn't even have their nuclear warheads in their ICBMs and they have to be put in manually. Is this true?
From what I know, it is true. Warheads and rockets are stored separately.


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