Asperger's and Sociopathy

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I have to agree.

Denying the reality that people can meet the diagnostic criteria for both ASPD and ASD and that some children with ASD also get diagnosed with conduct disorders won't alter that reality. No one's feelings will alter those facts.

End of discussion.

What feelings?

What "reality"?

you're theory that the two opposite conditions are the same is illogical. il LOGIC cal.

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I am coming at this from the inside of the condition looking out. So I dont care what a bunch of stupid incompentent healthcare workers who cant get their diagnosis straight say. I have lived with one of the conditions all of my life, and have observed a person with another conditions up close.

What you SEEM to be saying is that I, an officially diagnosed aspie, am closer to being like Bernie Madoff, than are the NTs who make up most of humanity. If that is true then why arent I a billionaire like Madoff was before he got busted? Or even one percent of being Bernie Madoff?

I wish I were a sociopath-so I could manipulate the world to do my bidding the way sociopaths can. But most NTs are better at that than I am, and closer to being Bernie Madoff than I am. Or seem to be.

But according to your counterintuitive theory- I already AM that... I am already like one two percent Bernie Madoff, and am destined for babes and riches. Thats all I ask-- to be one percent of Bernie Madoff!

So...explain that to me- in colloquial terms. How can that be possible?

And in fact, when I was 18, I used to hang with a dude (who was my "opposite") who probably WAS sociopath (now that I look back), and just couldnt do it. Could not handle taking on sociopathic traits from him.

There could be a small minority of autistic people who might fit some of the criteria for sociopathy/psychopathy.

But to say there’s a correlation between autism and socio/psychopathy goes way beyond the pale.

Psychopathy, to Hans Asperger, meant only a deviation from the “norm”—not the present-day definition.

People of a sociopathic/psychopathic disposition could very well use autism as an excuse for their misdeeds.

They must be a very small minority. I have not met an autistic person who doesn't naturally obey rules. Those who think they're above the law tend to have hugely inflated ego, which is not exactly an autistic trait. And criminals are associated with higher levels of testosterone, which is... not an autistic trait, right?

The use of outdated terms and the constant ego stroking on these types of threads makes it hard for me to take them seriously. Autistic people aren't immune to developing ASPD, and I've met plenty of autistic people who go out of their way to break rules and choose to violate other people's rights (some on forums like this, though they don't seem to last long here). Pretending that we are somehow so moral that we're immune to things like this is hilarious.

For starters, your notion that ASPD and ASD are somehow opposites isn't consistent with any work relating to ASPD. Just because pop culture sociopaths are all like Patrick Bateman and the one guy you've known that you chosen to label a sociopath (despite your lack of credentials) fit that profile doesn't mean that's actually an accurate profile of ASPD.

We already know kids can be diagnosed with conduct disorders and with autism. Are these kids faking autism to manipulate those around them, or are they autistic and also displaying the criteria for being diagnosed with conduct disorders?

We already know many kids with autism go undiagnosed until well into adulthood, this would include at least some kids who would fall into the previous category had they been diagnosed properly when young. When and if these people are finally diagnosed with autism you'll hear some posters here whining that they don't want those people diagnosed but I would trust the experts who evaluated them over some outraged schmuck on a forum who's tired of terrible autistic people still counting as autistic people.

Your entire rebuttal seems to hinge on your lack of social skills but since no one's suggested that you're an example of meeting both diagnostic criteria your self-identified lack of social skills isn't relevant to the topic, now is it? I'm not suggesting that any individual with autism is "closer to being like Bernie Madoff" or anything along those lines. If I've said that, please show me where or concede you're making s**t up because you don't have a better argument.

All I've said (and I believe I've been very clear) is that one can meet the diagnostic criteria for ASD and also meet the criteria for ASPD.

Disregard for the well-being of others, difficulty controlling impulses, poor emotional regulation and lacking a conscience are diagnostic criteria for ASPD.
Being charming is not.
Having better than average social skills is not.

ADHD is a common comorbidity with both autism and ASPD and is almost certainly more relevant than autism, the fact that ADHD is more likely to diagnosed in the autistic population means ASPD probably isn't less common than average in the autistic community.

While ASPD is rare in all populations insisting that no one meets the criteria for both ASD and ASPD is objectively false.

well I dont know if it is a rant either, bad choice of word on my part. Id explain further but need to look for other confusing s**t I said yesterday, which is likely a lot.

there is actually a study that gets posted around here that may shed light on this in an off the cuff way.

Comorbid ADHD, conduct disorder explains link between autism, violence

https://www.healio.com/news/psychiatry/ ... m-violence

Im guessing its impulse vs a mule like insistence to think before acting?,

I don't understand "masking" and autism here. I'm assuming it means a lack of nonverbal ques and inability to get get things across socially? That's not really a mask, as a mask is intentionally used to conceal things. Someone with autism, and the aforementioned deficits here, isn't intending to hide their thoughts/feelings, they just can't get them across. It can make someone with autism look cold and uncaring, but inside it's not that at all.
Someone with autism isn't going to be intentionally cruel to others because of the autism.

Which ironically, makes them prey for psychopaths/sociopaths/narcissists as they're easy targets.

Looking into it:

"Masking" by mimicking the behavior of those without autism to fit in better. Mimicking [social norms] would be a better term to use IMO, but it doesn't matter. I do that one by stopping myself from lecturing because I know it can be annoying. Whereas others may try to make eye contact even though it's uncomfortable.

The intent behind it is the difference that will separate the antisocial types and those with autism, which isn't hard to figure out.

It would definitely be more likely to be an issue for those who are most prone to impulsive behaviour and far less likely to be an issue for those who are least prone towards impulsive behaviour.

Part of the article you link to explains why I feel it's important to not ignore or dismiss the potential for individuals to meet the criteria for both ASD and conduct disorders.



If someone displays signs of both providing adequate support and intervention seems appropriate to help ensure that person is able to participate in and contribute to society to the best of their abilities. Helping people with both, especially kids who have both might be one of the most reasonable areas to focus attention due to how difficult that combination would be, both for the person in question but also for their caregivers and other supports.

So long as those people haven't offended I'd prefer to keep those people out of a pipeline towards prison. I don't think treating people with stigmatized neurological or mental health conditions is a good look. Even less so when it comes from people who also happen to fall into that category.

Folks with ASPD are likely to tell any lie if they think it will benefit them. Being an aspie seems like a fairly bad choice. But then if it's the only explanation people might buy into to explain bad behavior, it may be worth it.

Again, I've got to ask; are the young kids who get diagnosed with both conduct disorders and autism lying or manipulating those around them into supporting the autism diagnosis or might it be more reasonable to believe that the autism diagnosis is valid?

While it's also possible that a person with ASPD could fake having autism, that doesn't mean that's the only viable explanation and it would be silly to insist that's the only viable explanation for cases where both diagnostic labels have been applied unless of course you're an expert who has evaluated the person in question.

This might be a stretch. Could someone on the spectrum actually be a good long term relationship fit for someone with ASPD? They both need love on some basic level.