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Pepe
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23 Apr 2022, 7:52 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Like Russia, the CCP is the aggressor here.
Positions from Taiwan and "Washington" are only defensive.
If a war breaks out over Taiwan, it will be the CCP who will initiate it by invading a sovereign nation.

1992 Consensus
At least half of Taiwan's political parties disagree with you.
The 1992 consensus stated that both the Chinese Communist Party and the Kuomintang agreed that there was "only one China".
Survey results in 2018 showed that Taiwanese accepted and rejected the consensus evenly.


Yes, yes, I have heard that "legalese", but Taiwan is an autonomous country that doesn't want to be part of China under the CCP.
I consider it a sovereign/independent democratic nation, semantics be damned. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


magz
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23 Apr 2022, 8:03 am

Pepe wrote:
NATO is no actual threat, in terms of invasion, to Russia.
It is a *defensive* alliance. :wink:
It is defensive not only by name but also by its construction.
If a NATO member is attacked, art 5 says everyone helps defend them. But if a NATO member attacks first (like US in Iraq), the alliance has no obligation to help at all, even in case of a counter-attack.
So, by its construction, it not only protects the members from being attacked, but also discourages them from launching attacks themselves.

Draining blood out of Russia in Ukraine is likely to significantly weaken Russia, at least for a few decades. That's what happened as a result of Russian-Afghan war in 1980s.

I think China don't want new iron curtain, that would have been bad for business. They didn't want this war at all, but as it has happened, the best outcome for China would be weakened Russia as their ally/satelite. So they won't condemn Russia but also won't help them.

I don't find China "only hope" for Ukraine. Ukraine's "only hope" are Ukrainians first and then everyone willing to help them.


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SkinnedWolf
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23 Apr 2022, 8:18 am

Pepe wrote:
Yes, yes, I have heard that "legalese", but Taiwan is an autonomous country that doesn't want to be part of China under the CCP.
I consider it a sovereign/independent democratic nation, semantics be damned. 8)

Your statement would be more persuasive if Canberra acknowledged this and established formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan.


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Pepe
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23 Apr 2022, 8:19 am

magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
NATO is no actual threat, in terms of invasion, to Russia.
It is a *defensive* alliance. :wink:
It is defensive not only by name but also by its construction.
If a NATO member is attacked, art 5 says everyone helps defend them. But if a NATO member attacks first (like US in Iraq), the alliance has no obligation to help at all, even in case of a counter-attack.
So, by its construction, it not only protects the members from being attacked, but also discourages them from launching attacks themselves.

Draining blood out of Russia in Ukraine is likely to significantly weaken Russia, at least for a few decades. That's what happened as a result of Russian-Afghan war in 1980s.

I think China don't want new iron curtain, that would have been bad for business. They didn't want this war at all, but as it has happened, the best outcome for China would be weakened Russia as their ally/satelite. So they won't condemn Russia but also won't help them.

I don't find China "only hope" for Ukraine. Ukraine's "only hope" are Ukrainians first and then everyone willing to help them.


As I said, The CCP would like Russia to be its "biatch". 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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23 Apr 2022, 8:21 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Yes, yes, I have heard that "legalese", but Taiwan is an autonomous country that doesn't want to be part of China under the CCP.
I consider it a sovereign/independent democratic nation, semantics be damned. 8)

Your statement would be more persuasive if Canberra acknowledged this and established formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan.


I am not "Canberra". 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


SkinnedWolf
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23 Apr 2022, 8:25 am

Pepe wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Yes, yes, I have heard that "legalese", but Taiwan is an autonomous country that doesn't want to be part of China under the CCP.
I consider it a sovereign/independent democratic nation, semantics be damned. 8)

Your statement would be more persuasive if Canberra acknowledged this and established formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan.


I am not "Canberra". 8)

Really? I thought Australia is a democratic country?
Perhaps convincing other Australians will help.:wink:


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SkinnedWolf
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23 Apr 2022, 8:52 am

magz wrote:
I think China don't want new iron curtain, that would have been bad for business. They didn't want this war at all, but as it has happened, the best outcome for China would be weakened Russia as their ally/satelite. So they won't condemn Russia but also won't help them.

Very close to the Chinese official statement.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Sino-Russian cooperation has no upper limit, and Sino-Russian relations are not aligned, confrontational, or targeting third parties
Quote:
According to CCTV News, on March 30, Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin hosted a regular press conference. Wang Wenbin said, there is no upper limit to Sino-Russian cooperation. We strive for peace without limit, safeguard security without limit, and oppose hegemony without limit. Sino-Russian relations are not aligned, confrontational, or targeting third parties.

Wang Wenbin: ...Under the current situation, the international community should say more things that are conducive to dialogue and negotiation, and do more things that are conducive to dialogue and negotiation. We support Russia and Ukraine to continue the talks, negotiate results, and negotiate peace. We must be vigilant and prevent fueling the fire and intensifying conflicts, so as not to set up obstacles and increase resistance to solving problems through diplomatic means.

Reporter: Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said today that Russia and China agreed to expand cooperation in addressing international challenges. Can China brief us on what aspects of cooperation will be included, and will it include military cooperation?

Wang Wenbin: As permanent members of the UN Security Council, China and Russia have always adhered to the principle of non-alignment, non-confrontation, and non-targeting of third countries to develop bilateral relations. The two sides will continue to practice genuine multilateralism and are committed to promoting world multi-polarization and democratization of international relations.

Reporter: Will China condemn Russia?

Wang Wenbin: As for the question of whether to condemn or not, we have stated China's position many times. I think if we continue to dwell on this issue, we will be behind the situation...

Note: Bold text was added at source.
The last sentence in the quote is...ahem...very unprofessional. But that's what it means. China doesn't condemn Russia.

Beijing will only prevent the Putin regime from dying.
Beijing will not help Russia's war against Ukraine, nor is it likely to help Ukraine itself.


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magz
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23 Apr 2022, 9:10 am

That makes sense. I always interpreted Chinese government as consistently pragmatic - and from pragmatic point of view, free of Russian hurt ego, it all makes no sense. They probably don't care for Ukrainians at all but the cost of war and general disruption are unwelcome.


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SkinnedWolf
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24 Apr 2022, 12:06 am

Another piece of evidence supporting Beijing's ignorance of Putin's war plans.

On February 17, U.S. Secretary of State Blinken said in a speech at the United Nations Security Council that U.S. intelligence showed that Russia was on the path to war and planned to attack Ukraine in the next few days.

February 19, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said on Weibo that "U.S. intelligence is a joke".
(He is a very aggressive spokesman, and he is the source of the evaluation of "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy")

This has resulted in a large number of overseas Chinese stranded in Ukraine.
(And, leading to Zhao Lijian being ridiculed on the Chinese Internet.)


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The 'skinned wolf' is actually a type of fish

Find communicators about interests please PM me


Pepe
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24 Apr 2022, 1:16 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Yes, yes, I have heard that "legalese", but Taiwan is an autonomous country that doesn't want to be part of China under the CCP.
I consider it a sovereign/independent democratic nation, semantics be damned. 8)

Your statement would be more persuasive if Canberra acknowledged this and established formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan.


I am not "Canberra". 8)

Really? I thought Australia is a democratic country?
Perhaps convincing other Australians will help.:wink:


Quote:
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."


Thinking I can convince anyone, through a rational argument, is a childish thing I have put away. 8)

Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: One, but the lightbulb has got to want to change. :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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24 Apr 2022, 1:21 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Beijing will not help Russia's war against Ukraine, nor is it likely to help Ukraine itself.


I hope this is correct.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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24 Apr 2022, 1:25 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Another piece of evidence supporting Beijing's ignorance of Putin's war plans.

On February 17, U.S. Secretary of State Blinken said in a speech at the United Nations Security Council that U.S. intelligence showed that Russia was on the path to war and planned to attack Ukraine in the next few days.

February 19, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said on Weibo that "U.S. intelligence is a joke".
(He is a very aggressive spokesman, and he is the source of the evaluation of "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy")

This has resulted in a large number of overseas Chinese stranded in Ukraine.
(And, leading to Zhao Lijian being ridiculed on the Chinese Internet.)


This is what has been suggested to me:
pootin had talks with xi.
pootin agreed not to invade Ukraine until after the Chinese Olympic Games were over.
pootin waited for the Olympic games to be over. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.