Page 1 of 1 [ 16 posts ] 

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,731

07 Mar 2022, 3:53 pm

I am observing that people who try and either speak/post links about the actions of Ukrainian soldiers or Ukrainian mafia and/or the Russian perspective in the war are being cancelled as "spreading pro-Russian propaganda"?.

I am not going to comment about events outside of Australia as I seem to be regularly told that I have no business to speak on politics etc. in other countries. Fine.

I find myself curiously in the same boat as some right wingers though. Ben Fordham a regular contributor on Sky News has been blasted by the media/public for questioning why a person who tried to speak on Russian perspective in the war was thrown out of an ABC Q&A television program for trying speak his mind?
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/t ... c99907e0b9

Fordham correctly pointed out the man has only commented “Believe it or not, there are a lot of Russians here and around the world that support what Putin is doing in the (sic) Ukraine – myself included,” the questioner said.

Speaking on his 2GB talk back program on Friday morning, Fordham suggested the host (Stan Grant) was pressured by producers of the ABC program to remove the man.

“Someone got in Stan’s ear, because it took him 20 minutes and then he decided Sasha had to go,” Fordham said.

“It sounded to me like Stan Grant lost control of his own show.”

Fordham questioned the decision to remove the man at all, saying the whole idea of the program was to have “robust debate”

“Obviously, we don’t support what Russia’s doing, but I don’t think this guy … was advocating violence,” Fordham said.

“He’s a Russian living in Australia and he’s standing up for his own country.”

Maybe I was wrong after all. Cancel culture does exist.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,864
Location: Poland

07 Mar 2022, 4:00 pm

Oh yes, cancel culture exists.
Right now in Russia, you can get up to 15 years in prison for talking about this war in a way not approved by Kremlin. That includes even calling it a war.
They shut down f-book, twitter, youtube and they are working on disconnecting from global internet.

You got a reprimend (not from me) because attacks on ethnicities are forbidden on WP. This is one of the boundaries of free speech called WP rules.

Please, drop this topic if you can't navigate it within the rules.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


VegetableMan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,053
Location: Illinois

07 Mar 2022, 4:29 pm

I'll always be opposed to censorship of any views, regardless of the nature of them. Free expression of ideas, right or wrong, needs to be preserved. That should be obvious to everyone.


_________________
What do you call a hot dog in a gangster suit?

Oscar Meyer Lansky


The_Znof
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,068
Location: Vancouver Canada

07 Mar 2022, 4:38 pm

magz wrote:


You got a reprimend (not from me) because attacks on ethnicities are forbidden on WP. This is one of the boundaries of free speech called WP rules.

Please, drop this topic if you can't navigate it within the rules.


I read the OP twice and cant find any attack, let alone an ethnic one.

Maybe you got lost on the way over here?--- viewtopic.php?t=399984



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,707
Location: Australia

07 Mar 2022, 5:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I am observing that people who try and either speak/post links about the actions of Ukrainian soldiers or Ukrainian mafia and/or the Russian perspective in the war are being cancelled as "spreading pro-Russian propaganda"?.



Blanket binary opinions labelling everyone in a particular group as racist is against the WP rulz, mate.
(It is also anti-intellectual).
You seemed to be doing that, recently.
Well, that is how it looked to me. :wink:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,707
Location: Australia

07 Mar 2022, 5:08 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I find myself curiously in the same boat as some right wingers though. Ben Fordham a regular contributor on Sky News has been blasted by the media/public for questioning why a person who tried to speak on Russian perspective in the war was thrown out of an ABC Q&A television program for trying speak his mind?
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/t ... c99907e0b9

Fordham correctly pointed out the man has only commented “Believe it or not, there are a lot of Russians here and around the world that support what Putin is doing in the (sic) Ukraine – myself included,” the questioner said.

Speaking on his 2GB talk back program on Friday morning, Fordham suggested the host (Stan Grant) was pressured by producers of the ABC program to remove the man.

“Someone got in Stan’s ear, because it took him 20 minutes and then he decided Sasha had to go,” Fordham said.

“It sounded to me like Stan Grant lost control of his own show.”

Fordham questioned the decision to remove the man at all, saying the whole idea of the program was to have “robust debate”

“Obviously, we don’t support what Russia’s doing, but I don’t think this guy … was advocating violence,” Fordham said.

“He’s a Russian living in Australia and he’s standing up for his own country.”

Maybe I was wrong after all. Cancel culture does exist.


I didn't agree with the kid being kicked out, either.
I am anti-censorship/anti-cancel-culture also. :wink:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,166
Location: Long Island, New York

07 Mar 2022, 7:23 pm

One has to know ones enemy in order to defeat said enemy, a truth rapidly being lost.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


The_Znof
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,068
Location: Vancouver Canada

07 Mar 2022, 8:38 pm

its not lost, its being increasingly criminalised.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,731

08 Mar 2022, 12:43 am

magz wrote:
Oh yes, cancel culture exists.
Right now in Russia, you can get up to 15 years in prison for talking about this war in a way not approved by Kremlin. That includes even calling it a war.
They shut down f-book, twitter, youtube and they are working on disconnecting from global internet.

You got a reprimend (not from me) because attacks on ethnicities are forbidden on WP. This is one of the boundaries of free speech called WP rules.

Please, drop this topic if you can't navigate it within the rules.


Please show me where I am attacking an ethnicity? I am posing a question about the boundaries of free speech.

I suggest you re-read my post.



The_Znof
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,068
Location: Vancouver Canada

08 Mar 2022, 1:10 am

that question about free speech did not get very far now did it?

also dont shoot the messanger quite yet - maybe magz just does what its told.?


Image

It was a good OP on its own cyberdad,

but now its gone all twilight zone, cool lol. 8)

Like Dr Phil but less abusive and more entertaining. :jester:



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,864
Location: Poland

08 Mar 2022, 1:18 am

I am refering to your recently removed posts, not to this thread, as the OP seems quite personal on your side.
I will not publicly discuss removed content, so PM if you didn't get it - but I know you did receive an explanation.

The boundaries of free speech here are WP rules.
The general boundaries of free speech are often security and avoiding harm.
Right now, people are dying, civilians are shelled and apologetics or denial of it cost more lives. Calling for more harm on a group are generally outside of the boundaries of free speech in what we consider civilised discussion.

Removal from a show vs 15 years in jail is the difference between a country with respect to free speech and without it.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,731

08 Mar 2022, 1:28 am

magz wrote:
I am refering to your recently removed posts, not to this thread, as the OP seems quite personal on your side.
I will not publicly discuss removed content, so PM if you didn't get it - but I know you did receive an explanation.

The boundaries of free speech here are WP rules.
The general boundaries of free speech are often security and avoiding harm.
Right now, people are dying, civilians are shelled and apologetics or denial of it cost more lives. Calling for more harm on a group are generally outside of the boundaries of free speech in what we consider civilised discussion.

Removal from a show vs 15 years in jail is the difference between a country with respect to free speech and without it.


That's fine, if its in relation to the content that was removed then I fully understand and abide by choosing to not directly comment on matters pertaining to the Ukraine conflict (which I also mentioned in my post).

The boundaries of free speech is (ironically) actually about civilised discussion.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,864
Location: Poland

08 Mar 2022, 1:44 am

Thanks, I'm glad we clarified it.

Yes, boundaries of free speech are about what we consider civilized discussion.
The problem with showing Russian side of the conflict is, what Russians see in their TV is completely detached from reality - exactly because they don't have free speech in our most basic form of not being arrested for saying something.
Numerous captured Russian soldiers claim they were expecting local people to welcome them with flowers for freeing them from an evil government. Russian soldiers were shocked to learn the reality.

Is there any contribution to the truth in letting the lies that cost both Ukrainian civilians and Ukrainian and Russian soldiers lives gain more publicity? I'm not surprised by refusals of publishing them further.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,731

08 Mar 2022, 1:54 am

Most of us living outside of the region of Russia and Ukraine don't really know what's happening on the ground except through news or through first hand experience being posted on social media.

This seems to be the fatal flaw in a lot of people developing opinions which rely on 2nd hand information that may be going through a filter (as you say).

I don't feel the intel coming through makes me confident to comment on matters like a conflict involving innocent civilians dying (something I am against). The stakes are too high.

But as history is written up then the sources need to be more thoroughly scrutinised and the players involved need to be held accountable if they were involved in crimes.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,707
Location: Australia

08 Mar 2022, 4:12 am

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
Oh yes, cancel culture exists.
Right now in Russia, you can get up to 15 years in prison for talking about this war in a way not approved by Kremlin. That includes even calling it a war.
They shut down f-book, twitter, youtube and they are working on disconnecting from global internet.

You got a reprimend (not from me) because attacks on ethnicities are forbidden on WP. This is one of the boundaries of free speech called WP rules.

Please, drop this topic if you can't navigate it within the rules.


Please show me where I am attacking an ethnicity? I am posing a question about the boundaries of free speech.

I suggest you re-read my post.


That post was in another thread and has been deleted, I believe.
So, we can't re-read it. ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,864
Location: Poland

08 Mar 2022, 4:24 am

Pepe wrote:
That post was in another thread and has been deleted, I believe.
So, we can't re-read it. ;)
Yes, Pepe, we have clarified this with Cyberdad. It's okay now.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>