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carlos55
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11 Mar 2022, 8:56 am

What was initially thought crazy conspiracy theory or Russian propaganda seems to have an element of truth in it.

The Russians are saying they found a US bio weapons lab in Ukraine during their invasion.

The US Victoria Nulland has sort of confirmed this but given a poor explanation with many holes in it.

The Chinese are now getting officially involved in the story as it appears the lab were working on corona type viruses as well

It’s all very mysterious

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AugzqXPYaOc

China spokesman

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=irQnlLo9l1U


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CarlM
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11 Mar 2022, 9:22 am

If it has Tucker Carlson concerned there could be a real story here :roll:.


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ironpony
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11 Mar 2022, 9:25 am

Well according this Tucker Carlson episode the secretary of state Lori Nuland, testified under oath, that there are biological concerns in biolabs in the Ukraine that they are worried about getting their hands on. She says so at 3:45 into this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AugzqXPYaOc&t=320s

So I guess you have it from the US government themselves, that there are biolabs in the Ukraine, and the US is worried about Russia getting their hands on certain materials inside them. Now I know fox news has a reputation for being propoganda, but I don't think they could have faked Lori Nuland's testimony.



txfz1
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11 Mar 2022, 9:51 am

Glenn Greenwald's take

Nuland video


Where is Dr Fauci? He has been out of the news cycle for quite some time now.



The_Walrus
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11 Mar 2022, 10:06 am

It would be very strange if there were no microbiology labs in Ukraine! However, there is a considerable difference between microbial research and biological weapon manufacturing.

It is uncontroversial that there are microbial research labs in Ukraine: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ex ... 022-03-11/

However, there is no evidence that Ukraine is manufacturing biological weapons. Russia has made some blatantly false claims on this subject, like accusing Ukraine of having stockpiles of plague and botulism agents despite the documents they produced in "support" of their claims not including the relevant agents!



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11 Mar 2022, 10:14 am

We have the Pine Bluff arsenal here.
For a short time it had bioweapons and all sorts of nasty stuff.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Bluff_Arsenal


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carlos55
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11 Mar 2022, 11:21 am

The_Walrus wrote:
It would be very strange if there were no microbiology labs in Ukraine! However, there is a considerable difference between microbial research and biological weapon manufacturing.

It is uncontroversial that there are microbial research labs in Ukraine: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ex ... 022-03-11/

However, there is no evidence that Ukraine is manufacturing biological weapons. Russia has made some blatantly false claims on this subject, like accusing Ukraine of having stockpiles of plague and botulism agents despite the documents they produced in "support" of their claims not including the relevant agents!


I dont doubt there are labs in Ukraine connected to hospitals or universities its just that the explanation given doesnt really make much sense unless its possibly to cover up something else, which is why many are questionning it

Like if they are saying as i believe they are the pentagon was decommissioning bio labs set up during the Soviet era, that raises the question:

Since Ukraine went independent in 1991 over 30 years has passed, the Ukraine gave up its nukes about 28 years ago too, we are to believe these dangerous stockpiles have been sitting on a shelf all this time and nobody bothered mentioning it until now.

Its just the US has a history of offshoring things that are illegal in the US like their sponsoring of activity at the Wuhan research lab that was named in connection to COVID 19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2cwGscanAg


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lostonearth35
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11 Mar 2022, 11:36 am

Deliberately infecting people with a deadly disease is the second worst thing the human race can do. Nuking is first. And guess which country actually nuked and horribly killed and poisoned many innocent people at the end of WW2?

For millions of years I didn't exist. I felt no pain or suffering and didn't know or care less about what the world was like. The only thing that has caused me pain and misery is existing. So why am I too cowardly to end it and go back to feeling nothing like I did before I was born??



The_Walrus
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11 Mar 2022, 11:37 am

The research being carried out 1) doesn't involve stockpiles of biological weapons, 2) wouldn't be illegal in the United States, 3) as far as I can tell, is not a Soviet holdover.



cyberdad
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11 Mar 2022, 4:55 pm

It would seem China is waging a reasonably successful propaganda war against the US

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58273322

It would perhaps be naive to think that none of the superpowers haven't been trying to weaponise viral research. Ever since Saddam Hussein the spectre of a viral weapon is real. The problem with releasing it has always been the backwash will eventually put your own population at risk. Not unlike nuclear radiation fallout.



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11 Mar 2022, 5:08 pm

CarlM wrote:
If it has Tucker Carlson concerned there could be a real story here :roll:.


First time actually watching Tucker here, sounds like he should do commercials for a used car lot.

txfz1's link is a nice alternative. https://greenwald.substack.com/p/victor ... ogical?s=r



The_Znof
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11 Mar 2022, 5:25 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well according this Tucker Carlson episode the secretary of state Lori Nuland, testified under oath, that there are biological concerns in biolabs in the Ukraine that they are worried about getting their hands on. She says so at 3:45 into this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AugzqXPYaOc&t=320s

So I guess you have it from the US government themselves, that there are biolabs in the Ukraine, and the US is worried about Russia getting their hands on certain materials inside them. Now I know fox news has a reputation for being propoganda, but I don't think they could have faked Lori Nuland's testimony.


Here is some text from Greenwald.

Quote:
Any attempt to claim that Ukraine's biological facilities are just benign and standard medical labs is negated by Nuland's explicitly grave concern that “Russian forces may be seeking to gain control of” those facilities and that the U.S. Government therefore is, right this minute, “working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces.” Russia has its own advanced medical labs. After all, it was one of the first countries to develop a COVID vaccine, one which Lancet, on February 1, 2021, pronounced was “ safe and effective” (even though U.S. officials pressured multiple countries, including Brazil, not to accept any Russian vaccine, while U.S. allies such as Australia refused for a full year to recognize the Russian COVID vaccine for purposes of its vaccine mandate). The only reason to be “quite concerned” about these "biological research facilities” falling into Russian hands is if they contain sophisticated materials that Russian scientists have not yet developed on their own and which could be used for nefarious purposes — i.e., either advanced biological weapons or dual-use “research” that has the potential to be weaponized.


https://greenwald.substack.com/p/victor ... ogical?s=r



ironpony
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12 Mar 2022, 3:26 am

Oh okay I see. Well as for the OP saying it could be corana virus in these labs, would it logical to turn corona virus into a weapon since it's not that effective and many people survive it?



QuantumChemist
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12 Mar 2022, 12:01 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay I see. Well as for the OP saying it could be corana virus in these labs, would it logical to turn corona virus into a weapon since it's not that effective and many people survive it?


If you turned it into a bioweapon, you would have to genetically mutate it into a more virulent form that is not blocked by current immunities. It would hurt those affected without care what side that they are on. Making the mutated virus go after select targets is hard to do (not impossible though) and can easily be traceable back to the facility. Chemical weapons are much easier to control, but have limited range. Neither are good to have in play on a battlefield.

It will give you nightmares with some of the possibilities when both are combined in one weapon discharge. I can see how it can be made in a lab setting with the right materials and equipment. It is among the forbidden knowledge that is best left alone by the hands of warring men.



ironpony
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12 Mar 2022, 1:57 pm

But if the best a government do is invent a weapon that is no more dangerous than a cold/flu, can they really get more advanced therefore?

For example, I watched the movie Outbreak (1995) recently and in that, a biological weapon is accidentally unleashed. The government manages to contain it to a small town, but in the movie, the military projects that if it gets loose, it will kill everyone on the US mainland in just a few days.

Could a biological weapon like this be invented or do they have a really long skeptical way to go if the best they can produce is a more common flu at the moment?



magz
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12 Mar 2022, 2:06 pm

The grain of truth in all this is: there are microbiology labs in Ukraine and their contents should be professionally destroyed now, while the researchers still have some control over them.
It has nothing to do with bioweapons. It's just dangerous materials that need careful cointainment, which may not be possible during the war.


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