Why did NATO choose to rely on Russian gas and oil?

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ironpony
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12 Mar 2022, 2:05 pm

So it seems me that NATO is in a pickle since they chose to sanction against all Russian gas and oil. And now since there are rumors that China might want to invade Taiwan now, NATO might have to sanction against China's trade as well if that happens.

But I thought NATO was formed as an alliance against countries that might have interests against you such as countries who were more communist before like the USSR.

But now since NATO relies so much on gas and oil, they haven't really formed an alliance against such countries, but instead, they have all combined to create one big scrotum that Russia and perhaps even China, now has it's fist closed over.

So why did NATO choose to rely so much on their opponents gas and oil and thus choosing to make themselves a big scrotum to squeezed so to speak? I just don't understand the logic there.



magz
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12 Mar 2022, 2:09 pm

NATO is only a military defence alliance.
They do not coordinate economical decisions.

Various NATO members make various decisions on Russian oil, depending on their own situations and cost/benefit assessments.


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ironpony
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12 Mar 2022, 2:12 pm

Oh okay, but NATO still made the economic decision to stop gas and oil trade. Isn't that an economic decision?



magz
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12 Mar 2022, 2:14 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but NATO still made the economic decision to stop gas and oil trade.

Did it?
I never heard of this.
A link, maybe?


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funeralxempire
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12 Mar 2022, 2:22 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but NATO still made the economic decision to stop gas and oil trade. Isn't that an economic decision?


Did NATO directly make that decision, or was there just coordination between NATO member states that lead to that outcome?

I know it doesn't sound like a huge difference, but it is in terms of how those states actually conduct their affairs.


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ironpony
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12 Mar 2022, 2:22 pm

Well it seems all the NATO countries are no longer buying Russian oil and gas as the oil and gas prices are now going up in those countries, which means they stopped the trade, unless I missed something? I think it would have had to have been an NATO made decision, otherwise it's too big of a coincidence that all the NATO countries decided to do it at exactly the same time, and it wasn't a NATO decision? Too big of a coincidence to say it wasn't them?



magz
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12 Mar 2022, 2:25 pm

NATO are mainly US, Canada, UK and some EU members. And Turkey.
That's not too many entities to make similar decisions in a crisis situation.


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funeralxempire
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12 Mar 2022, 2:32 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well it seems all the NATO countries are no longer buying Russian oil and gas as the oil and gas prices are now going up in those countries, which means they stopped the trade, unless I missed something? I think it would have had to have been an NATO made decision, otherwise it's too big of a coincidence that all the NATO countries decided to do it at exactly the same time, and it wasn't a NATO decision? Too big of a coincidence to say it wasn't them?


Like magz points out, it's all countries that are fairly friendly who have many diplomatic channels. NATO doesn't dictate how member states must act but it can make recommendations and then those member states can work on how to achieve that result.

That's what I'm trying to emphasis, that NATO doesn't really override any member state's sovereignty, otherwise Canada and many others would have been kicked out for not spending enough or been actually forced to spend more (for example).

And you'd hear if Canada felt our sovereignty was being violated by NATO because Canadian media would make a big deal about it.


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magz
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12 Mar 2022, 2:40 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Like magz points out, it's all countries that are fairly friendly who have many diplomatic channels.
Also, the decisions are not secret, so members influence each other's choices.


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ironpony
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12 Mar 2022, 2:42 pm

But is the influence over others choices so great that this many countries could coincidentally make the same decision without some sort of military pressure?



magz
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12 Mar 2022, 2:44 pm

ironpony wrote:
But is the influence over others choices so great that this many countries could coincidentally make the same decision without some sort of military pressure?
Yes.
The world is full of possible non-military kinds of pressure.

Also, Europe, especially Eastern, is experiencing military pressure - from Russia. Possibility that the conflict spreads is serious and we very much don't want it. Cutting Russia from ability to finance further war is one of ways to lower the risk.


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funeralxempire
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12 Mar 2022, 3:34 pm

ironpony wrote:
But is the influence over others choices so great that this many countries could coincidentally make the same decision without some sort of military pressure?


I'd suggest it's a lot more akin to peer pressure.

Hey NATO fam, we're all shunning Russia because he's a toxic bully because <insert countless examples here> and more specifically because he's been fighting with Ukraine over Ukraine not even wanting to be friends anymore. What a loser, I mean, who even acts like that anymore?!

Switzerland isn't part of NATO but joined in. Switzerland practically never takes sides in international matters but chose to in this instance. Do you think NATO forced them, or that they felt their values (and the values they share with neighbours) obliged them?


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Pepe
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12 Mar 2022, 4:59 pm

Why did NATO choose to rely on Russian gas and oil?

Because they were morons, especially the turtle. 8)



Pepe
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12 Mar 2022, 5:11 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but NATO still made the economic decision to stop gas and oil trade. Isn't that an economic decision?


Perhaps it would be better to say most NATO member nations in Europe have put themselves in a position of dependence on Russian fossil fuels.



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12 Mar 2022, 5:46 pm

I don’t know about other nations…..but I know people in the UK with electric cars—and I believe there’s some sort of requirement that cars go all electric by 2035.



HighLlama
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12 Mar 2022, 6:01 pm

The better question is why do we rely on gas and oil when we know it's harmful.