How many write 'number fours' resembling 'number '9s?'

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JustFoundHere
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02 Apr 2022, 4:54 pm

In addition to confusion between '0s' and 'Os' - Other numbers/letters ripe for confusion are:

* 1 and I.
* 2 and z,Z.
* 5 and s,S.
* 8 and B.
* 9 and g.

Other examples:

* Depending on how number 'six' is written, six can be confused with 'b.'
* Number 'nine' can be confused as 'q.'
* Multiplication symbol is best written as '*' in order to avoid confusion with 'x,X.'



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02 Apr 2022, 9:37 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
The number '0' and letter 'O' are ripe for confusion.

Zeros '0s' are best written with either a horizontal line, or a diagonal line through the number.
It's very complicated when you have to enter a code online for something(like to verify your phone number or email address to log in) & the code you have to input includes letters & numbers & one is the letter O or the number Zero. Either one should ONLY be used when the code is ALL letters or ALL numbers. Technology is very overly complicated & frustrating :x


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02 Apr 2022, 9:51 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
To avoid confusing 'number fours' with 'number 9s', it's best to write 'number fours' like an upside-down lower-case 'h.'

How many quickly got out of the habit of writing 'number fours' as 'number 4s?'


I do it.



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02 Apr 2022, 9:58 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
The number '0' and letter 'O' are ripe for confusion.

Zeros '0s' are best written with either a horizontal line, or a diagonal line through the number.

When speaking numbers, it's best to call '0' as zero - instead of calling zero as the letter 'O.'


I correct people who say "O" when they spell out my email details, just to be sure to be sure.
And I use "Zero" (Not Zed), not "O", even though I am not an Ammuuurian.



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03 Apr 2022, 8:33 am

JustFoundHere wrote:
In addition to confusion between '0s' and 'Os' - Other numbers/letters ripe for confusion are:

* 1 and I.
* 2 and z,Z.
* 5 and s,S.
* 8 and B.
* 9 and g.

Other examples:

* Depending on how number 'six' is written, six can be confused with 'b.'
* Number 'nine' can be confused as 'q.'
* Multiplication symbol is best written as '*' in order to avoid confusion with 'x,X.'


I used to live in Flat 1B, in a street that had almost the same name as two others in that town. There were 6 other homes that were more likely to get my mail than I was.

-I write the number 1 with three strokes now. Have a vague recollection of a single-stroke 1 causing trouble at the bank the year I first left home.


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03 Apr 2022, 1:56 pm

When i was a small boy in school I would often spontaneously reverse b and d or p and q. Even thought you wouldn't thin the mistake possible to make I haven sometimes visually recognized the "P" on the keyboard as a "d" or "b" and made the mistake of typing it. Studying the neurology of "writing", or the physical process of "written language" is incredibly complicated because involves so many things. Eyes, language processing in the brain, ears, mussels of the hand and arm, parts of the brain which coordinate things like the executive function or the cerebellum. It is a very hard thing to study as "hard science".

When I was a boy I had a Curious George book about the alphabet, one picture in the book was of the word "bed" - almost as big as half a page, and with extra lines added to make it into a bed, with the "b" as the headboard, and the "d" as the footboard, and a pillow and blanket, with the blanket turned down to show the sheet. The round parts of the "b" and the "d" the lowercase "e" made the mattress. I would often quickly write the word "bed" on the side of the paper when I was working on a writing assignment or a test and refer to it if I needed to decode or write down a word with a "b" or a "d" in it - it helped me to avoid mistakes. My daughter also reversed letters, and I taught it to her as well. I drew up another picture to go with it it was a "pink quilt" and the space between the bottom of the "p" and "q" contained a quilt. If you reversed the "p" or the "q" there wasn't quite enough room for the quilt. For my younger son I changed it to a "patterned quilt". His quilt was red and blue checker board with lions on the blue squares. My daughter also reversed "2" and "5" and sometimes "3". I drew a picture of the TV character Elmo Monster behind the number "123" and a "Sesame Street Sign above the number. 123 Sesame Street is the address where Susan and Gordon live on the TV show Sesame Street. Ernie and Bert live in the same building in the basement apartment. The "ping pong ball" eyes or Elmo fitted into the top loop of the "2" and the "3" and the bug ball-like nose into the space between the bottom parts of the "23". It you reversed either one of them there wouldn't be room for Elmo's Nose. Scientifically this is called "chunking" and triggers "associative memory" which it the part of the brain that remembers things associated with other things. The "extra" information of the pictures added to the digits makes the disembodied numerals or letter shapes part of a whole and helps to "hold them in place" and keep them from "flipping around". The orientation of the letter (or digit) shape becomes an important part of keeping the integrity of the image.
It is kind of analogous of how the "extra" pieces of wood in the bottom of a chair help to hold the legs of the chair in the right position. In computer communication "checksums" are used as "extra information" to help detect errors in communication. Paper money also uses "extra information" to identify the denomination of a bill - which makes bills easier to identify and avoids counterfeiting.

For giving a number or email address or password over the phone (etc) I sometimes use the international NATO phonetic alphabet, which is also used by pilots in the FAA.

The RAF uses "Able Baker Charlie" in various ways:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_mi ... _alphabets

And there are other "Telephone Alphabets" also called "Radio Alphabets" or "Spelling Alphabets":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_ ... erminology

Fonts like "OCRA" can be used for computer applications:
https://www.morovia.com/fonts/ocr/


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03 Apr 2022, 5:14 pm

Turning calculator numbers upside-down - remember calculators? Here are examples:

0-O, 1-I, 2-Z, 3-E, 4-h, 5-s, 6-g, 7-L, 8-B. Numbers 0,1,2,5,8 can resemble letters as-is.

Turning numbers....sideways. Examples: 2-N, 3-M and W

Turning numbers vertically: 3-E, 6-a, 7 upside-down turned vertically can be a 'J' , and 'nine' (depending on how 'nine' is written/printed) can be a 'p.'

'x' and '+' turned sideways are '+' and 'x' respectively.

Examples tried, and rejected: 7 having similarities to a 't' and, 'four' written as an upside-down 'h' being interpreted as 'y' - a four resembling a 'y' may be some sort of novel font style(s). Some examples of '6' and '9' seemed to invite further examples - yet again were rejected.

Any other interesting examples of "font-play?"



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03 Apr 2022, 6:34 pm

The four with the closed top is the original version. Or thats my assumption.

When folks would write it -the confusion with nine started. So thats when the option to write it with the open top came into usage (the upside down h if you wanna call it that- except your h has that little panhandle on it) to avoid that confusion.

Typefaces, or "fonts", come in all kinds of looks. So there are fonts with the open style four. But usually in print and in screen text its the closed top version that you see. But I am rather sure that most folks write it with the open top.

And there are other confusions. Seven for one, and one for seven, in handwriting. So some folks put that bar through the seven. And zero and O, and so on. One gentlemen customer in a store laughed at how I wrote the letter D. I would make pronounced semi circle first- and then close it with the straight line down the left side. I just do it because I hate it when my Ds look like lopsided O's. So I make em look like half moons.



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03 Apr 2022, 7:22 pm

Fenn wrote:
When i was a small boy in school I would often spontaneously reverse b and d or p and q. Even thought you wouldn't thin the mistake possible to make I haven sometimes visually recognized the "P" on the keyboard as a "d" or "b" and made the mistake of typing it.
That is fairly common with dyslexia. I'm NOT saying you are dyslexic based on that but if you have other issues with reading, writing, & spelling, it might be a possibility.


JustFoundHere wrote:
Turning calculator numbers upside-down - remember calculators? Here are examples:

0-O, 1-I, 2-Z, 3-E, 4-h, 5-s, 6-g, 7-L, 8-B. Numbers 0,1,2,5,8 can resemble letters as-is.

Turning numbers....sideways. Examples: 2-N, 3-M and W

Turning numbers vertically: 3-E, 6-a, 7 upside-down turned vertically can be a 'J' , and 'nine' (depending on how 'nine' is written/printed) can be a 'p.'

'x' and '+' turned sideways are '+' and 'x' respectively.

Examples tried, and rejected: 7 having similarities to a 't' and, 'four' written as an upside-down 'h' being interpreted as 'y' - a four resembling a 'y' may be some sort of novel font style(s). Some examples of '6' and '9' seemed to invite further examples - yet again were rejected.

Any other interesting examples of "font-play?"
I did stuff like that occasionally with my graphing calculator when I was in high-school when I wasn't playing games on it. I still have that same calculator next to me rite now for doing budgeting or comparing stats in old-school RPG games. I really should buy a new one cuz I think it's on the verge of cr@pping out but I'm not sure which one to get.


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03 Apr 2022, 8:43 pm

I've been told that I write (or more commonly mentioned 'print') my letters, numbers, symbols like an architect.

My handwriting is terrible - that is I only apply handwriting when signing my name. I've been told my handwriting sometimes resembles the signatures in which some authors apply at their book-signing events.

As a kid, I would often alternate the terms 'architect' and 'designer.' I treat this as an art-form (see my WP image titled 'Sign-Road' as one of many examples) in applying fonts in the art genre of 'Experimental Minimalism.'

My father's occupational roles involved technical support roles (who wrote number 'fours' resembling number 9s), it was not uncommon for my dad to write text with alternating upper-case and lower-case letters - often on graph paper. Is this a condition similar to dysgraphia?

My mother can write text in both handwriting, and print on blank paper - that is paper without the aid of blue lines on notebook or graph paper, and in straight lines of text parallel to the paper.

Personally, I'm unable to write straight lines of printed text on blank-paper - without the aid of a ruler, and subtle measurement marks on the paper as a guide of sorts. Often, I run-out of space to write those last few letters to complete the written task.

I've always felt that my styles are that rather novel "blend of sorts" from both sides of my family.



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03 Apr 2022, 9:12 pm


At 5:00 :lol: it gives me ideas...


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04 Apr 2022, 2:26 pm

Other "number to letter" conversions - Flipping: 7 to r, 9 to e, and six displayed with straight line becomes d.



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04 Apr 2022, 8:00 pm

Image

I write the number four the way shown in B. Personally I've never had an issue with distinguishing fours from nines. Even when they are written like example C. I do sometimes get numbers mixed up, but for me it's about reading the sequence incorrectly (Five - Nine - Two becomes Two - Five - Nine for instance) or misinterpreting how much value there is in a number (which can be a tad embarrassing when someone is telling you statistics and you've no idea which number they listed was larger so you're not sure what your reaction should be to this information). I have issues where I'll unintentionally line skip as well and information can get muddled. The time and date in the corner might switch with the word count on a Word document. A good way of countering this is temporarily hiding any information below the line I'm reading.

For some reason, when recalling a number I tend to incorrectly remember 9's as 6's and vice versa. I also tend not to recognise a number when it's said differently.

When I was a teenager, I had a habit of saying B when I meant P and vice versa. Not in writing but in verbal speech. I no longer have this issue.


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04 Apr 2022, 8:35 pm

I have an old Lego RCX robot computer brain (smart brick) which has 7 segment displays (like old calculators).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-segment_display

There is no way to make it blink a light or display a letter, but you can set it to display the motor output level (as a number between 0 and 9) on the 7 segment display. As a demo I made a "hELLO" robot. It displays the digits 4-3-7-7-0 with each digit being displayed for one second and a 2/10 second pause between them (when it displays "1" as a kind of "space" character. It is not all that spectacular, but it is a good test when and doesn't need any other components attached.

:)

Now don't get me started on spelling and the evil "Schwa"!


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04 Apr 2022, 11:12 pm

The rules on when to write-out numbers, or spell-out numbers (LINK) seems fitting for this discussion thread:
LINK: https://www.grammarbook.com/numbers/numbers.asp



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04 Apr 2022, 11:22 pm

I write 4 as 4, and 9 as 9.

It's never caused any confusion.