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magz
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24 Apr 2022, 2:33 am

luckystrike.es wrote:
Marginalized groups suffer from "minority stress." Stigmatization has real psychological effects on the stigmatized and a good deal of research has been done in that area. For perspective: Being a person of color, or gay doesn't cause stress. External factors like how people treat you do.
To an extent, it relates to autism, too.


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24 Apr 2022, 3:31 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh ok, but a lot of people who have it seem distressed from it, so if it causes distress, does that it mean it still doesn't need treatment?


*Society* is the malady.
*Society* needs the treatment. 8)


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24 Apr 2022, 1:13 pm

Oh I see if you're I thought the gender dysphoria thing was an internal battle just as much as an external battle with other people.



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24 Apr 2022, 1:24 pm

Pepe wrote:
*Society* is the malady.
*Society* needs the treatment.

Society, like Soylent Green, is people.


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24 Apr 2022, 4:13 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh I see if you're I thought the gender dysphoria thing was an internal battle just as much as an external battle with other people.

You could kind of think of it like this: If being trans were viewed the same as being heterosexual, there would be no "inner battle" about gender identity.

The founder of conversion therapy/ABA Lovaas made a note in his original published paper in 1974 saying that even though society could afford to be more accepting of differences, it would be easier to change the individual rather then change society. He was wrong. The subject of that study committed suicide in 2012 at the age of 38. His family blamed Lovaas and the trauma of the treatments intended to make the guy heterosexual. Society's view of homosexuality changed enough since 1974 that had this person been supported instead of stigmatized he might have been able to enjoy some of those changes.


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24 Apr 2022, 5:44 pm



Studies mentioned within the video regarding the cause of gender dysphoria (1:37:55):

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 135655.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7415463/

For all sources, please refer to the video description which can be accessed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a0zot4qk0I


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Last edited by Lost_dragon on 24 Apr 2022, 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Apr 2022, 5:59 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:

This one arguing the symptoms of the condition are due to changes in network activity, rather than incorrect brain sex was retracted


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24 Apr 2022, 6:26 pm

luckystrike.es wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh I see if you're I thought the gender dysphoria thing was an internal battle just as much as an external battle with other people.

You could kind of think of it like this: If being trans were viewed the same as being heterosexual, there would be no "inner battle" about gender identity.

The founder of conversion therapy/ABA Lovaas made a note in his original published paper in 1974 saying that even though society could afford to be more accepting of differences, it would be easier to change the individual rather then change society. He was wrong. The subject of that study committed suicide in 2012 at the age of 38. His family blamed Lovaas and the trauma of the treatments intended to make the guy heterosexual. Society's view of homosexuality changed enough since 1974 that had this person been supported instead of stigmatized he might have been able to enjoy some of those changes.

'
Oh okay, but when some trans people want to make themselves look like the opposite gender with hormone and surgical are they doing this because it's what they want, or what society wants of them? If society accepted them than would they not get hormone or surgical treatments then for example?



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24 Apr 2022, 7:36 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh I see if you're I thought the gender dysphoria thing was an internal battle just as much as an external battle with other people.


Why would there be an internal battle if there were no social expectations? :scratch:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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24 Apr 2022, 7:38 pm

luckystrike.es wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh I see if you're I thought the gender dysphoria thing was an internal battle just as much as an external battle with other people.

You could kind of think of it like this: If being trans were viewed the same as being heterosexual, there would be no "inner battle" about gender identity.


Precisely. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


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24 Apr 2022, 7:50 pm

ironpony wrote:
luckystrike.es wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh I see if you're I thought the gender dysphoria thing was an internal battle just as much as an external battle with other people.

You could kind of think of it like this: If being trans were viewed the same as being heterosexual, there would be no "inner battle" about gender identity.

The founder of conversion therapy/ABA Lovaas made a note in his original published paper in 1974 saying that even though society could afford to be more accepting of differences, it would be easier to change the individual rather then change society. He was wrong. The subject of that study committed suicide in 2012 at the age of 38. His family blamed Lovaas and the trauma of the treatments intended to make the guy heterosexual. Society's view of homosexuality changed enough since 1974 that had this person been supported instead of stigmatized he might have been able to enjoy some of those changes.

'
Oh okay, but when some trans people want to make themselves look like the opposite gender with hormone and surgical are they doing this because it's what they want, or what society wants of them? If society accepted them than would they not get hormone or surgical treatments then for example?

good question.
Since we don't currently have a society that fully "accepts them," or renounces gender stereotypes, there's no way to say yes or no.
But I personally think that some of them will no longer choose treatments.
For some individuals are not so much "fit for that other" as they are for "not fit for this one".
If society doesn't make "not fit for this one" cause anxiety, then treatments are unnecessary. Just like many ASDs require acceptance, not treatments.


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24 Apr 2022, 11:07 pm

Oh okay, but what do you mean by "not fit for this one" exactly?



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25 Apr 2022, 12:58 am

Quick question everyone, has everyone here finished any debates on whether people like me exist or have capacity to know ourselves ?



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25 Apr 2022, 1:29 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but what do you mean by "not fit for this one" exactly?

1) An individual does not believe that they identifies with the sex at birth
2) An individual does not like certain interests or habits that most people of their own birth gender prefer
3) An individual's appearance does not resemble that typical of one's birth gender
...that sort of thing that doesn't conform to gender stereotypes

A society that emphasizes gender stereotypes systematically oppresses such individuals, often causing anxiety in such individuals.
Such individuals may identify themselves as cisgender or as transgender/Non-binary.
I personally think that the level of oppression of the stereotype makes the proportions who identify as all three change in a statistical sense.


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25 Apr 2022, 1:48 pm

rowan_nichol wrote:
Quick question everyone, has everyone here finished any debates on whether people like me exist or have capacity to know ourselves ?


I think we moved from debate to some genuine attempts to understand you better some time ago. It's no fun to be put under a microscope, but the better people understand you, the easier it will be for them to accept you.


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25 Apr 2022, 2:33 pm

ironpony wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
I was allowed to transition at 18 without question – but I regretted it
Interesting story.

I read in Tony Attwood's book on Asperger's Syndrome that the sexual orientation and gender abnormalities are heavily over-represented in individuals on the spectrum. Tony Attwood essentially suggested that the challenges with social conformity confuses autistic people into thinking they belong to such a minority. Personally, I agree with that opinion.


What does it mean when Attwood says 'heavily over-represented', exactly?

Confusing for me too whether it means it's represented in numbers as being more preponderant or if it means being over estimated.
This might provide more insight
https://www.google.com/amp/s/reframingautism.org.au/response-to-attwood-on-transition/%3famp=1


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