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AngelRho
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14 Apr 2022, 6:31 pm

The story of the rich man deals with the Hebrew belief that riches were a symbol of God's blessing and approval. Rich people are guaranteed a place in heaven because God has smiled on them while they were yet living. If you aren't blessed on earth, you aren't blessed in heaven.

What Jesus is saying about the rich man is that no one can get into heaven. If it is difficult for rich people to go to heaven, it is impossible for those who have given up everything to follow Jesus to get into heaven. Jesus uses this as a teachable moment to help His disciples to see that they can only get into heaven if the Father makes it so. Jesus is how anyone can enter heaven.



ToughDiamond
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14 Apr 2022, 6:42 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
to Jesus saying that a rich man can't get his ticket to the Good Place

Jesus didn't say can't, he said it is hard to.

Harder than shoving a camel through the eye of a needle, in fact. Which is practically impossible. I suppose it could be a needle with an insanely large eye, but I think that's just making excuses. He had also told him to give up his wealth. Not just a 10% tithe, but the whole shebang. He as good as said it was impossible. And to my mind, quite rightly so. Surely no benevolent deity would have it any other way?



ToughDiamond
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14 Apr 2022, 6:59 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Obviously rich people can gain eternity with God,
Abram, whose name God changed to Abraham as written in Genesis, the founder of what are called the Abrahamic Religions, was not only rich but is described as being very rich, exceedingly wealthy, depending on exact wording.
https://biblehub.com/genesis/13-2.htm

And because Abraham believed God, that faith was credited to him as righteousness,
https://biblehub.com/genesis/15-6.htm


In the New Testament book Acts there are even a few wealthy women who became believers in Christ and assisted the Apostles and the church generally.

Lydia for example, if one is selling luxury textiles it would follow that engaging in that commerce requires some level of wealth,
https://www.learnreligions.com/lydia-in ... le-4150413
"
Accomplishments of Lydia in the Bible

Lydia ran a successful business selling a luxury product: purple cloth. This was a unique achievement for a woman during the male-dominated Roman empire. More importantly, though, she believed in Jesus Christ as Savior, was baptized and had her entire household baptized too. When she took Paul, Silas, Timothy, and Luke into her house, she created one of the first home churches in Europe.

Lydia's Strengths

Lydia was intelligent, perceptive, and assertive to compete in business. Her faithful pursuit of God as a Jew caused the Holy Spirit to make her receptive to Paul's message of the gospel. She was generous and hospitable, opening her home to traveling ministers and missionaries.

Life Lessons From Lydia

Lydia's story shows God works through people by opening their hearts to help them believe the good news. Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ through grace and cannot be earned by human works. As Paul explained who Jesus was and why he had to die for the sin of the world, Lydia showed a humble, trusting spirit. Further, she was baptized and brought salvation to her entire household, an early example of how to win the souls of those closest to us.

Lydia also credited God with her earthly blessings and was quick to share them with Paul and his friends. Her example of stewardship shows we cannot pay God back for our salvation, but we do have an obligation to support the church and its missionary efforts. "

Here is the account of that,
https://biblehub.com/lsv/luke/12.htm
"
11Therefore, sailing from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and the next day came to Neapolis, 12and from there to Philippi, which is the [c]foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days. 13And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there. 14Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us.
"

Yes I accept that there are many tales of rich people getting a ticket to the Good Place, but they contradict the part we've just been talking about. I suppose that's why we've now got the Christian Right and the Christian Left. It's possible to cherry-pick the Bible and "prove" that it's OK to be rich or that it's not OK to be rich. Or maybe it's OK to be rich as long as you'd give it up if Jesus told you to, though as he hasn't, you can keep your money? Surely, though, if it's the right thing to do, the rich man would give it up anyway?

This idea that that no matter how kind you are to people is not the point, that the point is complete and utter submission to a deity, is one that makes no sense to me. Though it's very handy for a priest who can offer to tell us what the deity wants us to do. How do you know you've got the right priest?



aghogday
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15 Apr 2022, 12:15 am



Something About Over 45,000 Different Denominations of Christianity; Anyway, From HiStorical Records, For Example,

Something About the Word 'Is' And 'Bill Clinton'; And How Convoluted Definitions of Just One Word Will Come to PER "IS":

“It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is. If the—if he—if ‘is’ means is and never has been, that is not—that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement. … Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.”

Yeah, With So-Called Christians; And Most Any Other Member of Any Other 'Group Think And Act;'

All Different Interpretations Are Possible, When it Comes to Human Beings; And Even More Than That Now;

Back to The Evidence: Over 45,000 Denominations For Christianity;

And The Most Seasoned Members of Decades, Confiding in

me In Various So-Called Christian Churches, Vastly Different

Interpretations; And Some, Just Admitting They Come Because

Their Spouse Wants them to; And "Don't Believe in Any of This CR8P;"

As They've Lived Long Enough in Life to Determine How Frail Human Rationality is Among 'The Masses'...

Good Example, is This Thread; And The Various Interpretations of Verses in the Bible, Just Among the Few Here....

At the Catholic Church i Regularly Visit, One Priest FROM This Old Good Old Boy Place, Takes it Most All Fundamentalist

And Literal;

While the Younger

Foreign Priest Apparently
From Somewhere 'South of the Border,'

Finds the Kingdom of Heaven Within;

And Asks That Folks Do It Now; Instead of Waiting

After A Dirt Nap; It's True, Some Folks Believe in a 'Real God Now'

Within; That Doesn't Even Need A Name; Other Folks Not So Much...

It's Not Hard to Figure

Out Which Group

Enjoys Life more now;

Typically, Folks Who BeLiEVE iN
A Kingdom of Heaven Within All
For Theirs to Seek and Find IT; Do, Actually

Find it Now More Than Folks Do, Who Only Believe

Heaven Comes Somewhere in a Dirt Nap or Clouds of Ashes As Such...

True though, We Come From Star Dust And Science Suggests That We Return to Star Dust Again;

And if Famous 'New Twitter Sensation Elon Musk' is Correct; Perhaps It's All A Holographic Simulation

And We Return Forever

And Get No Say So or Do;

If So, i Suggest We Make the
Best oF iT Now; As if that is the

Case, Perhaps There is A Kind of Eternal

Hell For Those Who Believe Heaven Never Exists Now Within;

When Now is Truly All that Ever Exists Now; of Course, Depending

On the
Definition of Now too;

Watching People Discuss

Religion Is Like Watching Snow
Flakes Fall And Figuring Out Which
Two Are Configured Identically; Finger Prints in the Snow, Indeed, for the Most Part;

With So Many Folks, So Sure That Their Snow Flake Print is "THE Only One True Snowflake";

In Other Words, Looking At it this Way, Many of Them BeLieVE They are an "Only Child of God"...

With an

Only View

That Really Counts...
Yet We Can and Will Still Do Our
Best to Live A Life Inhaling Peace Exhaling
LoVE iN JoY oF LiGHT Giving, Sharing, Caring,
Healing With Least Harm for All At Least Creating

A God Who Is More like Total Hope, Faith, And Love;

Instead of Some Lesser

God; Yet if 'Your Chalice'

Ain't Over Flowing With
Breaths of Peace and Love

Then It is Indeed, About As Easy

As Fitting A 'Moby Dick' in A 'Twitter Verse'...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1998/09/bill-clinton-and-the-meaning-of-is.html



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