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kraftiekortie
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17 Apr 2022, 6:27 am

Because He hasn’t revealed Himself to me—plain and simple.

No long-winded philosophical discussion will convince me otherwise.

People who do “believe” I have respect for, and I will not try to convince them that it is otherwise.



AngelRho
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17 Apr 2022, 6:36 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Because He hasn’t revealed Himself to me—plain and simple.

No long-winded philosophical discussion will convince me otherwise.

People who do “believe” I have respect for, and I will not try to convince them that it is otherwise.

Sure He has. It's never a matter of whether God reveals Himself to all people, but whether people truly want to believe.



kraftiekortie
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17 Apr 2022, 6:49 am

I don’t want to believe—without empirical evidence.

That’s my theology.

This is coming from someone who wants there to be a Heaven.

My wanting something…doesn’t mean I get what I desire. Or doesn’t induce a belief in God.

There’s no logical argument that will convince me of God’s existence.

God has to directly reveal Himself.

No….He doesn’t “have” to….but He “has” to in order to convince me, a mere man.



aghogday
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17 Apr 2022, 9:09 am



Luke 17:21
King James Version:

21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!

for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Unfortunately, There Is More Than One Ghost Author
of the Old Antiquated Dusty Bible Then, Upon, Among
Millennia Of Efforts, With Innumerable Ghost Authors
Assigned Famous Pen Names Like Mark, Matthew, Luke

And 'Dear John,' Where Numerous Scripts Are Penned Down in Each
So Called Gospel Account Then By Innumerable Ghost Authors indeed

From the Hands of Innumerable Copy Mistakes and Intentional Changes

By Scribes/Editors Through Centuries Upon Centuries of SCReWeD Up Efforts; Not Even

Counting All the Different Language Translations; Originating, in Many Cases Then

From Those Roman Greek Speaking, Writing Authors At Least Four Decades and More

After the Death of So-called Yeshua Then Upon A Cross As So Many Others Were

Sacrificed
As Scape
Goats to
Make Examples
of Their Failings
To Make the Roman
Empire Grade of Rule

As True, the Roman Greek Speaking
And Writing Ghost Authors often Cherry
Picked the Oral Traditions Changed ACross Decades
And Centuries too; Oh, MY GOD What a Round Table Ruse...

And Muse, Both DarK And LiGHT STiLL NoW True As 'They' Chant An "Egregore
MeMe," (Nicene Creed) A MaGiC iNCaNTaTioN At Catholic Church STiLL Now to BRinG

JeSuS BacK to LiFE! God Yes, Even For Real, This Go All The Way Around Again;

Yet Its Also Marketing 101; True, STiLL NoW, If You (We) Are Going to Market
A Product, (We) You Must Find A Willing Target Audience to Buy What You (We)

Are Selling Now and It's True

God Yes! It's Not Always Easy
To Find tHE ALL IN ALL WiTHiN

Naked, Enough, Whole, Complete;

Where We Become Part of tHE ALL in All ThiS

Way Whole Or WTF Ya Wanna Name it With Abstract

Concepts; Yep, Human Co-Created Symbols Then; As All in All Now

Means No One Will Be Able to Subtract or Take Anything Away from You (US);

True, in this Autotelic Flow, One Generates Their Own Happiness Within Yet Again,

That's Not How Ya Master And Subjugate A Target Audience to Buy What Ya Are Selling;

Ya Gotta Have A Hook, And Bait, And Even a Sinker to Draw the Target Audience in Keeping 'em;

AND IF THEY ARE NAKED, ENOUGH, WHOLE, COMPLETE THIS WAY PART OF THE ALL IN ALL WHERE

NONE WILL BE
SUBTRACTED NOW
OR ADDED TO THEM;

FORGET ABOUT TRYING
TO SELL ME SOMETHING
AT The MaLL, i ALREADY HAVE IT ALL;

IT JUST DON'T WORK WITH THE ESSENCE
OF NATURE (GOD) ALL IN ALL NAKED,
ENOUGH, WHOLE, COMPLETE WITHIN, NOW;

(Don't Kid Yourself Though; IT STiLL Helps to be Financially
Independent For Real 'in Rome' STiLL NoW, WHere God is A CoiN)

Now To Be Clear, This is How i Did Luke 17:21,
Samadhi, Kundalini Rising, Prana, The Tao; Yes,
The Autotelic Flow of Naked, Enough, Whole Complete
in Meditating Contemplating Ways of Free Dance And Song For Real; Yes,

There Are As Many Paths to this Metaphor of the Kingdom of God Within;
This Heaven, This Satori, Now As Human Co-Created Metaphors to Describe

What the Essence

Of the Feeling And
Sensing Real Experience
of the Kingdom of Heaven Within IS NoW;

In Other Words, Unlimited Human Created Forms
For the Essence of All ThaT iS, When We Become the All
in All, Naked, Enough, Whole, Complete; Inhaling Peace,
ExhalinG LoVE iN JoY oF LiGHT, Giving, Sharing, Caring, Healing

(OH, BY ThiS WaY, THeRE iS No Dying NoW, Only Peace NoW
And Love Inhaling Exhaling Freely This Way With NO FEARS)

This Way For
All Now With

Least Harm;

Yet Remember, An Outcast

From All Cultures May Be A Most
Unbiased Individual of All When it Comes

to Studying the Meaning of Life At Essence More
Than the Forms that Cultures Create to Bond and Bind
Us to Their Particular Languages For What Makes Life Work Best to The

Cultural Group
Think Crowd

Source;

Whether for
Nefarious
or Benevalent
Reasons Put Forth, Indeed;

So, in the Paths of Evangelical Christianity,
One may AsK NoW, How They Determine God is

Revealed Best to Others; Well, True, it iS A VEry
Tribal Language; Which Means They Must Convince
You That THeir 'Quarterback' of THeir 'NFL Team' is the

Best Ever, Or You May Change Your Preference of Belief
From the New York Jets to the Washington Redskins And Now Generals AS Such...

So What Do they Usually Do; They Cherry Pick Another Verse Version From the
Old King James Minuscule Effort of A Bible, Less than 800,000 Words; Yawn, Mine
is 10.4 MiLLioN Words Long; Yet i Digress And Do My Best Not to Make this into

A Bible Wagging

Contest; Yes, Yes,

13 Times the Size

of that Old Minuscule

Effort and of Course God Yes,
Yes! 130 Times the Size Then of
The Old Quran That Took 23 Years
to Receive in About 2000 Words of
Vocabulary And A "Hare's Breath of 80,000 Words or so;"
A True Twitter Breath of Books For HiSToRiCaL Reference at Least in Total...

i Knock the Size of An Old King James Effort Out of the Park on Batting Average
Every 7 Months Now or So; in 8 Years and 8 Months of TOTAL Effort As of 4.18.2022!

More Specifically, The Math Is 10.4 Million Words Divided By 800,000; Yes, Exactly Lucky 13!

So Anyway, Their Tiny Verse of Effort to Meet Their Target Audiences of Folks Mostly

Living in SCaRCiTieS of Fear; WHere Sadly Addiction to the Adrenaline And Dopamine
of the Emotions of Fear Along With Hate That comes From Separating those Who Feel

Low in Illusions
of Feeling Higher
Than Others Who
Do Not Believe As They do...

As The So-called 'Chosen ones'

(Yep, The Fans of the New York Jets! too)

(Or Whatever Team Tom Brady is Playing
on Next For those Who See Him As Best too)

Comes As A 'Perfect Marketing
Recipe' of Romans 10:9; Yes, Let's
Take A Fair And Balanced Look At That Verse too:

Romans 10:9
King James Version:

9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

It Works Something Like This As i am Surely 'Dating all of my Close to 62 Years of Life' by 6.6.2022
Through this Analogy Now, hehe; "For Thou Shalt Confess With Thy Mouth the Lord Joe Namath is
The Best Quarterback in the NFL For the Religious Team of the New York Jets; And There is No Way

We Are Ever
Gonna

Win

The Bait
of A Super
Bowl Win Without
The Best QuarterBack ever then Joe Namath,
Tom Brady, Jesus, Or Which Ever Super Hero is Named Next...


Yet You See, For Capturing a Target Audience, Subject to the
Addiction to Fear And Hate, Coming From An Environment of
Desert Scarcity That Often Must Fight to the Death For BASiC Tribal Subsistence,

Romans 10:9, is often Strategically Placed By Commercial Ad When One Visits
A Cheap Fast Food Buffet in the Deep South Where i am From Most As After

One Eats the Buffet Meal, Without Always the Best of Sanitary Practices By the
Employees of the Cheap Buffet;

One May Find Themselves

Rushing, Rather Quick
Stepping to the Restroom

And Once You Get There, You
Will Find A Commercial Ad FOR "Good News"

(OH GOD YUCK, ATTACHED to the Toilet
Where it Come to BeLong in the Restroom
THere; Reminds me of 'Gehenna, Indeed' too...)

Until the Fear Comes on the Back of the
Commercial Ad that Says if You Do Not Believe
in the Way We Are Telling You God is Revealed As
A Dead Dude From 2000 Years Ago Come Back As
A Zombie From the Dead, You Go To Hell and Burn Forever EVEN more then...

(God Damned Jalapeno Pepper Recipe at the All You Can Eat Cheap Buffet)

Hmm, Yet You See
The Carrot is, You Are

No Longer Just A Commoner
From a Place of Desert Scarcity
Who Is Never Naked, Enough, Whole,
Complete Generating Your Own Happiness Within;

Now You Have A Crutch to an Addiction of Fear and Hate

And One May Even Elevate That Crutch to 'Q-Anon Non-Sense'

of the Same Addiction to Fear and Hate As Well, Separating Ourselves

Not Only From 'the All in All' Naked, Enough, Whole, Complete Within Yet

Addicted to

Someone
Else's Story;

Buying the Whole
Snake Oil Salesperson
Routine of Hook, Bait, And

Sinker From Heaven to Hell too
As Illusory Stories Make Human Realities ThiS Way too...

Yawn, i Didn't Touch that Nasty Ad in the Fast Food Buffet Stinky Restroom;

i Was Already Sick Enough From the Hook, Bait, And Sinker of the Fast Food Buffet;

('They' Already Gave me one at the Book Store, Telling me i Would Surely Become
Demon Possessed by Reading A Book About Yoga; Particularly, if i practiced Balance)

'Perfect Analogy'

'For that Version'

of Finding God, Indeed

A Fast Food Buffet; Just
A Quick Fix for What's Missing Within...

Again, Mileage Varies Among Different
Makes and Models of Human Vessels and Vehicles of

Existence;

For Some

The Feeling
of Fear and

Hate is Better

Than Just Feeling
Small Insignificant

And Never Naked, Enough,
Whole, Complete With the Kingdom
of Heaven Experiencing ALL iN ALL iN
BaLaNCE Now

Within Free;

"Luke 17:21"

For Every Touch
Down And Homerun
Free Within; Yep, Just for Free
And A Whole Lot of Laser Focus
in Autotelic Flow of Free Dance And
Song for me to Staycation in Heaven Always
Reaching New Heights of Human Potentials Now
NeW in Complexity of Dance And Song Free ThiS Way;

Just Effortless
'Wu Wei' Ease;

Constantly

Dancing A Tight
Rope Higher and Higher
Now For Real AS Heaven
Stays All in All Within ThiS Way,

Staycationing indeed

With
SMiLes...

It May Sound A Bit
Like A Camel Passing
Through the EYe of A Needle
From Afar; Yet Truly Every Holy
Word And Sacred Step is Effortless
Wu Wei Ease As the Butcher's Blade

No Longer
Dulls Now

And the
Soles of my
Athletic Nike
Shox Shoes Now

Last Close to a Year
as Opposed to Only
3 Years in Heaven Practice Before;

(my Soul Grows LiGHTeR Younger And THere is
Some Evidence That Science Shows
Autotelic Flow In Meditation And
Contemplating Existence in Balance

This Way Actually Re-Generates the Gray
Matter in Our Brains And Folks Often Give
me a 2 Decade Mulligan on my Numerical Age)

The Law of Nature Number 1, Is Balance;
if Planets and Stars Are Not FRiEnDS With

Gravity

They 'Lucifer
Fall' Instead of

Staying Above Now WiTH SMiLes...

Happy Easter, The Birth of Every Inhale
of Peace Exhale of Love Now As The Rest of
the Never Ending Story Continues Now in Nether Land Real
in A Place of No Moon or Stars Generated By the 'Revenge of the
Nerds'

Online

And Don't
Forget the
Richest Dude
in the World Has
Asperger's Syndrome;

Only Difference Between
me and Him is His Riches Are Based on NuMBeRS...

My Riches Are Based on Luke 17:21; Naked, Enough,

Whole,

Complete;

Part of the
All in All, Nothing

to Subtract or Add to me Now...

Yet of Course, i Will Continue to
Fulfill Greater Human Potentials Now
Per "John 14:12" as Real Now True too; For i DO Believe

As the Oracle From the Matrix Danced And Sung And i Damn
Sure Am Able to Architect Some NumBeRS STiLL NoW True, Hehe...

Key, Play Slays
Fear, If You take
This Life Business
Too Serious, Be Prepared
to Fall Out Of Balance As Well Away From Play...

Love Makes All That IS Worth IT; Still Bottom Line to me, With SMiLes..:)



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Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


AngelRho
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User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,961
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

17 Apr 2022, 12:44 pm

aghogday wrote:


Luke 17:21
King James Version:

21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!

for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Unfortunately, There Is More Than One Ghost Author
of the Old Antiquated Dusty Bible Then, Upon, Among
Millennia Of Efforts, With Innumerable Ghost Authors
Assigned Famous Pen Names Like Mark, Matthew, Luke

And 'Dear John,' Where Numerous Scripts Are Penned Down in Each
So Called Gospel Account Then By Innumerable Ghost Authors indeed

From the Hands of Innumerable Copy Mistakes and Intentional Changes

By Scribes/Editors Through Centuries Upon Centuries of SCReWeD Up Efforts; Not Even

Counting All the Different Language Translations; Originating, in Many Cases Then

From Those Roman Greek Speaking, Writing Authors At Least Four Decades and More

After the Death of So-called Yeshua Then Upon A Cross As So Many Others Were

Sacrificed
As Scape
Goats to
Make Examples
of Their Failings
To Make the Roman
Empire Grade of Rule

As True, the Roman Greek Speaking
And Writing Ghost Authors often Cherry
Picked the Oral Traditions Changed ACross Decades
And Centuries too; Oh, MY GOD What a Round Table Ruse...

And Muse, Both DarK And LiGHT STiLL NoW True As 'They' Chant An "Egregore
MeMe," (Nicene Creed) A MaGiC iNCaNTaTioN At Catholic Church STiLL Now to BRinG

JeSuS BacK to LiFE! God Yes, Even For Real, This Go All The Way Around Again;

Yet Its Also Marketing 101; True, STiLL NoW, If You (We) Are Going to Market
A Product, (We) You Must Find A Willing Target Audience to Buy What You (We)

Are Selling Now and It's True

God Yes! It's Not Always Easy
To Find tHE ALL IN ALL WiTHiN

Naked, Enough, Whole, Complete;

Where We Become Part of tHE ALL in All ThiS

Way Whole Or WTF Ya Wanna Name it With Abstract

Concepts; Yep, Human Co-Created Symbols Then; As All in All Now

Means No One Will Be Able to Subtract or Take Anything Away from You (US);

True, in this Autotelic Flow, One Generates Their Own Happiness Within Yet Again,

That's Not How Ya Master And Subjugate A Target Audience to Buy What Ya Are Selling;

Ya Gotta Have A Hook, And Bait, And Even a Sinker to Draw the Target Audience in Keeping 'em;

AND IF THEY ARE NAKED, ENOUGH, WHOLE, COMPLETE THIS WAY PART OF THE ALL IN ALL WHERE

NONE WILL BE
SUBTRACTED NOW
OR ADDED TO THEM;

FORGET ABOUT TRYING
TO SELL ME SOMETHING
AT The MaLL, i ALREADY HAVE IT ALL;

IT JUST DON'T WORK WITH THE ESSENCE
OF NATURE (GOD) ALL IN ALL NAKED,
ENOUGH, WHOLE, COMPLETE WITHIN, NOW;

(Don't Kid Yourself Though; IT STiLL Helps to be Financially
Independent For Real 'in Rome' STiLL NoW, WHere God is A CoiN)

Now To Be Clear, This is How i Did Luke 17:21,
Samadhi, Kundalini Rising, Prana, The Tao; Yes,
The Autotelic Flow of Naked, Enough, Whole Complete
in Meditating Contemplating Ways of Free Dance And Song For Real; Yes,

There Are As Many Paths to this Metaphor of the Kingdom of God Within;
This Heaven, This Satori, Now As Human Co-Created Metaphors to Describe

What the Essence

Of the Feeling And
Sensing Real Experience
of the Kingdom of Heaven Within IS NoW;

In Other Words, Unlimited Human Created Forms
For the Essence of All ThaT iS, When We Become the All
in All, Naked, Enough, Whole, Complete; Inhaling Peace,
ExhalinG LoVE iN JoY oF LiGHT, Giving, Sharing, Caring, Healing

(OH, BY ThiS WaY, THeRE iS No Dying NoW, Only Peace NoW
And Love Inhaling Exhaling Freely This Way With NO FEARS)

This Way For
All Now With

Least Harm;

Yet Remember, An Outcast

From All Cultures May Be A Most
Unbiased Individual of All When it Comes

to Studying the Meaning of Life At Essence More
Than the Forms that Cultures Create to Bond and Bind
Us to Their Particular Languages For What Makes Life Work Best to The

Cultural Group
Think Crowd

Source;

Whether for
Nefarious
or Benevalent
Reasons Put Forth, Indeed;

So, in the Paths of Evangelical Christianity,
One may AsK NoW, How They Determine God is

Revealed Best to Others; Well, True, it iS A VEry
Tribal Language; Which Means They Must Convince
You That THeir 'Quarterback' of THeir 'NFL Team' is the

Best Ever, Or You May Change Your Preference of Belief
From the New York Jets to the Washington Redskins And Now Generals AS Such...

So What Do they Usually Do; They Cherry Pick Another Verse Version From the
Old King James Minuscule Effort of A Bible, Less than 800,000 Words; Yawn, Mine
is 10.4 MiLLioN Words Long; Yet i Digress And Do My Best Not to Make this into

A Bible Wagging

Contest; Yes, Yes,

13 Times the Size

of that Old Minuscule

Effort and of Course God Yes,
Yes! 130 Times the Size Then of
The Old Quran That Took 23 Years
to Receive in About 2000 Words of
Vocabulary And A "Hare's Breath of 80,000 Words or so;"
A True Twitter Breath of Books For HiSToRiCaL Reference at Least in Total...

i Knock the Size of An Old King James Effort Out of the Park on Batting Average
Every 7 Months Now or So; in 8 Years and 8 Months of TOTAL Effort As of 4.18.2022!

More Specifically, The Math Is 10.4 Million Words Divided By 800,000; Yes, Exactly Lucky 13!

So Anyway, Their Tiny Verse of Effort to Meet Their Target Audiences of Folks Mostly

Living in SCaRCiTieS of Fear; WHere Sadly Addiction to the Adrenaline And Dopamine
of the Emotions of Fear Along With Hate That comes From Separating those Who Feel

Low in Illusions
of Feeling Higher
Than Others Who
Do Not Believe As They do...

As The So-called 'Chosen ones'

(Yep, The Fans of the New York Jets! too)

(Or Whatever Team Tom Brady is Playing
on Next For those Who See Him As Best too)

Comes As A 'Perfect Marketing
Recipe' of Romans 10:9; Yes, Let's
Take A Fair And Balanced Look At That Verse too:

Romans 10:9
King James Version:

9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

It Works Something Like This As i am Surely 'Dating all of my Close to 62 Years of Life' by 6.6.2022
Through this Analogy Now, hehe; "For Thou Shalt Confess With Thy Mouth the Lord Joe Namath is
The Best Quarterback in the NFL For the Religious Team of the New York Jets; And There is No Way

We Are Ever
Gonna

Win

The Bait
of A Super
Bowl Win Without
The Best QuarterBack ever then Joe Namath,
Tom Brady, Jesus, Or Which Ever Super Hero is Named Next...


Yet You See, For Capturing a Target Audience, Subject to the
Addiction to Fear And Hate, Coming From An Environment of
Desert Scarcity That Often Must Fight to the Death For BASiC Tribal Subsistence,

Romans 10:9, is often Strategically Placed By Commercial Ad When One Visits
A Cheap Fast Food Buffet in the Deep South Where i am From Most As After

One Eats the Buffet Meal, Without Always the Best of Sanitary Practices By the
Employees of the Cheap Buffet;

One May Find Themselves

Rushing, Rather Quick
Stepping to the Restroom

And Once You Get There, You
Will Find A Commercial Ad FOR "Good News"

(OH GOD YUCK, ATTACHED to the Toilet
Where it Come to BeLong in the Restroom
THere; Reminds me of 'Gehenna, Indeed' too...)

Until the Fear Comes on the Back of the
Commercial Ad that Says if You Do Not Believe
in the Way We Are Telling You God is Revealed As
A Dead Dude From 2000 Years Ago Come Back As
A Zombie From the Dead, You Go To Hell and Burn Forever EVEN more then...

(God Damned Jalapeno Pepper Recipe at the All You Can Eat Cheap Buffet)

Hmm, Yet You See
The Carrot is, You Are

No Longer Just A Commoner
From a Place of Desert Scarcity
Who Is Never Naked, Enough, Whole,
Complete Generating Your Own Happiness Within;

Now You Have A Crutch to an Addiction of Fear and Hate

And One May Even Elevate That Crutch to 'Q-Anon Non-Sense'

of the Same Addiction to Fear and Hate As Well, Separating Ourselves

Not Only From 'the All in All' Naked, Enough, Whole, Complete Within Yet

Addicted to

Someone
Else's Story;

Buying the Whole
Snake Oil Salesperson
Routine of Hook, Bait, And

Sinker From Heaven to Hell too
As Illusory Stories Make Human Realities ThiS Way too...

Yawn, i Didn't Touch that Nasty Ad in the Fast Food Buffet Stinky Restroom;

i Was Already Sick Enough From the Hook, Bait, And Sinker of the Fast Food Buffet;

('They' Already Gave me one at the Book Store, Telling me i Would Surely Become
Demon Possessed by Reading A Book About Yoga; Particularly, if i practiced Balance)

'Perfect Analogy'

'For that Version'

of Finding God, Indeed

A Fast Food Buffet; Just
A Quick Fix for What's Missing Within...

Again, Mileage Varies Among Different
Makes and Models of Human Vessels and Vehicles of

Existence;

For Some

The Feeling
of Fear and

Hate is Better

Than Just Feeling
Small Insignificant

And Never Naked, Enough,
Whole, Complete With the Kingdom
of Heaven Experiencing ALL iN ALL iN
BaLaNCE Now

Within Free;

"Luke 17:21"

For Every Touch
Down And Homerun
Free Within; Yep, Just for Free
And A Whole Lot of Laser Focus
in Autotelic Flow of Free Dance And
Song for me to Staycation in Heaven Always
Reaching New Heights of Human Potentials Now
NeW in Complexity of Dance And Song Free ThiS Way;

Just Effortless
'Wu Wei' Ease;

Constantly

Dancing A Tight
Rope Higher and Higher
Now For Real AS Heaven
Stays All in All Within ThiS Way,

Staycationing indeed

With
SMiLes...

It May Sound A Bit
Like A Camel Passing
Through the EYe of A Needle
From Afar; Yet Truly Every Holy
Word And Sacred Step is Effortless
Wu Wei Ease As the Butcher's Blade

No Longer
Dulls Now

And the
Soles of my
Athletic Nike
Shox Shoes Now

Last Close to a Year
as Opposed to Only
3 Years in Heaven Practice Before;

(my Soul Grows LiGHTeR Younger And THere is
Some Evidence That Science Shows
Autotelic Flow In Meditation And
Contemplating Existence in Balance

This Way Actually Re-Generates the Gray
Matter in Our Brains And Folks Often Give
me a 2 Decade Mulligan on my Numerical Age)

The Law of Nature Number 1, Is Balance;
if Planets and Stars Are Not FRiEnDS With

Gravity

They 'Lucifer
Fall' Instead of

Staying Above Now WiTH SMiLes...

Happy Easter, The Birth of Every Inhale
of Peace Exhale of Love Now As The Rest of
the Never Ending Story Continues Now in Nether Land Real
in A Place of No Moon or Stars Generated By the 'Revenge of the
Nerds'

Online

And Don't
Forget the
Richest Dude
in the World Has
Asperger's Syndrome;

Only Difference Between
me and Him is His Riches Are Based on NuMBeRS...

My Riches Are Based on Luke 17:21; Naked, Enough,

Whole,

Complete;

Part of the
All in All, Nothing

to Subtract or Add to me Now...

Yet of Course, i Will Continue to
Fulfill Greater Human Potentials Now
Per "John 14:12" as Real Now True too; For i DO Believe

As the Oracle From the Matrix Danced And Sung And i Damn
Sure Can Architect Some NumBeRS STiLL NoW True, Hehe...

Key, Play Slays
Fear, If You take
This Life Business
Too Serious, Be Prepared
to Fall Out Of Balance As Well Away From Play...

Love Makes All That IS Worth IT; Still Bottom Line to me, With SMiLes..:)



Not exactly true. The Bible is the most reliably copied ancient text there is. Current translations mostly use common sources. The translation I like is based primarily on the Masoretic Text (Biblica Hebraica Stuttgartensia, aka the Leningrad Codex) with some parts influenced by the LXX. And of course the Greek New Testament. It is well known which languages were originally used in the text, which books have disputed origins or are apocryphal, and even passages that never appeared in the oldest manuscripts, such as the story about the adulteress. You can even dig up old Bibles as recent as the 1800s that have passages that were shown to be later additions that never should have been included and have since been deleted. If anything, Bible translation and scholarship have dramatically improved in recent times through closer examination of source texts and archeological discoveries.

Language conventions have changed over the centuries, though, making popular translations unclear. King James English, for example, makes use of grammar and obscure idioms not familiar to contemporary English-speaking people. At the time it was written, it was a scholarly masterpiece. It still is. KJV-only proponents make a strong point. But having a more precise language and grammar won't help ordinary Bible readers if they don't understand how subtle changes render things entirely different from what was intended.

Contemporary translators attempt to work with present-day language to convey as closely as possible the intended meaning of the sources.

The only thing I don't like about the original KJV is its reliance on the Vulgate. The Vulgate wasn't itself a terrible translation. But, again, you’ve got a translation of sources that made sense to Latin-speaking Romans but translated from Latin into English obscures the original meaning. In other words, the KJV itself was a translation of a translation. Later revisions of the KJV corrected this, but not by much since the original was already quite good.

I enjoy the HCSB, but as the English language is dynamic there will come a day when revision is necessary. People give me Bibles from time to time, and one I haven't opened yet is the ESV. I’ll likely give it a read and see it I like it. Supposedly it is more word-for-word than the HCSB. The HCSB itself has already been superseded by the CSB, but I’m concerned about the motivation for reverting to older translation conventions. For example, the HCSB attempted to clarify the usage of The Name. Previous translations redacted The Name and replaced it with euphemisms like “The name of the Lord” or stylized the word “LORD” somehow depending on the exact word used in the source. I was annoyed that the CSB editors did that. However, if anyone cares which word for “God” was originally used, there are usually notes included to help the reader understand exactly what was in the manuscripts. And, of course, there the usual annotations and cross-references, alternate texts that differ among various manuscripts (MT vs LXX), and so on to help the reader understand the Bible without needing a Ph.D. in dead languages.



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17 Apr 2022, 2:16 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Remember where the rich young ruler came to Jesus and said that he had kept all the commandments, what else did he need to do and Jesus said to sell/give all his material wealth to the poor; and the guy went away sad because he had great wealth?


Was God commanding just him to do this or all of us?


I don't understand how that question even arises from the passage given, it is clear at simple face value that Jesus' conversation is with that specific guy about that guy's specific life.


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17 Apr 2022, 3:59 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
If there was no shift in attitude, then it becomes difficult to understand what Jesus was for.
It says outright in Genesis 3 what Jesus was for:
:arrow: Note: the capitalization of Seed and His is a Bible translator convention when God or Jesus are referred to.
"
14 And YHWH God says to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed [are] you above all the livestock, and above every beast of the field: on your belly you go, and dust you eat, [for] all days of your life;

15 and I put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He bruises your head, and you bruise His heel.”
"
Since the FM and CFS/ME are roughing me up today & I'm not much good for deep thinking or abundant typing, I will suggest the commentaries here https://biblehub.com/commentaries/genesis/3-15.htm


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17 Apr 2022, 4:28 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Hey, maybe Jesus, the son of God can come too or wait a minute is Jesus God as well? Which is it exactly?


That is another one of those "is it this or that?" where the correct answer is, Yes, it is this and that, the miracle is that Jesus was completely God AND completely human at the same time.

Hos does that work?
Well, an infinite, omnipotent, eternal, self-existing being, was able to make it work even though our finite mortal single-location minds have trouble sortihg out the mechanics of the thing.

And yes, there are a few times that Jesus claimed to be, asserted the he is, God and did so in an in-your-face enough manner that the religious authorities moved to try to kill him right then and right there.

One example, several translations, From John 8.

International Standard Version
Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!"

Literal Standard Version
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham’s coming—I AM”;

New American Bible
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.”


And then what happened was,

"
Before Abraham was Born, I Am
…57Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?” 58“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple area.…
Berean Study Bible"

That "I AM" bit really rubbed them the wrong way becaues,
"
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
"

:arrow: I like the way the following translation presents the relevant text,

First: a note from the publisher,
"
This is a literal translation of the 1900+ year old Aramaic Old Testament called the Peshitta. Aramaic was the native language of Jesus and of Israel in the 1st century AD. This volume contains the Minor Prophets: Hosea, Joel, Amos,Obadiah,Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zecharaih, Malachi. The text translated is the 6th-7th century Codex Ambrosianus- the oldest complete Semitic Old Testament extant. The Peshitta Old Testament was very likely translated from the Hebrew Bible in the 1st century AD in Israel by Christian coverts from Judaism, or possibly Syrian Christians from across Israel's border. Either way, the Peshitta Old and New Testaments together constitute the first Christian Bible. The author has translated and published interlinears of the Aramaic Peshitta Torah, Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, as well as the entire Aramaic Peshitta New Testament and plain English translations of the NT, the Torah, the Psalms & Proverbs."

:arrow: Now the text, https://biblehub.com/hpbt/john/8.htm

I'm going to copy a chunk of it to here for ease of future access and reference,

"
12And Yeshua spoke again with them and he said: “I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Light of the world. Whoever follows me shall not walk in darkness but shall find the light of life.” 13The Pharisees were saying to him: “You are testifying about yourself; your testimony is not true.” 14Yeshua answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about myself, my testimony is true, because I know from where I have come and where I am going, but you do not know from where I have come and where I am going.” 15“You are judging carnally; I am judging no one.” 16“But even if I do judge, my judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I and my Father who has sent Me.” 17“And in your Written Law it is written: 'The testimony of two men is true.' “ 18“I AM THE LIVING GOD, I who testify about myself, and my Father who has sent me has testified about Me.” 19They were saying to him, “Where is your Father?” Yeshua answered and said to them, “You know neither me nor my Father. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.” 20He spoke these words in the treasury as he taught in The Temple, and no man seized him, for his hour had not yet come.

21Yeshua spoke again to them: “I am moving on and you will seek me and you will die in your sins, and where I am going, you cannot come.” 22The Judeans were saying, “Will he now kill himself?”, because he had said, “Where I am going, you cannot come.” 23And he said to them, “You are from below and I am from above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.” 24“I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins.” 25The Judeans were saying, “Who are you?” Yeshua said to them, “Even though I have begun to talk with you, 26There are many things for me to say and judge concerning you, but he who has sent me is true, and those things that I have heard from him, these things I am speaking in the world.” 27And they did not know that he spoke to them about The Father. 28Yeshua spoke again to them: “When you have lifted up The Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM THE LIVING GOD, and I do nothing for my own pleasure, but just as my Father has taught me, so I am speaking. 29And he who has sent me is with me, and my Father has not left me alone, because I am doing always what is beautiful to him.” 30When he was speaking these things, many trusted in him.

31And Yeshua said to those Judeans who trusted in him, “If you will continue in my word, you are truly my disciples.” 32“And you will know the truth, and that truth will set you free.” 33And they were saying to him, “We are the seed of Abraham, and never have we served in bondage to a man; how do you say, “You shall be children of liberty”?

34Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Whoever commits sin is a servant of sin.” 35“And a servant does not always remain in the house, but a son always remains.” 36“If The Son therefore will set you free, you will truly be the children of liberty.” 37“I know you are the seed of Abraham, but you seek to kill me because you cannot comprehend my word.” 38“I am speaking the thing I have seen with my Father; you are doing the thing that you have seen with your father.”

39They answered and were saying to him, “Abraham is our father.” Yeshua said to them, “If you were children of Abraham, you would have been doing the works of Abraham.” 40“But now, behold, you are seeking to kill me; I am a man who have spoken the truth with you, which I have heard from God; this Abraham did not do.” 41“But you are doing the deeds of your father.” They were saying to him, “We are not from fornication; we have one father, God.”

42Yeshua said unto them, “If God were your father, you would have loved me, for I have proceeded from God and have not come of my own pleasure, but he has sent Me.” 43“And why do you not understand my word? It is because you cannot hear my word.” 44“You are from your father The Devil, and the desire of your father you are willing to do; from the beginning he has been murdering men and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him; whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from what is his, because he is of falsehood and is also its father.” 45“But you are not believing in me, I who am speaking the truth.” 46“Who among you is convicting me of sin? And if I speak the truth, why do you not believe me?” 47“Whoever is from God hears God's words; therefore you are not hearing, because you are not from God.”
"

BOLD at end of following added by me:

"
48The Jews answered and they were saying to him, “Are we not saying correctly that you are a Samaritan and have a demon in you?” 49Yeshua said to them, “A demon is not in me, but I honor my Father and you dishonor Me.” 50“But I am not seeking my glory; There is One who seeks and judges.” 51“Timeless truth I speak to you: whoever keeps my word shall never see death.” 52The Jews were saying to him, “Now we know that a demon is in you; Abraham is dead and The Prophets, and you are saying, 'Whoever keeps my words shall never taste death.' “ 53“Are you greater than our father Abraham who died and The Prophets who have died? Who are you making yourself?” 54Yeshua said to them, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, he of whom you say, 'He is our God.' “ 55“And you do not know him, but I know him, and if I had said that I did not know him, I Myself would have been a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word.” 56“Abraham your father desired to see my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57The Jews were saying to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham?” 58Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” 59And they picked up stones to stone him, and Yeshua hid himself and went out from The Temple and passed through their midst and moved on.
"


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17 Apr 2022, 4:29 pm

AngelRho wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Because He hasn’t revealed Himself to me—plain and simple.

No long-winded philosophical discussion will convince me otherwise.

People who do “believe” I have respect for, and I will not try to convince them that it is otherwise.

Sure He has. It's never a matter of whether God reveals Himself to all people, but whether people truly want to believe.

What does that mean? "Sure he has" ?? I've never heard so much as a squeak out of any deity, and Kortie's experience appears to be the same as mine. In what way are you saying that a deity has revealed itself to me and Kortie?

"It's never a matter of whether God reveals Himself to all people, but whether people truly want to believe." ?? What kind of maniac believes what he wants to believe regardless of evidence? I'd love to believe I was immortal, but sad to say, the evidence that's so far come to my attention tells me otherwise. Occasionally I hear religious people come out with this "the proof of God's existence is staring you in the face but you're too arrogant to see it" thing, but they can never explain what this "proof" actually looks like, or how it proves their assertion. Best guess, somebody made it up to demonise secular people. Here's the earliest use of the "argument" I've found - in Paul's not-so-subtle hateball against non-Christians:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

I hope he doesn't mean us. 8O But there's not much nuance in his words. Maybe he just meant Nero and his pals, but his reference to "people are without excuse" seems a pretty global assertion. He certainly wasn't very careful to acknowledge the existence of unbelievers who are as good as any Christian.



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17 Apr 2022, 4:31 pm

A YouTube channel which I think is well worth spending the time there;
https://www.youtube.com/c/MikeWinger/featured

"
Description
You will learn to think biblically about everything so you can deal with false teaching, know what Scripture says about specific issues, prove Christianity is true, go deep into theology and become a go to resource for biblical knowledge so you can help others. I have a passion for helping others to carefully and thoughtfully understand and apply the Bible by creating the well-researched biblical content that you have been starving for ever since you first believed.
I’m Mike Winger, a pastor who has served in ministry for over 20 years in the local church and I have a heavy burden on my heart to get REAL Bible teaching and knowledge into the lives of others. I want to give you the teaching I’ve been craving for my whole Christian life. I want you to be able to hear me make the case for my views and to be able to reason it through for yourself.

I go live Mondays and Fridays at 1pm pacific time.

You can go beyond YT by following at the links below.
"


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17 Apr 2022, 4:32 pm

AngelRho wrote:
HighLlama wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
I've been told that God has a nature that he is bound to. God can't go against his own nature.

The nature of everything else comes from God including myself.

God has also given all a set of commandments, statutes and laws we're all expected to go by. To transgress is to disobey God and to sin means to transgress God.

Sin is simply to go against the rules, laws, commandments, statutes God has put into place.

But, what is God's nature exactly and where does this nature come from?

What gives God his nature? What makes God well God?

If God has no control over his nature and did not give himself his nature then God is bounded to his nature and this boundary came from somewhere not even God himself would know? Would there be anything that God didn't know that he didn't know? And, how would God even know that he didn't even know this?

If God has control over his nature and he himself gave himself a nature then claiming that something would violate his nature seems to push the problem back a step.

Skit I made up!

God: What you ask goes against my nature to do?

Me: Where does your nature come from?

God: Me! I am the alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. I define all there was, is and ever will be! I simply, I am!

Me! If you control your nature then how does what I ask go against your nature? Remember, you created me with Aspergers so I'm extremely confused especially with abstract language.

God: I'm God! I define nature! I am perfection. I define the essence of what you call logic. In fact, I am pure logic.
I define all.

Me: Huh??? God, it took me a lot of reverse engineering to understand that postivity and negativity was referring to emotional states and not Boolean logic and/or mathematics. I have no clue as to what you are saying. If I could barely grasp this do you think I would be able to be able to understand anything meaningful from your words in the Bible and what you're saying? Come on God! You created me. You should know.


Spinoza answered all this--probably better than anyone ever will--in Ethics.

Spinoza. Eeeewwww.


You're a 43 year-old pushing faith, and that's your response? This is why PPR has the reputation it does.



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17 Apr 2022, 4:44 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
I hope he doesn't mean us. But there's not much nuance in his words.


Paul totally means us, means you, means me, means every human who ever lived.

Quote:
He certainly wasn't very careful to acknowledge the existence of unbelievers who are as good as any Christian.


When referring to sin and salvation how "good" any of us humans are, both unbeliever AND believer, is absolutely irrelevant to the condition of sin and the need for the salvation Jesus offers.

The standard is God, who is infinite and perfect, hence, infinitely perfect.

Any of us humans who are infinitely perfect are qualified to enter his presence.
All other humans are not qualified.
As a result of the fall there are not and can not be infinitely perfect humans.

That is a large part of why Jesus is required.


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17 Apr 2022, 5:18 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
If there was no shift in attitude, then it becomes difficult to understand what Jesus was for.
It says outright in Genesis 3 what Jesus was for:
:arrow: Note: the capitalization of Seed and His is a Bible translator convention when God or Jesus are referred to.
"
14 And YHWH God says to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed [are] you above all the livestock, and above every beast of the field: on your belly you go, and dust you eat, [for] all days of your life;

15 and I put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He bruises your head, and you bruise His heel.”
"
Since the FM and CFS/ME are roughing me up today & I'm not much good for deep thinking or abundant typing, I will suggest the commentaries here https://biblehub.com/commentaries/genesis/3-15.htm

Sorry to hear you're feeling rough, hope you get better soon.

It's hard for me to figure out what that Genesis quote was trying to say. Best guess, something like "God set up a war between (taken literally) people and snakes, which symbolically means good and evil." But I don't see how that gives Jesus a role. The commentaries seem to be trying to translate the highly mystical, symbolic words of Genesis into something a little more tangible, and they offer the possibility that it might have meant that Jesus would one day come and resolve the conflict - or something like that - but they stop short of saying exactly what it might mean. Is it even known what the average person would have understood by it all when it was first written? I get the impression that ancient minds had very different ways of thinking to the way we think nowadays, and it seems odd that Christians still tell modern humans that the Bible is completely true, that it's all in there. Even the experts struggle to make sense of it, and don't know exactly what some of it might have meant. There's a phrase "it's all Greek to me," meaning "this makes no sense to me," and this is a quantum leap more nebulous than Greek. So, sad to say, from my point of view, which is the only one I have, I can't see any clear indication of a role for Jesus in it.



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17 Apr 2022, 5:34 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
I hope he doesn't mean us. But there's not much nuance in his words.


Paul totally means us, means you, means me, means every human who ever lived.

Quote:
He certainly wasn't very careful to acknowledge the existence of unbelievers who are as good as any Christian.


When referring to sin and salvation how "good" any of us humans are, both unbeliever AND believer, is absolutely irrelevant to the condition of sin and the need for the salvation Jesus offers.

The standard is God, who is infinite and perfect, hence, infinitely perfect.

Any of us humans who are infinitely perfect are qualified to enter his presence.
All other humans are not qualified.
As a result of the fall there are not and can not be infinitely perfect humans.

That is a large part of why Jesus is required.

Exactly. Before the crucifixion, repentance and faith were demonstrated through animal sacrifice. Grace was always bestowed on those seeking it. Jesus fulfilled the promise of the sacrifice and ended the need for it.

I wouldn't much mind reinstating sacrifices. It's not forbidden. It's just not consistent with Hebrew practices. I think it would be satisfying to pick the very best cow from a herd, have it slaughtered and meticulously prepared, give thanks to God and ask for His blessing, sear the meat to perfection on a large grill, and invite everyone on the block to share since leftovers aren't allowed.



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17 Apr 2022, 5:37 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
I hope he doesn't mean us. But there's not much nuance in his words.


Paul totally means us, means you, means me, means every human who ever lived.



What, even verses 29 to 31?
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

I don't claim to be perfect, but that list of offenses is laughably wide of the mark, as it is for most atheists. So if he totally meant me, he's made a huge mistake. I can't speak for Kortie, but somehow I feel pretty sure he didn't commit many of those sins either.



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17 Apr 2022, 6:05 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
When referring to sin and salvation how "good" any of us humans are, both unbeliever AND believer, is absolutely irrelevant to the condition of sin and the need for the salvation Jesus offers.

The standard is God, who is infinite and perfect, hence, infinitely perfect.

Any of us humans who are infinitely perfect are qualified to enter his presence.
All other humans are not qualified.
As a result of the fall there are not and can not be infinitely perfect humans.

That is a large part of why Jesus is required.


That recalls to my mind something George Eliot wrote:
Indeed we are most of us brought up in the notion that the highest motive for not doing a wrong is something irrespective of the beings who would suffer the wrong
She wasn't taking a pop at Christianity, her remark was about a character in her book "Middlemarch" who, having let his friend down, was so completely wrapped up in his own sense of guilt and in what others thought of him, that he didn't spare a thought for the welfare of his victim.

But it's that detachment from the plight of victims that seems to me a wrong turn in some forms of Christianity. It's as though everything's deemed to be OK as long as the sinner has made it up with God. By divorcing from a definition of "wrongdoing" based on what harm a person does to others, the Christian idea of right and wrong risks ignoring the victim, or only considers the victim when the deity tells them to.

When supernatural, cosmic morality deviates from social morality, people are harmed. If cosmic morality never deviates from social morality, then it makes no difference which one a person chooses to follow, the result will be exactly the same. I see nothing wrong with the notion that if a person does no harm, then they can't be rightly construed to be in any way bad or "sinful."