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Awesomelyglorious
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05 Aug 2007, 9:23 pm

snake321 wrote:
What the blue hell? I get flamed all the time for saying things that might be "politically incorrect" but have merit, this guys comes on here and supports sweat shops, war for power, beating his dog for fun, exploiting starving nations for his own benefit, and he gets praised?

You get flamed all of the time for how you express your ideas. Really though, merit is often found in the eye of the beholder. I don't consider myself praised for being a good person, but rather simply in not being as discourteous as you are in this conversation.
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Is this your catholic morality gwenyvyn?

How is this a matter of much morality, she didn't say I was moral, she said that she thought I was doing something well. A statement others have been kind enough to give you in this thread as well, notably the admiration in Lindarthebard for your description of society. I think she would oppose my political views, but being wrong in one area doesn't mean that one isn't right in another and I think that a catholic morality would likely appreciate that aspect given that most Christian theology does state that man is fallen and cannot be perfect.



Jimbogf
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05 Aug 2007, 10:23 pm

Whoa snake you need to calm down. I thought I was a cynical and arrogant, but you make me look like a monk compared to you. You are always saying that we need to deviate from our selfish human nature because of all the problems it causes in modern society. Look at yourself! How can you expect people to take you seriously when you flame and cuss at people that disagree with you? Your behaviour that you display on these forums is the very essence of human animal behaviour that you 'preach' against.


I have some respect for AG, he made me realize how much of a arrogant hypocrite I am. I was also ignoring some key logic because of my arrogance.
I now consider deviating completely from our nature is impossible, "It is inconceivable how much we are driven by one illogical drive or another, and to claim we can escape them is to ignore how important these things are for us." Our nature is a permanent part of our minds and can't be ignored.



gwenevyn
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05 Aug 2007, 10:43 pm

There's probably little I could add to what has already been said. AG is correct in his guesses as to my thoughts. I do not agree with some of his positions, but I like the civil tone he has maintained. For many of us, that sort of charity doesn't come easily, and it is a very useful skill to have.

I was hoping not to make snake feel insulted, but rather to offer some encouragement for the good behavior I did see.

Sometimes when we have a good point to make, but we present it in a confrontational manner, we miss our chance to make a difference. I can understand your anger over some of the issues that are important to you, snake. I think it's important to learn to form, temper, and direct that passion in a way more conducive to productive dialogue. I'm not claiming to have the key--I'm sure I come across as a jerk, too, in many circumstances--but I have been very pleased over the past few years to note that as my tone became less acerbic, people's ears became more open to what I'd been wanting to communicate.



snake321
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06 Aug 2007, 12:57 am

Jimbogf wrote:
Whoa snake you need to calm down. I thought I was a cynical and arrogant, but you make me look like a monk compared to you. You are always saying that we need to deviate from our selfish human nature because of all the problems it causes in modern society. Look at yourself! How can you expect people to take you seriously when you flame and cuss at people that disagree with you? Your behaviour that you display on these forums is the very essence of human animal behaviour that you 'preach' against.


I have some respect for AG, he made me realize how much of a arrogant hypocrite I am. I was also ignoring some key logic because of my arrogance.
I now consider deviating completely from our nature is impossible, "It is inconceivable how much we are driven by one illogical drive or another, and to claim we can escape them is to ignore how important these things are for us." Our nature is a permanent part of our minds and can't be ignored.


It's not as hard as it sounds, before all this 9/11 crap people actually had a universal common sense morality that understood screwing people over was wrong. Because people weren't so lazy about challenging their impulses, and didn't use human nature as an excuse or a crutch. Did people get out of line sometimes? Yes, but in general people were more able to put their animal in check long enough to make rational decisions and were better able to compromise. Of coarse your not gonna become some perfect superhuman, but hell it's not impossible to ask oneself why they think or feel the way they do about things.
So your an admitted hypocrite, and rather than try to improve you use it as a crutch to lean on in order to keep acting that way. This is why nothing you say will hold any validity debating anymore because you can say "oh so and so shouldn't do this or that" but then you go out an do whatever your accusing whoever of doing.
I am angry to a large degree because I live in a society where 95% of the people are sociopaths and don't even try to improve. It's not beyond our capabilities to challenge some of these things, this liberal/conservative mentality wasn't around before 9/11. Now days America has became a highschool, clique-ish nation where someone identifies with one view from a party, and then blindly follows everything else that party believes without question and gets defensive whenever someone speaks the unbiased truth. Sociopathy isn't normal because 95% of society says it is, this type of mentality is dangerous.



snake321
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06 Aug 2007, 12:59 am

But I'm sure most people find it entertaining, and afterall it's all about being entertained :roll: Peoples' livelihood and well being is a game to the ruling elite, right?



Ragtime
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06 Aug 2007, 1:05 am

Mitch8817 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Mitch8817 wrote:
I fit your points, and others who don't disappoint me somewhat. Then again, my expectations of myself and others were always a bit high.


The problem is, you're so much higher up than the rest of us. When will we learn to just be like you? :|


Sorry, I must have missed your point here. Is this some sarcastic insult?


Yes.


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Ragtime
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06 Aug 2007, 1:06 am

snake321 wrote:
Well i fear this liberal/conservative divide is destroying our nation's cohesiveness, and our ability to function as a unit.


The Antichrist will bring the unity you seek.

In fact, he'll be the greatest unifier our planet has ever seen. Not a polarizing truth-teller, like Jesus, who admitted he was just that.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 06 Aug 2007, 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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06 Aug 2007, 1:12 am

snake321 wrote:
I also think it's kinda dumb in my opinion to get all your ideas from one book, and societal interpretations of that book. I mean any ideology, be it political, religious, sociological, I seriously doubt if anyone thought about it for themselves they would agree with everything one source says. Yes, I have studied some theology, and I take parts that I agree with out of religions and political ideologies, but it's not like I tell myself "well since I agree with them on this one issue I'll just agree with them on everything".


I agree. If a man got ALL his opinions from a single book, then, regardless of what that book was, he'd not be able to function well -- if at all! It's a good thing there's no book that tells you not to get any opinion outside of itself. Such an exclusion of outside information is a defining element of cults. This is a somewhat dated statistic, but only around 3-4% of Americans read books (outside of school-required ones). But among Christians, the percentage is much higher. They are generally well-read people. Like my best friend, who, in his study of Scripture, has 9 full bookshelves, full of history, philosophy, and theology books, all of which he has read. He has become a true scholar in his pursuit of the truths of God.

And then, there's his former theology professor, Dr. John Warwick Montgomery, a conservative Christian who has 11 earned degrees, and practices as a barrister in England. His degrees are in philosophy, librarianship, theology, and law, and they include: the A.B. with distinction in Philosophy (Cornell University; Phi Beta Kappa), B.L.S. and M.A. (University of California, Berkeley), B.D. and S.T.M. (Wittenberg University, Springfield, Ohio), LL.B. (La Salle Extension University), M. Phil. in Law (University of Essex, England), Ph.D. (University of Chicago), Th.D Doctorat d'Universite (University of Strasbourg), LLM and LLD in canon law (Cardiff University). He also holds an honorary doctorate awarded in 1999 by the Institute for Religion and Law, Moscow.

Yet, he's very plainspoken, and humble in his approach to explaining his vast knowledge and wisdom. That's a true Christian: one who is both well-educated in Christ, and humbly helpful in his dealings with his fellow man.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 06 Aug 2007, 1:29 am, edited 6 times in total.

Flagg
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06 Aug 2007, 1:16 am

Ragtime wrote:
snake321 wrote:
Well i fear this liberal/conservative divide is destroying our nation's cohesiveness, and our ability to function as a unit.


The Antichrist will bring the unity you seek.

In fact, he'll be the greatest unifier our planet has ever seen. Not a polarizing truth-telling, like Jesus, who admitted he was just that.


Right :roll:

The human race will only die when the universe runs out of energy (If we manage to keep bettering ourselves), the true enemy of humanity is Entropy.



greenblue
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06 Aug 2007, 2:04 am

An aspie antichrist?


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Flagg
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06 Aug 2007, 2:06 am

I'd pay to see that.



Mitch8817
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06 Aug 2007, 3:38 am

Ragtime wrote:
Mitch8817 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Mitch8817 wrote:
I fit your points, and others who don't disappoint me somewhat. Then again, my expectations of myself and others were always a bit high.


The problem is, you're so much higher up than the rest of us. When will we learn to just be like you? :|


Sorry, I must have missed your point here. Is this some sarcastic insult?


Yes.


Charming as usual, I see. Perhaps you should get a shirt on and practice some more neighbor loving.


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Flagg
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06 Aug 2007, 3:40 am

The egomania is so enriching.

Makes me feel like I am trapped in some upper class party.



techstepgenr8tion
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06 Aug 2007, 4:07 am

Free thinking is actually pretty simple, the only core criteria as far as I see it is did your own thoughts, analytics, and careful consideration of reality lead you to where your at? You could be really radical or you could be really conservative - its neither here nor there as much of the issue of how you arrived at your conclusions about life, politics, spiritual beliefs, etc.



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06 Aug 2007, 9:33 am

Quote:
Now days America has became a highschool, clique-ish nation where someone identifies with one view from a party, and then blindly follows everything else that party believes without question and gets defensive whenever someone speaks the unbiased truth.


They are rabid liberals or rabid anti liberals.

I don't know if it was 9-11 of just being the first time in like 50 years the republicans controlled the government or it's just that everyone has computers now so the flow of information has grown by leaps and bounds. Bush is really the first internet president.
The average person was just getting online in the late 90's.

people have learned so much about what is going on, they are flipping out about it and most are one issue voters, so they join the group that supports their veiw of that one issue and as long as that group is behind their isssue, that group can do no wrong on all the things they really don't care much about.

we also now live in a nation of welfare people, like half the population is getting some benefit from the government spending and the other half is paying.

It's not really in the form of direct payments, more like people benefiting from the spending. like the average parent pays less in taxes than the cost of the benefits they receive from the government, they benefit from government spending on education for their kids and don't even come close to paying enough taxes to cover the cost of the benefit they get.
The government is also a jobs machine and lots of people benefit by working for the nanny state.

yes we are more divided and it's more along the lines of who is paying and who is benefiting.

Half the nation is mooching off the other half and using the voting booth to do it. The mooches are livid that it's no longer so easy to use the voting booths to transfer wealth to them and the people that have been getting mooched off of are livid after learning so many people where mooching off them so much. they had no idea how many people where sucking off them.