Pastor Barnhart explains right-wing anti-abortion politics.

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auntblabby
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14 May 2022, 10:24 pm

we are long over due for a third party, a viable third party like just about every other western representative democracy.



ironpony
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15 May 2022, 11:59 pm

Well as far as the baby formula shortage goes, why is the government hoarting it all for immigrants? Is this what the democrats and liberals want in the US, for the immigrants to get all the baby formula, where as they get none? If so, why do people want that? Are liberals hoping this will discourage conservatives from being pro-life, if they cannot have baby formula to feed their potential future babies?



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16 May 2022, 12:02 am

ironpony wrote:
Well as far as the baby formula shortage goes, why is the government hoarting it all for immigrants? Is this what the democrats and liberals want in the US, for the immigrants to get all the baby formula, where as they get none? If so, why do people want that? Are liberals hoping this will discourage conservatives from being pro-life, if they cannot have baby formula to feed their potential future babies?


The shortage of baby formula has to do with supply chain issues and a major recall.



ironpony
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16 May 2022, 12:07 am

Oh what caused the recall?



Tim_Tex
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16 May 2022, 12:09 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh what caused the recall?


Bacterial contamination



ironpony
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16 May 2022, 12:19 am

Well why doesn't the company just put out a statement saying that then, to clear the air, rather than have people believe it is being hoarded, and possibly for illegal immigrants?



magz
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16 May 2022, 2:02 am

ironpony wrote:
Well why doesn't the company just put out a statement saying that then, to clear the air, rather than have people believe it is being hoarded, and possibly for illegal immigrants?
I think they did.


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Tim_Tex
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16 May 2022, 4:18 am

It would take a China-style Cultural Revolution to undo the damage the American Right has done.



magz
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16 May 2022, 4:20 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
It would take a China-style Cultural Revolution to undo the damage the American Right has done.
That would be disastrous itself :pale:
Reforms are how you avoid revolutions.


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16 May 2022, 7:08 am

magz wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
It would take a China-style Cultural Revolution to undo the damage the American Right has done.
That would be disastrous itself. Reforms are how you avoid revolutions.
But how to re-educate the half of America that believes that only THEY have both the right and the privilege of telling others what to do?

You know, the people who claim that the national religion should be a form of "Christianity" that justifies slavery, the subjugation of women, the denial of rights, vigilante justice, and public lynchings.



Last edited by Fnord on 16 May 2022, 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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16 May 2022, 7:10 am

^ Even with all this, you don't want a China-style cultural revolution.
Really.


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16 May 2022, 7:28 am

magz wrote:
^ Even with all this, you don't want a China-style cultural revolution.  Really.
True, but the "White Right" might.

The Cultural Revolution was an effort to purge foreign ideas from CCP and return its economy to an agrarian one.  Intellectuals (i.e., teachers, journalists, artists, scientists, et cetera) were rounded up and "re-educated" with Communist Party doctrine.  Those who resisted were tortured until they recanted, and many were made to disappear instead.

Now, consider all the whacko ideas the "White Right" has been expressing since this country was established, use them instead of commie ideology, and you have the only kind of revolution this country is likely to experience -- an effort to forcibly purge liberal ideas from America and return its economy to a slave-based one in which only the white male leadership has any of the Constitutionally-guaranteed rights we enjoy today.

THAT is what the "White Right" wants.



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17 May 2022, 3:07 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
It would take a China-style Cultural Revolution to undo the damage the American Right has done.


Tim Tex, didn't you used to be some sort of Republican? I mean, I know a lot of them are basically liberals anyway, but they're not normally as hysterical about it as you. So what happened? Did you decide that moaning about the Right was more likely to help you fit in around here or something?

To be honest, I do find it odd that, for someone who so hysterically complains about the Right's effect on society, the substance of your complaint never seems to amount to more than whining that your society isn't sexually permissive enough. In contrast, a lot of the other left-liberal rubbish I read on WP, as much as it sickens me, at least pretends to have some sort of high-minded idealism behind it.

The claim in your post is ridiculous by the way. The truth of the matter is that America has been undergoing a Leftist cultural revolution for decades while the Right have mostly just stood there and allowed it. The main reason the Right has been banging on about the comparatively unimportant subject of abortion for decades is because it's just about the only political scrap the Left, in all their ruthlessness, allows them. And such controversies help to keep the leftist rank-and-file in a constant state of high-alert (I mean, following all this anti-abortion controversy it's amusing to see how many leftists believe in the slippery slope all of a sudden :lol: ).



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17 May 2022, 3:34 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
slam_thunderhide wrote:
Quote:
Also, it's not uncommon in times of danger for people to sacrifice their lives for the lives of their children or their 'tribe'. And most people on some level understand why this is so.

Yes, people will sacrifice themselves for others and there are evolutionary mechanisms that explain it. I don't think that leads to "and so we should force people to carry embryos they don't want to".


Well, as I said previously, I am ambivalent about abortion. I am not as anti-abortion as Mikah for instance. However, I was taking issue with your reasoning about the issue. You seemed to be saying that in matters of morality, and life and death, we shouldn't pay any attention to what people are at the biological, genetic level; all we should pay attention to is their consciousness, i.e., the level of their conscious desire to go on living. I say that we should pay attention to both. If a person's consciousness was all that mattered, then we could take that argument to the extreme and say there is no moral case for trying to save someone who's lost consciousness in an accident; since if they're no longer conscious of 'wanting to live' we shouldn't worry about what happens to them.

The_Walrus wrote:
Quote:
Frankly, the fact that none of this seems to impact on your thinking says a lot to me about your value system.

Bit of an assumption.


To put this diplomatically, I would say that some people look at humanity and see individuals whose freedom should be maximized, while others see people as links in a chain connecting past and future, with all the responsibilities (and related fulfilment) that entails. You seem to be closer to the former extreme, whereas I am closer to the latter extreme.

The_Walrus wrote:
To be honest I don't place a huge amount of weight on gut feelings, although on a metaethical level I'm not sure there's a huge amount of difference between gut feelings and reasoned beliefs (we tend to come up with reasoning that supports our beliefs). But on a simple cognitive level, our feelings are often unhelpful because they're born out of an evolutionary context that doesn't really apply. The fight or flight response is an obvious example. If I feel something, I think it's healthier to examine that feeling and consider whether it is rational, rather than accepting that it is a deep moral truth.


Yes, it's true that we often come up with reasoning that supports our beliefs, but I don't see how you making that point supports your case. Your decision to focus on the individual and his conscious desires is just your preference/opinion/belief, just as my decision to focus on society as an organic whole is mine.



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23 May 2022, 8:10 pm

magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well why doesn't the company just put out a statement saying that then, to clear the air, rather than have people believe it is being hoarded, and possibly for illegal immigrants?
I think they did.


Oh I see. Well there is also another possibility to consider. This shortage of baby formula has seemed to happen right after this reversing Roe vs. Wade issue. Could the two be connected? I mean the democrats do not want Roe overturned so could they have caused the baby formula to be stalled as a response to those who are pro-life and want the formula more?

Or is that just coincidental timing, even though seems suspicious, timing wise?



auntblabby
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23 May 2022, 11:50 pm

in the words of freud, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."