Being good at at most social skills, with ASD.

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FranzOren
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09 May 2022, 7:19 pm

I got scared that I might have Antisocial Personality Disorder, because I still have some symptom of Conduct Disorder Unspecified, and with some of those traits, I developed some skills that I thought are NT social skills, but is actually bad characteristics. I am am 21 years old and still kept some traits of Conduct Disorder Unspecified.

I sometimes wonder if I have Antisocial Personality Disorder, but have empathy and remorse, and don't go around commiting some crimes that I did throughout my childhood, and the only difference is that I never got criminal records.

My symptoms throughout my childhood:

* Annoyed and chased animals for sick pleasure, but I started to feel so guilty for doing that, as I stopped doing that
* Sometimes broke some school rules, and get into fights
* A little bit impulsive when angry
* Always thought that I am right, and getting into arguments, most of my peers thought I was wired, because of that

I know that my symptoms of Conduct Disorder Unspecified did not present all the time, but it was pathological and that went on throughout my childhood.

Some symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder that I have:

* Charm (I use charm when I lie)
* Brainwashing (I don't do that, but I have that skill)
* Lying (I sometimes lie a lot, and people don't know that I lied, but I am more likely to be honest than most)
* Manipulation (I do that rarely though)

Those skills that I have is limited, because I have history of severe communication delay.

I feel guilty that I have those traits, but I wonder if it is possible for me to be a psychopath with empathy and remorse, and choosing to not commit crimes, but I still feel like I harm others by having those traits. I feel ashamed, I am sorry!



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10 May 2022, 1:02 am

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Annoyed and chased animals for sick pleasure


Um...I did that too. To my own cat. I never hurt her, but I would deliberately annoy her. But it was because she was so cute I didn't know what to do. I'm like that with cute animals. I feel like I want to squeeze them or bite them. I also liked hearing her meow. It's called "cute aggression", but being an impulsive child with ADHD I had it to an extreme I suppose.
But when I hear of people doing wicked things to animals, like blowing them up with fireworks or kicking them or dumping them somewhere, I get really upset and I would never do that myself.


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SkinnedWolf
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10 May 2022, 1:07 am

FranzOren wrote:
I feel guilty that I have those traits, but I wonder if it is possible for me to be a psychopath with empathy and remorse, and choosing to not commit crimes, but I still feel like I harm others by having those traits. I feel ashamed, I am sorry!

Your sense of unease has violated the definition of "psychopath".
It's worth considering NPD (especially vulnerable narcissism) or BPD, if that really bothers you. Both are often actually the result of trauma.

Another possibility is that you are in a state of depression with a "delusion of guilt," in which you exaggerate how harmful your acquired social skills are.


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FranzOren
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10 May 2022, 6:39 am

That makes sense.

This is complicated, because I don't know if I am delusional, and also because I looked at my IEP records, and cams into conclusion that I showed symptoms of Conduct Disorder Unspecified, and kept some of those traits as an adult, and some of those traits now looks like Antisocial Personality Disorder, and some things are missing is lack of empathy, remorse and criminal behavior. I try my best to make right legal decisions, and care for others, but some of those traits that I have can at least annoy people though.

My grandiosity is also related to Bipolar Disorder.

I thought people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder also lack empathy as a symptom, I wonder if some people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder can have empathy.



Last edited by FranzOren on 10 May 2022, 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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10 May 2022, 7:02 am

I thankfully haven't needed to overtly lie to people much because I've mostly been dealing with the status-checking games rather than probing.

I do have compartments in my life - some I can share with others, some are easier online (such as here) because there are very few people who will ever meet me face to face, at the same time there are contents of my life that are 'nobody's business' in face-to-face life, mainly because - lets face it - the NT world isn't about clearing up misunderstandings, misunderstandings are things you weaponize and leverage to extort people, make power-grabs on people you don't like, and since anything on the table is there to be weaponized for the gene war there's just a lot that I don't put on the table because I understand that the point of discussion isn't about life, living, learning new things, being human, and sharing what we've learned (you can find some of that with very selected company but for the most part no - it's about status poaching and mugging).


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FranzOren
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10 May 2022, 7:03 am

That makes sense.



Joe90
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10 May 2022, 7:51 am

funeralxempire wrote:
FranzOren wrote:
What do you mean more by that?

I think it is because we have more social skills than before, but it is nowhere near the same having all NT social skills.


I mean (likely due to ToM deficits) that I believed I was more successful at those things when in reality at least some of the time people understood I was being deceptive and just didn't bother to call me out or prove they had caught me.


I hate when people on the spectrum say that though. It may have been true for you but not for everyone. I don't like strangers online thinking they know more about me than I know my own self. Just because I'm on the spectrum it doesn't mean I'm oblivious to social cues and live in an imaginary world of believing I'm some social butterfly. I know my own instincts.


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10 May 2022, 7:59 am

Joe90 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
FranzOren wrote:
What do you mean more by that?
I think it is because we have more social skills than before, but it is nowhere near the same having all NT social skills.

I mean (likely due to ToM deficits) that I believed I was more successful at those things when in reality at least some of the time people understood I was being deceptive and just didn't bother to call me out or prove they had caught me.

I hate when people on the spectrum say that though. It may have been true for you but not for everyone. I don't like strangers online thinking they know more about me than I know my own self. Just because I'm on the spectrum it doesn't mean I'm oblivious to social cues and live in an imaginary world of believing I'm some social butterfly. I know my own instincts.

I think funeralxempire strictly limited his phrasing in this thread to ensure he only described his own experience as he understood it and not generalized any others on the spectrum.


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Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 10 May 2022, 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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10 May 2022, 8:23 am

FranzOren wrote:
I thought people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder also lack empathy as a symptom, I wonder if some people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder can have empathy.

Your description in this thread is similar to what I had in mind.

I think I have NPD, but I don't have the convenience to this diagnose. I think I have a lack of empathy.
I have some extremely morbid daydreams and reading/watching preferences, and I can never publicly discuss the details.
My intentional behavior had seriously hurt the feelings of certain people who trusted me. At least I thought that was serious.

But as of now, I have no illegal or criminal record.
I'm generally considered friendly but often don't consider other people's feelings or not easy to control indignation.
I don't think I have ASPD. I haven't received similar reviews either.

At least in my experience, the traits that you blame yourself for those are manageable.


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FranzOren
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10 May 2022, 11:11 am

Thank you! It makes sense.



Joe90
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10 May 2022, 11:22 am

Quote:
I think the funeral home strictly limited his phrasing in this thread to ensure he only described his own experience as he understood it and not generalized any others on the spectrum.


I know, it's just sometimes when people give their own experience in this sort of context they can sometimes imply that the same applies to others. I just thought I'd point it out before anyone says that I'm unaware of my actions or that I lack certain social instincts.


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FranzOren
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10 May 2022, 11:48 am

That does make sense, it is frustrating when they talk about people with ASD as if they are all the same. It can be misunderstanding, you can ask that person if he or she really meant that.



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10 May 2022, 12:04 pm

Based on the recurring keywords, I think Funralxempire is responding to the OP and not Joe90's post.
Because the OP is clearly distressed by what he considers "harmful social skills". Funeralxempire used his own experience as a reference to point out a possibility to alleviate this self-blame.

Certainly, he himself may have a better explanation for it.


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FranzOren
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10 May 2022, 2:05 pm

I definitely agree.

I read my IEP records and found out that I have history of showing Conduct Disorder Unspecified, and still have some of those traits, but it looks like Antisocial Personality Disorder, but with empathy and remorse.



funeralxempire
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10 May 2022, 2:58 pm

Joe90 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
FranzOren wrote:
What do you mean more by that?

I think it is because we have more social skills than before, but it is nowhere near the same having all NT social skills.


I mean (likely due to ToM deficits) that I believed I was more successful at those things when in reality at least some of the time people understood I was being deceptive and just didn't bother to call me out or prove they had caught me.


I hate when people on the spectrum say that though. It may have been true for you but not for everyone. I don't like strangers online thinking they know more about me than I know my own self. Just because I'm on the spectrum it doesn't mean I'm oblivious to social cues and live in an imaginary world of believing I'm some social butterfly. I know my own instincts.


I didn't claim to speak for anyone else's experience though and certainly not yours.

I've never had any delusions of being a social butterfly but there's absolutely been situations where I mistook being tolerated for being liked and others where I mistook indifference or lack of understanding/sympathy for hostility. I often over-estimated how much I was noticed, both in positive and negative ways. There were (more) off-putting aspects to my personality that I thought I could just 'own' better than was true and there were traits I masked more heavily than I probably needed to. Further one of the closest friends I had at that age was pretty consistently antisocial which wasn't exactly the best person to model one's social skills on, especially given that him and I have different talent sets, so to speak.

Stuff that like contributed to some pretty significant paranoid traits that only really resolved around when I was diagnosed with ASD. Most just on their own too, I was familiar with a handful of autistics we'd rather not associate too much with the condition and recognized those traits were the same pattern I was showing, just probably on a much smaller scale in my case.

In that regard the only place you might be similar to younger me is a tendency to overestimate how many people dislike you compared to not caring or noticing at all. Obviously I don't know if you actually do that, but I feel like you're probably not disliked quite as much as you sometimes feel because you're very likeable. That could also be a ToM failure on my part because I'm personally fond of you and might struggle to imagine that others wouldn't feel the same. :nerdy:


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FranzOren
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10 May 2022, 3:00 pm

It does make sense.