is beauty in the eye of the beholder ?

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LePetitPrince
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21 Aug 2007, 12:44 pm

Babies are the most honest creatures and they can tell us a lot about our extincts :

http://sci-con.org/2005/09/baby-study-s ... e-beholder

Quote:
“I didn’t for one moment believe we’d get these kinds of results from newborns. I was convinced it was a learned process. Our research shows that perception of beauty is something genetic rather than socially constructed.”

Slater and eight researchers showed photos of white female models and non-models to babies for up to five minutes.

They studied nearly 100 babies up to the age of three days and found a significant difference in the time babies looked at attractive and unatt-ractive photographs.

“They would spend 60-65% of the time looking at the attractive face,” Slater said.



Quote:
Slater said: “You could say that beauty is in the eye of beholder to some extent, but there is some kind of external standard against which we judge people to be beautiful. This judgement appears to be part of a genetic inheritance.”


Are babies also influenced by the media ?? HA!



Deus_ex_machina
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23 Aug 2007, 10:55 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
Babies are the most honest creatures and they can tell us a lot about our extincts :

http://sci-con.org/2005/09/baby-study-s ... e-beholder

Quote:
“I didn’t for one moment believe we’d get these kinds of results from newborns. I was convinced it was a learned process. Our research shows that perception of beauty is something genetic rather than socially constructed.”

Slater and eight researchers showed photos of white female models and non-models to babies for up to five minutes.

They studied nearly 100 babies up to the age of three days and found a significant difference in the time babies looked at attractive and unatt-ractive photographs.

“They would spend 60-65% of the time looking at the attractive face,” Slater said.



Quote:
Slater said: “You could say that beauty is in the eye of beholder to some extent, but there is some kind of external standard against which we judge people to be beautiful. This judgement appears to be part of a genetic inheritance.”


Are babies also influenced by the media ?? HA!


No but the scientists are, they decided what would be shown to the babies.

Also for the babies it's likely more about survival, who most likely has the most milk, which has nothing to do with what an adult sees as attractive.

Any other pointless information you'd like to share? I don't know if I'll bother to continue responding or even looking at this Thread if this keeps up.


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LePetitPrince
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24 Aug 2007, 2:23 pm

^^ I posted a scientific study that supports my point so why you don't counter it with something similar instead of replying with something lame such 'the scientists are' ? if you are bothered then don't reply .



samtoo
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24 Aug 2007, 6:14 pm

Il ove you all and I'd date yo uall :) Man or woman. I'm drunk I'm afraid... sorry. :( but I love you all man. *biiiiiiiiig huuuuuuuug* :D


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calandale
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25 Aug 2007, 9:36 pm

samtoo wrote:
Il ove you all and I'd date yo uall :) Man or woman. I'm drunk I'm afraid... sorry. :( but I love you all man. *biiiiiiiiig huuuuuuuug* :D


Hooray for alcohol! *kiss*



Deus_ex_machina
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27 Aug 2007, 8:23 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
^^ I posted a scientific study that supports my point so why you don't counter it with something similar instead of replying with something lame such 'the scientists are' ? if you are bothered then don't reply .


And? That article isn't the last word, if I were to present you with data where would that leave us? My information could be incorrect or your's could be or both could be. So you can stop acting like this is a pissing contest where we compare knowledge, or logic, or whatever it is the the hell kind of boring game you're playing.

Hey here's a thought, maybe you could tell me why you posted that useless picture of the Hunchback and then didn't bother to respond? Either that or you could conveniently ignore this part of my post. Then I can throw some scientific articles in your face regardless of whether or not there's holes in my thinking which have been pointed out and ignored and act condesending because it's such an argument winning sidestep! But no, I'm not bothered, how could I be when such a riveting subject is at hand?


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27 Aug 2007, 8:30 am

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, it is.

BUT, the eyes are shaded by what goggles society places there.

Some are wise enough to see past those.

Some are not. Some never even think about it and are happy to be led.

Just look at differing standards throughout the ages. At some times and in some cultures, fat is the ideal. Others, thin is in. Some societies love a giraffe neck. Others, a gap in the teeth. Others, very pale skin. It goes on and on.

Attraction triggers are complex and mostly subliminal and subconscious. If you stop and think about it you may be able to figure the origin of yours but maybe not.



Deus_ex_machina
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27 Aug 2007, 10:26 am

Popsicle wrote:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, it is.

BUT, the eyes are shaded by what goggles society places there.

Some are wise enough to see past those.

Some are not. Some never even think about it and are happy to be led.

Just look at differing standards throughout the ages. At some times and in some cultures, fat is the ideal. Others, thin is in. Some societies love a giraffe neck. Others, a gap in the teeth. Others, very pale skin. It goes on and on.

Attraction triggers are complex and mostly subliminal and subconscious. If you stop and think about it you may be able to figure the origin of yours but maybe not.


Yup. :)


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LePetitPrince
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27 Aug 2007, 2:21 pm

Well , whether our view on beauty is affected by media or by genetics or both , the 'beholder' still represents the vast majority of the NT society and 'unified' .

The result is the same in the 3 possibilities .



The_New_Writer
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27 Aug 2007, 6:31 pm

To tell the truth it is to some extent. Who can say what we think is beautiful but the media or the mind. But media is much more influencial than our mind is unfortunately. So most girls spend time envying that pretty face while the boys spend time drooling at it and vying to make a pretty face like that theirs, when all it will do is give them a pretty girl as empty and cold as a flower pot. After all, looks are decieving.


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Deus_ex_machina
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29 Aug 2007, 3:13 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
Well , whether our view on beauty is affected by media or by genetics or both , the 'beholder' still represents the vast majority of the NT society and 'unified' .

The result is the same in the 3 possibilities .


Oh really? Because it seems to me that you've been making the argument for most of the Topic that genetics is the cause, and that what other people think doesn't enter into it, now it seems like you're grudgingly accepting the idea that it has some influence so your don't lose face, but at the same time twisting what is said.

It looks like you don't want to consider what other people have been saying, so why are you still here? You just keep regurgitating "evidence" like some fundie who's discovered somebody in a position of authority who happens to agree with what he thinks.


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LePetitPrince
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29 Aug 2007, 6:55 am

Deus_ex_machina wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Well , whether our view on beauty is affected by media or by genetics or both , the 'beholder' still represents the vast majority of the NT society and 'unified' .

The result is the same in the 3 possibilities .


Oh really? Because it seems to me that you've been making the argument for most of the Topic that genetics is the cause, and that what other people think doesn't enter into it, now it seems like you're grudgingly accepting the idea that it has some influence so your don't lose face, but at the same time twisting what is said.

It looks like you don't want to consider what other people have been saying, so why are you still here? You just keep regurgitating "evidence" like some fundie who's discovered somebody in a position of authority who happens to agree with what he thinks.


i didn't say the media affect our taste on looks , I said : "whether our view on beauty is affected by media or by genetics or both , the 'beholder' still represents the vast majority of the NT society and 'unified' ." .

I still think that our taste on beauty is affected by genetics mostly , now i don't know why ppl in middle age were attracted to fat ppl , maybe it was because a age of poverty and so overweight was a sign of good fertility then ?? well I dunno , but I saw the statue of godness of beauty "Achtarout" of Phoenicia here in Lebanon and she looks like a modern model-like ( slim , tall , long hair , symmetric face ...) so it seems that the standards of beauty 5000 years ago BC of this civilization , note also that Queen Nafartiti and Cleopatra in the ancient egypt were not fat but they were slim and curvy and they were beauty idols according at that time .

As for media , i don't believe that Media 'creates' new instincts and new tastes about beauty ...but media searches , make surveys to know the mainstream taste in the society and try trigger it and to boost it , I worked in marketing before and I Know .
It is possible to create a new value about a product or a service but it is quasi-impossible to change the taste of ppl , specially when it comes to beauty (and not only about the beauty of women but of everything) is quasi-impossible.

The media won't make ads using models if the guys in the society are not crazy about models , if their surveys show that most are attracted to obese women then they ll use obese women in the ads but surveys show otherwise.

Most guys in the world would admit that anjelina jolie and Bred pit are beautiful while very very few would say that woody allen is handsome (even tho he dates the most beautiful actresses but even him admitted that he never been able to date any1 before his fame)


If you watch "beauty science" in Discovery channel you ll see that our view on beauty is affected by genetics and hormones mostly , you ll be amazed of the accuracy of their studies , you can deny my posts but you can't deny science sir .


Besides , I don't know why you are so bothered or you even sound be offended by my posts and by my links . You started attacking me by saying that i am posting useless info . This is my thread so it 's none of your business if i keep posting on them whether they are useful info or not as long that i am not spamming or insulting anyone . You can just ignore my posts if you are so bothered , so ignore instead of nagging .

Or.....are you in love with a quasimdo-like girl and can't admit it ? :lol:



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29 Aug 2007, 7:49 am

Science isn't alway PC



Deus_ex_machina
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30 Aug 2007, 12:09 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Deus_ex_machina wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Well , whether our view on beauty is affected by media or by genetics or both , the 'beholder' still represents the vast majority of the NT society and 'unified' .

The result is the same in the 3 possibilities .


Oh really? Because it seems to me that you've been making the argument for most of the Topic that genetics is the cause, and that what other people think doesn't enter into it, now it seems like you're grudgingly accepting the idea that it has some influence so your don't lose face, but at the same time twisting what is said.

It looks like you don't want to consider what other people have been saying, so why are you still here? You just keep regurgitating "evidence" like some fundie who's discovered somebody in a position of authority who happens to agree with what he thinks.


i didn't say the media affect our taste on looks , I said : "whether our view on beauty is affected by media or by genetics or both , the 'beholder' still represents the vast majority of the NT society and 'unified' ." .

I still think that our taste on beauty is affected by genetics mostly , now i don't know why ppl in middle age were attracted to fat ppl , maybe it was because a age of poverty and so overweight was a sign of good fertility then ?? well I dunno , but I saw the statue of godness of beauty "Achtarout" of Phoenicia here in Lebanon and she looks like a modern model-like ( slim , tall , long hair , symmetric face ...) so it seems that the standards of beauty 5000 years ago BC of this civilization , note also that Queen Nafartiti and Cleopatra in the ancient egypt were not fat but they were slim and curvy and they were beauty idols according at that time .

As for media , i don't believe that Media 'creates' new instincts and new tastes about beauty ...but media searches , make surveys to know the mainstream taste in the society and try trigger it and to boost it , I worked in marketing before and I Know .
It is possible to create a new value about a product or a service but it is quasi-impossible to change the taste of ppl , specially when it comes to beauty (and not only about the beauty of women but of everything) is quasi-impossible.

The media won't make ads using models if the guys in the society are not crazy about models , if their surveys show that most are attracted to obese women then they ll use obese women in the ads but surveys show otherwise.

Most guys in the world would admit that anjelina jolie and Bred pit are beautiful while very very few would say that woody allen is handsome (even tho he dates the most beautiful actresses but even him admitted that he never been able to date any1 before his fame)


If you watch "beauty science" in Discovery channel you ll see that our view on beauty is affected by genetics and hormones mostly , you ll be amazed of the accuracy of their studies , you can deny my posts but you can't deny science sir .


Besides , I don't know why you are so bothered or you even sound be offended by my posts and by my links . You started attacking me by saying that i am posting useless info . This is my thread so it 's none of your business if i keep posting on them whether they are useful info or not as long that i am not spamming or insulting anyone . You can just ignore my posts if you are so bothered , so ignore instead of nagging .

Or.....are you in love with a quasimdo-like girl and can't admit it ? :lol:


My point was that you seemed to have changed tactics.

Well I can't respond to most of this because the way you've structured your sentences is horrible, most of it makes no sense at all and you seem to rant on and talk about things completely unrelated to anything I said. Not only that but you keep resorting to the same old bullshit, trying to use what the majority thinks as proof. Scientists do not consider what they say as facts and are open to the idea that new facts could come out at any moment, they also do not rely on what the masses think, you do, and I'm sick of it, that's why I'm so angry. It pisses me off when somebody can't face up to reality or uses fallacies to try to win an argument, acting like it's the truth. And now you're attcking me, I only ever attacked the way you form arguments and now you're trying to raise doubts about what, my sex life? You're just proving to me that I'm right to be bitching at you, using crap like that.

Here's my advice, and yes I know I'm harsh, I don't care, learn english, learn to argue (Properly), and start thinking before posting. Hopefully you'll make more sense, less mistakes, and you'll see the holes in what you're saying. Remember, I'm not attacking you for your views, if you want to come at me with personal attacks, assuming things about me or my personal life, don't bother, you'll just make it worse for yourself than it already is. And I'll care even less about your opinion. Got it?


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"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat." - Terry Bisson


LePetitPrince
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04 Sep 2007, 5:05 pm

Deus_ex_machina wrote:
Here's my advice, and yes I know I'm harsh, I don't care, learn english, learn to argue (Properly), and start thinking before posting. Hopefully you'll make more sense, less mistakes, and you'll see the holes in what you're saying. Remember, I'm not attacking you for your views, if you want to come at me with personal attacks, assuming things about me or my personal life, don't bother, you'll just make it worse for yourself than it already is. And I'll care even less about your opinion. Got it?


Do you know how to speak/write Arabic or French or Persian you Mr. Australian ? If yes , then you can give me lectures about improving my English ,I am not a native English speaker in case you didn't notice and I only started learning English in complementary school for 2 hours per week . All the other courses were either in French or Arabic . So try to be like me before criticizing me .

Besides , about the beauty thing . It's ok if you love someone who's less attractive than the norm because of the other good traits she possesses . For example , you might love an ugly or fat girl for her smartness but deep inside you know that she's ugly and much less attractive than slim and pretty girls . I myself less attractive than the norm too but that doesn't change the fact that physical attractiveness (beauty) is very objective and much more related to instincts than media , for example I am 5'3'' and so many girls rejected me because I am too short ("I prefer a taller guy than me " , I prefer taller....) .

If really beauty is in the eye of the beholder then how you can explain that less than 1% of husbands in the world are shorter than their wives ??? and surely this weak percentage is not due to the fact that men are averagely usually taller than women because there are a lot of women who are taller than a lot of men ... but it's rather due to the fact that 99% of women are usually not attracted to shorter men.

As I said if you look around you find out that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder ' is no more than a bullshit saying to make less attractive ppl to feel better .

As Chav said , science is not alway politically correct ...so sometimes science says things that you don't like to hear .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_attractiveness

PS : the link is not for you but for other users since you would probably see it as 'useless piece of information' .