trump supporters - your reactions to the J6 hearings ?

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funeralxempire
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23 Jul 2022, 3:26 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Everyone is a bully who stands up for themselves and calls out BS and holds people accountable. People just want to say whatever they want and be free of criticism and consequences or else we're all bullies.


I think my mistake was not waddling off to The Haven to beg for sympathy enough; then I could play the victim while glossing over what it was that got me torn a new one. Just repeat until finally I've got an enraged mob on my side that's disinterested in the origins of the conflict and wait until Alex feels obliged to sort through the BS.


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23 Jul 2022, 3:39 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
You'll bask in the warm and fuzzy memories of Trump when a DeSantis or a Pence type comes around. :wink:


People are more focused on the symptom rather than the disease.


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funeralxempire
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23 Jul 2022, 3:50 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
You'll bask in the warm and fuzzy memories of Trump when a DeSantis or a Pence type comes around. :wink:


People are more focused on the symptom rather than the disease.


How do you address the disease when so many people are anti-immune system? :scratch:

Also, I wouldn't rule out that a DeSantis might represent a breaking point and all the beer-bellied reactionaries thinking that breaking point will go in their favour should read a little bit about what happened in Russia about a century ago.

They'll miss liberals as their opponents when they're in a reeducation camp ran by tankies and they're stuck sitting next to the pinkos they ought to have listened to.


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23 Jul 2022, 4:45 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
I truly believe that supporters of the Trump takeover either aren't aware of or don't believe the claims about the full extent of what he's been doing. They are steadfastly staying away from the January 6th hearings, and their news is encouraging them to not look.


RetroGamer87 wrote:
This thread was started a month ago and in all that time only two people here have admitted to being Trump supporters? I guess they're not as brave as they thought.


goldfish21 wrote:
Maybe they're embarrassed or ashamed at the realization that they've been conned by the orange former guy? Or maybe they're still processing the cognitive dissonance resulting from that realization ?


I can't speak for Trump supporters, I'm not even American, but I'll go out on a limb. The mindset of Trumpers is very well summed up by this twitter thread, posted on WP back in July: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=398501

Copied here:
I think I’ve had discussions w/enough Boomer-tier Trump supporters who believe the 2020 election was fraudulent to extract a general theory about their perspective. It is also the perspective of most of the people at the Capitol on 1/6, and probably even Trump himself.

Most believe some or all of the theories involving midnight ballots, voting machines, etc, but what you find when you talk to them is that, while they’ll defend those positions w/info they got from Hannity or Breitbart or whatever, they’re not particularly attached to them.

Here are the facts – actual, confirmed facts – that shape their perspective: 1) The FBI/etc spied on the 2016 Trump campaign using evidence manufactured by the Clinton campaign. We now know that all involved knew it was fake from Day 1 (see: Brennan’s July 2016 memo, etc).

These are Tea Party people. The types who give their kids a pocket Constitution for their birthday and have Founding Fathers memes in their bios. The intel community spying on a presidential campaign using fake evidence (incl forged documents) is a big deal to them.

Everyone involved lied about their involvement as long as they could. We only learned the DNC paid for the manufactured evidence because of a court order. Comey denied on TV knowing the DNC paid for it, when we have emails from a year earlier proving that he knew.

This was true with everyone, from CIA Dir Brennan & Adam Schiff – who were on TV saying they’d seen clear evidence of collusion w/Russia, while admitting under oath behind closed doors that they hadn’t – all the way down the line. In the end we learned that it was ALL fake.

At first, many Trump ppl were worried there must be some collusion, because every media & intel agency wouldn’t make it up out of nothing. When it was clear that they had made it up, people expected a reckoning, and shed many illusions about their gov’t when it didn’t happen.

We know as fact: a) The Steele dossier was the sole evidence used to justify spying on the Trump campaign, b) The FBI knew the Steele dossier was a DNC op, c) Steele’s source told the FBI the info was unserious, d) they did not inform the court of any of this and kept spying.

Trump supporters know the collusion case front and back. They went from worrying the collusion must be real, to suspecting it might be fake, to realizing it was a scam, then watched as every institution – agencies, the press, Congress, academia – gaslit them for another year.

Worse, collusion was used to scare people away from working in the administration. They knew their entire lives would be investigated. Many quit because they were being bankrupted by legal fees. The DoJ, press, & gov’t destroyed lives and actively subverted an elected admin.

This is where people whose political identity was largely defined by a naive belief in what they learned in Civics class began to see the outline of a Regime that crossed all institutional boundaries. Because it had stepped out of the shadows to unite against an interloper.

GOP propaganda still has many of them thinking in terms of partisan binaries, but A LOT of Trump supporters see that the Regime is not partisan. They all know that the same institutions would have taken opposite sides if it was a Tulsi Gabbard vs Jeb Bush election.

It’s hard to describe to people on the left (who are used to thinking of gov’t as a conspiracy… Watergate, COINTELPRO, WMD, etc) how shocking & disillusioning this was for people who encourage their sons to enlist in the Army, and hate ppl who don’t stand for the Anthem.

They could have managed the shock if it only involved the government. But the behavior of the corporate press is really what radicalized them. They hate journalists more than they hate any politician or gov’t official, because they feel most betrayed by them.

The idea that the press is driven by ratings/sensationalism became untenable. If that were true, they’d be all over the Epstein story. The corporate press is the propaganda arm of the Regime they now see in outline. Nothing anyone says will ever make them unsee that, period.

This is profoundly disorienting. Many of them don’t know for certain whether ballots were faked in November 2020, but they know for absolute certain that the press, the FBI, etc would lie to them if there was. They have every reason to believe that, and it’s probably true.

They watched the press behave like animals for four years. Tens of millions of people will always see Kavanaugh as a gang rapist, based on nothing, because of CNN. And CNN seems proud of that. They led a lynch mob against a high school kid. They cheered on a summer of riots.

They always claimed the media had liberal bias, fine, whatever. They still thought the press would admit truth if they were cornered. Now they don’t. It’s a different thing to watch them invent stories whole cloth in order to destroy regular lives and spark mass violence.

Time Mag told us that during the 2020 riots, there were weekly conference calls involving, among others, leaders of the protests, the local officials who refused to stop them, and media people who framed them for political effect. In Ukraine we call that a color revolution.

Throughout the summer, Democrat governors took advantage of COVID to change voting procedures. It wasn’t just the mail-ins (they lowered signature matching standards, etc). After the collusion scam, the fake impeachment, Trump ppl expected shenanigans by now.

Re: “fake impeachment”, we now know that Trump’s request for Ukraine to cooperate w/the DOJ regarding Biden’s $ activities in Ukraine was in support of an active investigation being pursued by the FBI and Ukraine AG at the time, and so a completely legitimate request.

Then you get the Hunter laptop scandal. Big Tech ran a full-on censorship campaign against a major newspaper to protect a political candidate. Period. Everyone knows it, all of the Tech companies now admit it was a “mistake” – but, ya know, the election’s over, so who cares?

Goes w/o saying, but: If the NY Times had Don Jr’s laptop, full of pics of him smoking crack and engaging in group sex, lots of lurid family drama, emails describing direct corruption and backed up by the CEO of the company they were using, the NYT wouldn’t have been banned.

Think back: Stories about Trump being pissed on by Russian prostitutes and blackmailed by Putin were promoted as fact, and the only evidence was a document paid for by his opposition and disavowed by its source. The NY Post was banned for reporting on true information.

The reaction of Trump ppl to all this was not, “no fair!” That’s how they felt about Romney’s “binders of women” in 2012. This is different. Now they see, correctly, that every institution is captured by ppl who will use any means to exclude them from the political process.

And yet they showed up in record numbers to vote. He got 13m more votes than in 2016, 10m more than Clinton got! As election night dragged on, they allowed themselves some hope. But when the four critical swing states (and only those states) went dark at midnight, they knew.

Over the ensuing weeks, they got shuffled around by grifters and media scam artists selling them conspiracy theories. They latched onto one, then another increasingly absurd theory as they tried to put a concrete name on something very real.

Media & Tech did everything to make things worse. Everything about the election was strange – the changes to procedure, unprecedented mail-in voting, the delays, etc – but rather than admit that and make everything transparent, they banned discussion of it (even in DMs!).

Everyone knows that, just as Don Jr’s laptop would’ve been the story of the century, if everything about the election dispute was the same, except the parties were reversed, suspicions about the outcome would’ve been Taken Very Seriously. See 2016 for proof.

Even the courts’ refusal of the case gets nowhere w/them, because of how the opposition embraced mass political violence. They’ll say, w/good reason: What judge will stick his neck out for Trump knowing he’ll be destroyed in the media as a violent mob burns down his house?

It’s a fact, according to Time Magazine, that mass riots were planned in cities across the country if Trump won. Sure, they were “protests”, but they were planned by the same people as during the summer, and everyone knows what it would have meant. Judges have families, too.

Forget the ballot conspiracies. It’s a fact that governors used COVID to unconstitutionally alter election procedures (the Constitution states that only legislatures can do so) to help Biden to make up for a massive enthusiasm gap by gaming the mail-in ballot system.

They knew it was unconstitutional, it’s right there in plain English. But they knew the cases wouldn’t see court until after the election. And what judge will toss millions of ballots because a governor broke the rules? The threat of mass riots wasn’t implied, it was direct.

a) The entrenched bureaucracy & security state subverted Trump from Day 1, b) The press is part of the operation, c) Election rules were changed, d) Big Tech censors opposition, e) Political violence is legitimized & encouraged, f) Trump is banned from social media.

They were led down some rabbit holes, but they are absolutely right that their gov’t is monopolized by a Regime that believes they are beneath representation, and will observe no limits to keep them getting it. Trump fans should be happy he lost; it might’ve kept him alive.


They are, rightly, completely disillusioned with the entire thing. Government, elections, courts, the fourth estate, it's all a rancid puddle of piss to them now. They trust nothing except their families, their neighbours and their guns. Having lost faith in any institution, many are just enjoying the decline and fall of Western civilisation, the optimistic ones perhaps daydreaming about the boogaloo that never comes.

What is there really to get upset about regarding January 6th? Of course they are blowing up a half baked angry protest into an "insurrection" best personified by a half naked guy wearing horns and body paint. Of course the media are colluding and lying with every breath. It's just business as usual in the twitching corpse that is the western world. Who cares what is being said about the people involved on that day or what Trump was doing? These are the same people who knowingly promoted false stories about Trump getting pissed on by prostitutes and Trump colluding with foreign powers and tried to get him impeached on these now proven lies. The Jan 6th BS operation is not even close to the worst thing the American establishment has done since 2016.

For those puzzled as to why Trump supporters don't seem particularly interested in discussing it with people happy to believe what they are told by CNN, the Democrats and the anti-Trump Republicans... what is there really to say? The first question you would be asked about Jan 6th is: given what they've been caught doing in recent years, why do you believe anything they say?


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23 Jul 2022, 5:42 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
You'll bask in the warm and fuzzy memories of Trump when a DeSantis or a Pence type comes around. :wink:


People are more focused on the symptom rather than the disease.


How do you address the disease when so many people are anti-immune system? :scratch:

Also, I wouldn't rule out that a DeSantis might represent a breaking point and all the beer-bellied reactionaries thinking that breaking point will go in their favour should read a little bit about what happened in Russia about a century ago.

They'll miss liberals as their opponents when they're in a reeducation camp ran by tankies and they're stuck sitting next to the pinkos they ought to have listened to.


Forty years of neoliberal politics is the disease. Continued voting for politicians like Biden, Obama, Bush, etc. Is feeding the disease. I can't put it in any simpler terms.


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23 Jul 2022, 6:07 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
You'll bask in the warm and fuzzy memories of Trump when a DeSantis or a Pence type comes around. :wink:


People are more focused on the symptom rather than the disease.


How do you address the disease when so many people are anti-immune system? :scratch:

Also, I wouldn't rule out that a DeSantis might represent a breaking point and all the beer-bellied reactionaries thinking that breaking point will go in their favour should read a little bit about what happened in Russia about a century ago.

They'll miss liberals as their opponents when they're in a reeducation camp ran by tankies and they're stuck sitting next to the pinkos they ought to have listened to.


Forty years of neoliberal politics is the disease. Continued voting for politicians like Biden, Obama, Bush, etc. Is feeding the disease. I can't put it in any simpler terms.

They *** thought *** Bush was bad. I remember when they said he was a Sith Lord and his administration was comparable to the Third Reich.
:lol: :lmao: :lmao:


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funeralxempire
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23 Jul 2022, 6:11 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
You'll bask in the warm and fuzzy memories of Trump when a DeSantis or a Pence type comes around. :wink:


People are more focused on the symptom rather than the disease.


How do you address the disease when so many people are anti-immune system? :scratch:

Also, I wouldn't rule out that a DeSantis might represent a breaking point and all the beer-bellied reactionaries thinking that breaking point will go in their favour should read a little bit about what happened in Russia about a century ago.

They'll miss liberals as their opponents when they're in a reeducation camp ran by tankies and they're stuck sitting next to the pinkos they ought to have listened to.


Forty years of neoliberal politics is the disease. Continued voting for politicians like Biden, Obama, Bush, etc. Is feeding the disease. I can't put it in any simpler terms.


I agree with your assessment of the cause, but they're punching themselves in the crotch to deal with a headache. Your assessment of the situation doesn't address why unless I'm also supposed to conclude that they're useless idiots who at best will become useful idiots in someone's plots. That explains the why quite concisely.


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23 Jul 2022, 6:48 pm

Mikah wrote:
I think I’ve had discussions w/enough Boomer-tier Trump supporters who believe the 2020 election was fraudulent to extract a general theory about their perspective. It is also the perspective of most of the people at the Capitol on 1/6, and probably even Trump himself.
etc.

Wow. Russiagate, the Steele Dossier, Burisma, even Hunter Biden's laptop. Claiming that the FBI takes orders from the DNC. This has to be the best overview of every conspiracy theory that has gained believers over the last 10 years.


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23 Jul 2022, 8:49 pm

Raptor wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
You'll bask in the warm and fuzzy memories of Trump when a DeSantis or a Pence type comes around. :wink:


People are more focused on the symptom rather than the disease.


How do you address the disease when so many people are anti-immune system? :scratch:

Also, I wouldn't rule out that a DeSantis might represent a breaking point and all the beer-bellied reactionaries thinking that breaking point will go in their favour should read a little bit about what happened in Russia about a century ago.

They'll miss liberals as their opponents when they're in a reeducation camp ran by tankies and they're stuck sitting next to the pinkos they ought to have listened to.


Forty years of neoliberal politics is the disease. Continued voting for politicians like Biden, Obama, Bush, etc. Is feeding the disease. I can't put it in any simpler terms.

They *** thought *** Bush was bad. I remember when they said he was a Sith Lord and his administration was comparable to the Third Reich.
:lol: :lmao: :lmao:

Who are you we to argue with the creator himself?


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23 Jul 2022, 11:21 pm

Murdoch's New York Post dumps Trump, calling him "unworthy to be chief executive again"

Quote:
One of Donald Trump's favorite newspapers — controlled by his media ally Rupert Murdoch — says Trump is "unworthy to be this country's chief executive again."

Those words, in this weekend's New York Post, may be the tabloid's strongest critique of Trump yet.

It was published online on Friday evening, around the same time another Murdoch publication, the Wall Street Journal, also published an editorial harshly critiquing the former president.

The Journal called him "The President Who Stood Still on Jan. 6" and praised Vice President Mike Pence. "Character is revealed in a crisis, and Mr. Pence passed his Jan. 6 trial. Mr. Trump utterly failed his," the Journal editorial stated.

Both newspapers have been noticeably more critical of Trump than Murdoch's biggest megaphone of all, the Fox News Channel, though close viewers have also picked up on some signs that Fox might be souring on Trump.

The right-wing network does not show his rallies any longer, for example. Potential 2024 presidential candidate Ron DeSantis, the Florida governor, was a featured guest on Fox while Trump held a rally on Friday night.

Both the Post and Journal have conservative editorial boards that are thought to reflect Murdoch's views. Murdoch said last fall that conservatives must play an active role in the American political debate, "but that will not happen if President Trump stays focused on the past."

If Murdoch was trying to give Trump advice, it didn't work. Trump has continued to spread lies about the 2020 election and undermine the House's investigation into the January 6 insurrection.

After the House committee's first prime time hearing last month, the Journal's editorial board said the evidence was a reminder that "Trump betrayed his supporters."

While the editorial writers have remained skeptical of the House committee and critical of the lack of witness cross-examination, they wrote the following on Friday, after the second prime time hearing: "No matter your views of the Jan. 6 special committee, the facts it is laying out in hearings are sobering. The most horrifying to date came Thursday in a hearing on President Trump's conduct as the riot raged and he sat watching TV, posting inflammatory tweets and refusing to send help."

Instead of making excuses or changing the subject, as some conservative commentators have done, the Journal's editorial said Trump "failed" to do his duty as commander in chief.

The Post's editorial page, which wrote last month that "we need a fresh start" with "a new crop of conservatives," went further in its editorial after Thursday's prime time hearing.

"It's up to the Justice Department to decide if this is a crime," the Post said. "But as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, Trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country's chief executive again."


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24 Jul 2022, 1:32 pm

MaxE wrote:
Mikah wrote:
I think I’ve had discussions w/enough Boomer-tier Trump supporters who believe the 2020 election was fraudulent to extract a general theory about their perspective. It is also the perspective of most of the people at the Capitol on 1/6, and probably even Trump himself.
etc.

Wow. Russiagate, the Steele Dossier, Burisma, even Hunter Biden's laptop. Claiming that the FBI takes orders from the DNC. This has to be the best overview of every conspiracy theory that has gained believers over the last 10 years.


Yep. I read that whole post, too. Seems there are a bunch of people who firmly believe half truths and whole lies so there's no breaking through to them and having them learn they've been conned by the donald. Cult leader/follower vibes for sure.


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24 Jul 2022, 1:46 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Mikah wrote:
I think I’ve had discussions w/enough Boomer-tier Trump supporters who believe the 2020 election was fraudulent to extract a general theory about their perspective. It is also the perspective of most of the people at the Capitol on 1/6, and probably even Trump himself.
etc.

Wow. Russiagate, the Steele Dossier, Burisma, even Hunter Biden's laptop. Claiming that the FBI takes orders from the DNC. This has to be the best overview of every conspiracy theory that has gained believers over the last 10 years.


Yep. I read that whole post, too. Seems there are a bunch of people who firmly believe half truths and whole lies so there's no breaking through to them and having them learn they've been conned by the donald. Cult leader/follower vibes for sure.


That's equally true of your side of the political aisle as well.

Anybody who is a partisan in our current political climate is a member of a cult.


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24 Jul 2022, 2:04 pm

Perhaps partially true, but certainly not equally true.


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24 Jul 2022, 2:34 pm

Trump is one of those people who speaks with conviction but doesn't realize or understand what he is saying or why he is saying it. He is also old fashioned and racist (I believe he didn't rent out to black people). Trump is only popular because people argue against him with such intensity that people want to back him up that much more.