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Roe v. Wade is history

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TwilightPrincess
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29 Jun 2022, 9:18 am

ironpony wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
The 4th amendment prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and with search warrents and how they are issued. Warrents are issued by a judge and must have probable cause. You can see this played out on various crime shows, like Law and Order. These procedures should be followed when enforcing state laws. Each state can make it's own laws as long as they do not violate the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.


Oh okay. But how much prior evidence would be needed bare minimum, to get a warrant to search a woman's uterus area for further evidence though?


We’re talking about sexual assault here since such a search would most likely be against a woman’s will.


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IsabellaLinton
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29 Jun 2022, 9:21 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
ironpony wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
The 4th amendment prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and with search warrents and how they are issued. Warrents are issued by a judge and must have probable cause. You can see this played out on various crime shows, like Law and Order. These procedures should be followed when enforcing state laws. Each state can make it's own laws as long as they do not violate the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.


Oh okay. But how much prior evidence would be needed bare minimum, to get a warrant to search a woman's uterus area for further evidence though?


We’re talking about sexual assault here since such a search warrant would be against a woman’s will.


At this point it seems evident he's trolling for kicks, even though his comments often demean women.


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ironpony
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29 Jun 2022, 9:30 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
ironpony wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
The 4th amendment prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and with search warrents and how they are issued. Warrents are issued by a judge and must have probable cause. You can see this played out on various crime shows, like Law and Order. These procedures should be followed when enforcing state laws. Each state can make it's own laws as long as they do not violate the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.


Oh okay. But how much prior evidence would be needed bare minimum, to get a warrant to search a woman's uterus area for further evidence though?


We’re talking about sexual assault here since such a search warrant would be against a woman’s will.


At this point it seems evident he's trolling for kicks, even though his comments often demean women.


Oh I'm sorry. I don't mean to come off as demeaning. I was just wondering how if women were prosecuted for murder, how would the evidence be legally collected.



TwilightPrincess
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29 Jun 2022, 9:30 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
ironpony wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
The 4th amendment prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and with search warrents and how they are issued. Warrents are issued by a judge and must have probable cause. You can see this played out on various crime shows, like Law and Order. These procedures should be followed when enforcing state laws. Each state can make it's own laws as long as they do not violate the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.


Oh okay. But how much prior evidence would be needed bare minimum, to get a warrant to search a woman's uterus area for further evidence though?


We’re talking about sexual assault here since such a search warrant would be against a woman’s will.


At this point it seems evident he's trolling for kicks, even though his comments often demean women.


A lot of people don’t think through the full implications of what they’re saying, especially if they assume that their side is right, so I was wondering if that was happening here.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 29 Jun 2022, 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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29 Jun 2022, 9:32 am

ironpony wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
ironpony wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
The 4th amendment prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and with search warrents and how they are issued. Warrents are issued by a judge and must have probable cause. You can see this played out on various crime shows, like Law and Order. These procedures should be followed when enforcing state laws. Each state can make it's own laws as long as they do not violate the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.


Oh okay. But how much prior evidence would be needed bare minimum, to get a warrant to search a woman's uterus area for further evidence though?


We’re talking about sexual assault here since such a search warrant would be against a woman’s will.


At this point it seems evident he's trolling for kicks, even though his comments often demean women.


Oh I'm sorry. I don't mean to come off as demeaning. I was just wondering how if women were prosecuted for murder, how would the evidence be legally collected.


There should never, EVER be issued search warrants to search a woman’s uterus. Period. That would be an extremely damaging thing for a government to endorse.


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TwilightPrincess
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29 Jun 2022, 9:39 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh I see. Well it's hard for me to know how to feel about the issue because it's very complicated. One the one hand people don't think the women are being cared for enough, which is understandable, and on the other hand, people don't feel the children are being cared for enough which is understandable.



It’s true that children aren’t being cared for enough. There are massive numbers of children who need to be adopted into permanent hopes that will never be.


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kraftiekortie
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29 Jun 2022, 9:42 am

Even in the worst anti-abortion states, punishments are almost always more severe for someone who performs an abortion than it is for the recipient of an abortion.

Abortion is not considered “murder” in the full sense of the term in any state.



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29 Jun 2022, 9:43 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
The 4th amendment prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and with search warrents and how they are issued. Warrents are issued by a judge and must have probable cause. You can see this played out on various crime shows, like Law and Order. These procedures should be followed when enforcing state laws. Each state can make it's own laws as long as they do not violate the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.
Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

"Probable Cause" means more than mere suspicion or blindly "fishing" for evidence of illegal activity; it means there has to have been observable criminal behavior or evidence that a crime may have been committed.

Spending a weekend in Los Angeles means nothing more than taking a two-day trip to a California city.  Anyone could commit a crime during that two-day interval, so there is no valid reason to put only women in situations where they must account for their every action during that time.

The kind of mind that observes a woman taking a weekend trip and assumes "Abortion" is the same kind of mind that sees a light in the sky and assumes "Space Aliens".  Too bad many of those same minds seem to be enacting sharia-like laws in this country.



Last edited by Fnord on 29 Jun 2022, 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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29 Jun 2022, 9:44 am

ironpony wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
ironpony wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
The 4th amendment prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and with search warrents and how they are issued. Warrents are issued by a judge and must have probable cause. You can see this played out on various crime shows, like Law and Order. These procedures should be followed when enforcing state laws. Each state can make it's own laws as long as they do not violate the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.


Oh okay. But how much prior evidence would be needed bare minimum, to get a warrant to search a woman's uterus area for further evidence though?


We’re talking about sexual assault here since such a search warrant would be against a woman’s will.


At this point it seems evident he's trolling for kicks, even though his comments often demean women.


Oh I'm sorry. I don't mean to come off as demeaning. I was just wondering how if women were prosecuted for murder, how would the evidence be legally collected.


They could probably assemble evidence from a variety of sources without doing a pelvic exam, not that that would be okay.


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Fnord
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29 Jun 2022, 9:48 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I was just wondering how if women were prosecuted for murder, how would the evidence be legally collected.
They could probably assemble evidence from a variety of sources without doing a pelvic exam.
Phone apps that some women use to track their periods are not protected by medical confidentiality laws.  Thus, the data they collect (and they do collect data) may not be protected under the Fourth Amendment -- no search warrant required.

If you have such an app, you may want to consider deleting it and using a more confidential method.



TwilightPrincess
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29 Jun 2022, 9:50 am

Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I was just wondering how if women were prosecuted for murder, how would the evidence be legally collected.
They could probably assemble evidence from a variety of sources without doing a pelvic exam.
Phone apps that some women use to track their periods are not protected by medical confidentiality laws.  Thus, the data they collect (and they do collect data) may not be protected under the Fourth Amendment -- no search warrant required.

If you have such an app, you may want to consider deleting it and using a more confidential method.


I don’t get periods because of my IUD. (It’s for health reasons, not birth control).


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IsabellaLinton
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29 Jun 2022, 9:51 am

ironpony wrote:
I was just wondering how if women were prosecuted for murder, how would the evidence be legally collected.


We've already answered that.

Medical records.
Perhaps also an investigation of the home or surrounding areas, depending where it took place.


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IsabellaLinton
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29 Jun 2022, 9:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Even in the worst anti-abortion states, punishments are almost always more severe for someone who performs an abortion than it is for the recipient of an abortion.


Quite often the person who performs the abortion is the mother herself.
There's no one else involved.
This is especially true when they don't have access to medical care.


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kraftiekortie
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29 Jun 2022, 9:57 am

Even in the worst days of illegal abortion in NY State, a person who performed her own abortion could be sentenced to a maximum of 3 months in jail.

Nowadays, it’s only a crime if the fetus aborted has been growing inside the mother for 24 weeks or more.

In present-day Louisiana, a doctor who performs an abortion could be sentenced to 15 years in prison.



TwilightPrincess
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29 Jun 2022, 10:01 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Even in the worst days of illegal abortion in NY State, a person who performed her own abortion could be sentenced to a maximum of 3 months in jail.



I’m assuming that usually these women were “found out” because they developed serious side effects and had to receive medical care.


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kraftiekortie
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29 Jun 2022, 10:02 am

That's probably true.....

I would say that the pain, psychological issues, and all the rest involved in a woman performing her own abortion are punishment enough.....and any decent person would feel this way, too.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 29 Jun 2022, 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.