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Nades
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03 Jul 2022, 9:10 am

But what's your end goal? If it's to have a partner then you'll need to find a happy middle ground between physical contact and romance. It's unrealistic to expect to keep a guys interests of they're not getting any feedback and it feels like "friends" for too long for potential partners.



Nic na Mara
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10 Jul 2022, 2:36 am

Thanks for all your replies, especially to Where_am_I, nick007, Twilightprincess & blazingstar!
Your words give me the good feeling, I'm not alone with these problems and I can imagine better now, how I can manage situations in near future. And I have to say sorry, because I guess I post in the wrong forum, but I wasn't sure where it could fit.

I wanna explain a little bit more exactly:
I'm not looking for a romantic relationship, I've never had one. I also never had a date or any meeting, that I would called a date. I avoided all of that from the first time, because I didn't want it. I felt better with boys in a group than with girls, because my behavior is more male then female. But my body is female. I grow up and couldn't realize early enough, the social communication between men and woman who just looking for partnership (or just for something quick, you know). I'm quite naive. When I meet someone for the first time, I get to know a new person (just a person, regardless of gender). Even if I make it clear several times right from the beginning that I'm not interested. A lot of guys ignore what I say, thinking she wanna play cat and mouse, but that's not true.

There is a group of young people and I really enjoy it to talk about my specific interest with them, for example physics, programming or other scientist topics. I feel very well then with these people. But when one of the group comes closer physically after 15 minutes of talk and suddenly touch my ass, I don't feel well anymore. My amygdala sounds an alert and I don't feel safe with this stranger.

I don't know, how I can describe better these strange situations I had. I can only imagine, how it would be to have a deep connection in the mind with someone of the other gender, so that the physical contact also becomes a need without having to overcome.

Unconditional love is something very rare in these strange world, so I don't hope for it anymore. Through my two "Aspie-Dogs" I learned, what it means to love and be loved unconditionally, but with people I've never been able to experience this personally. I experienced - like most autistic people - the duty to adapt or rejection and violation.

I wanna go my way of life, doing what I like and what is for interest to me. Without the plan to find a partner, get married, get pregnant with a pile of children and so on. If somebody cross my way someday, who is similar to me, especially with the values, so that I will feel safe automatically, I will be glad to feel close in the mind (as well with the body later without pressure) to somebody else. If I never meet someone like this, I also don't care, because I'm not searching or waiting for it.

I guess my autism is very strong in this point (relationships to other people), but I can't change it. And this should be okay!



HighLlama
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10 Jul 2022, 2:45 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
When I'm not interested, I avoid making eye contact with the individual and will try my best not to engage with him in conversation, only responding with short statements if the situation requires it.


Has this been pretty effective for you? And do you do anything else to deter people in these situations? I find when I act similarly it's perceived as shyness, and seems to attract people instead of having the desired response.



PhosphorusDecree
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10 Jul 2022, 3:24 am

I reckon this situation is more common and "normal" than most people think. One couple I knew (neither of them autistic), when they were first dating, the man just plain did not understand why she didn't fall right ino bed with him if she liked him. Some people need a lot more time than others to build up that trust. Hell, I'm your typical sweaty male lust-monster in many ways, but I'd still panic and run a mile if some strange woman started putting her hands all over me. Whether she looked good or not.


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blazingstar
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10 Jul 2022, 5:01 am

Nic na Mara, You think things through and base your decisions on how you see value in your life. Good for you.

Unconditional love is exceedingly rare. And it doesn't come from chasing or searching. If it shows up, it appears. It's not necessary for a fulfilling life. And I think you have figured that out. :)

And if some man, or any person, touched me on the ass within 15 minutes of meeting me, I'd slug him one. Not really. But I would push him away and tell him NO!. Nobody has the right to touch your body anywhere unless it is okay with you.


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rdos
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10 Jul 2022, 5:30 am

I think a good strategy to put off intrusive NTs is to play it naturally. Don't engage in conversation with them since this is how NT relationship are initiated. If they are serious and on the spectrum, they will initiate non-verbally at a distance.



Aspie1
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10 Jul 2022, 7:25 am

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
I reckon this situation is more common and "normal" than most people think. One couple I knew (neither of them autistic), when they were first dating, the man just plain did not understand why she didn't fall right ino bed with him if she liked him. Some people need a lot more time than others to build up that trust. Hell, I'm your typical sweaty male lust-monster in many ways, but I'd still panic and run a mile if some strange woman started putting her hands all over me. Whether she looked good or not.
I said this upthread, and I'll say it again here: there's a fine line between being patient and being a simp. Obviously I wouldn't expect coitus or even fellatio to happen on a first date. But there has to be SOME physical affection. I'm talking about things like snuggling, holding hands, full-body hugs, kissing, etc. If a woman doesn't give me those things, then I have no way of knowing if she's truly into me or is just stringing me along. That's what happened with the first girl I dated, at age 18: when I took her to a dance, she wouldn't dance close with me. After that night, I ghosted her without a guilty conscience. Although, maybe it was my fault for her losing interest: I acted too clingy and desperate.

I think the reason for your reaction to this hypothetical woman is that it's NOT NORMAL for women get sexual with men quickly, unless the man is alpha (which 80% of men are not). So if a woman showed sexual interest in me too fast, I'd run away, rather than partake. Why? Because I'm a beta, and there could be myriads of malicious reasons she was doing that: maybe she wants to watch her boyfriend beat me up, maybe she wants to extort me with sex crime charges, who knows! Nonsexual physical contact, on the other hand, I totally enjoy; women often use it as a way of showing admiration and respect to a man, which is extremely difficult to fake.



rdos
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10 Jul 2022, 7:39 am

Nic na Mara wrote:
I don't say this: Never want! But first, I need a lot of trust, honesty, understanding and respect! And I need to feel close with the mind to somebody else! (Why I should get into a relationship with someone without feeling comfortable?! After all, a partnership shouldn't be forced or illusory like it is with most of the people I observed in my surrounding.)


I think that is rather typical autistic, but most peope go about achieiving it in the wrong way. First, to create this kind of "soulmate" connection, you need to avoid talking to them since the brain then cannot concentrate on building the connection. You also cannot be preoccupied with social conventions and trying to be NT. Practicing meditation might help in shutting-off all the NT adaptations.

My research on attachment (bonding) clearly shows that for autistics, bonding occurs at a distance and dating (talking) makes it stagnate and never develop to it's full potential.



rdos
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10 Jul 2022, 7:50 am

Aspie1 wrote:
The above post makes sense. But if a romantic relationship has no physical component at all, then it's basically a platonic friendship---a relationship in name only, a RINO. (Sharing a political acronym by pure coincidence. ;)) It gives all the relationship benefits to the woman, and none to the man. She gets to brag about having a boyfriend, be chauffeured around, and eat free dinners, while he can't even hold hands. That's as RINO as Greg Abbott. ;)


Yes, a transactional relationship is of no value, but then those never develop non-verbally. Their key ingredient is that the female can exchange sex for favors or presents.

Unconditional love or a soulmate connection is never like this, but actually can both provide positive feelings (without verbal smicker) and sex in the mind, which I'm sure many autistics actually enjoy even if they don't enjoy sexual intercourse.



TwilightPrincess
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10 Jul 2022, 8:22 am

HighLlama wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
When I'm not interested, I avoid making eye contact with the individual and will try my best not to engage with him in conversation, only responding with short statements if the situation requires it.


Has this been pretty effective for you? And do you do anything else to deter people in these situations? I find when I act similarly it's perceived as shyness, and seems to attract people instead of having the desired response.


Yes, I do find it effective.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Jul 2022, 12:51 pm

Not showering and rolling in mud may be effective too.

Hopefully.



Nic na Mara
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12 Jul 2022, 10:25 am

Thanks a lot again to blazingstar and rdos!
I feel understood and will take your advice to heart.

Practicing meditation might help in shutting-off all the NT adaptations.
Yes, I am absolutely convinced of that. I've been practicing for a while and it actually helps.