‘New era’ as NATO ‘takes on’ Russia and China

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funeralxempire
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02 Jul 2022, 9:58 am

jimmy m wrote:
Whatever the path forward, it must be based on the fact that Russia and China are a combined threat. And I suspect they are working together and have been for many decades. It is in their genes.


Wait, so they're genetically predisposed to oppose the west instead of just having different interests? :scratch:


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02 Jul 2022, 10:34 am

jimmy m wrote:
Whatever the path forward, it must be based on the fact that Russia and China are a combined threat. And I suspect they are working together and have been for many decades. It is in their genes.

Tell me one more time?

The Chinese and other Northeast Asians who were genocidal by the Russians will not forgive this statement. The PRC, which was changed our layout of industrial by the military threat from the Soviet Union, is also.
Russia shelled Chinese civilian ships until 2012 and celebrated the signing of the historical treaty of ceding territory from China last month——as the country that stole the most territory from China.

Being threatened by the west is the only reason for unity. Even so, Russia has never given up harming China's interests to realize its own.

I guess you don't want to see me sort out a list of serious contradictions between China and Russia here. This will make the scene very ugly.


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02 Jul 2022, 10:52 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
I guess you don't want to see me sort out a list of serious contradictions between China and Russia here. This will make the scene very ugly.

If this discussion can't be pursued in a civil manner then it should be locked. Please assume @SkinnedWolf has a valid basis for their arguments even if you don't agree.


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02 Jul 2022, 8:33 pm

jimmy m wrote:
Whatever the path forward, it must be based on the fact that Russia and China are a combined threat. And I suspect they are working together and have been for many decades. It is in their genes.

Even during the Cold War when they were nominally allied in the supposedly monolithic "Communist Bloc" they were in fact adversaries. The only thing that kept their marriage going was the US war in Indochina. China and Russia combined to support Vietnam against the US. Once Vietnam kicked us off of their soil they snubbed Beijing and became besties with Moscow alone- creating a Russia-India-Vietnam alliance against what amounted to a Nixon era US-China-Pakistan alliance.

We are now indeed in a revived version of the Cold War (with a side dish of hot war in Ukraine) with China and Russia again allied (in the cause of authoritarianism) against the democratic West. But as with the original cold war this new marriage is not without issues. Russia fears being swallowed up by its more populous resource hungry neighbor even more than Australia fears China.

And, as Skinned is saying, China has bad memories: Czarist Russia joined the other powers of Europe in plundering the far east, and in fact -slole more land from China than any other nation has stolen from any other nation!. Even more than the US took from Mexico in the 1840s.



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03 Jul 2022, 3:43 am

naturalplastic wrote:
And, as Skinned is saying, China has bad memories: Czarist Russia joined the other powers of Europe in plundering the far east, and in fact -slole more land from China than any other nation has stolen from any other nation!. Even more than the US took from Mexico in the 1840s.

Not just Czarist Russia.

In 1921, the Russian emperor instigated the independence of the Republic of Tuva. In 1944 (already the Soviet Union) officially invaded and merged, covering a total area of about 170 thousand square kilometers.

In 1945, with the support of the Soviet army, Mongolia "voted for independence", covering a total area of about 1.44 million square kilometers. In 1946, Mongolian Cyrillic alphabetization.

In 1958, the Soviet Union forcibly demanded the construction of military long wave radio stations on Chinese territory and the formation of a joint fleet with China in China's territorial waters, otherwise it refused to give some promised weapons and equipment.

In 1963, Beijing issued a "land lost list", requiring the Soviet Union to recognize that at least 500000 square kilometers of territory in the outer northeast, outer northwest and other places are "illegal". The Soviet Union flatly refused, biting that the Treaty of Nebuchadnezzar in 1689 was an "unequal treaty" against Russia. Aihui treaty and Beijing treaty are "recovering lost land" or occupying "ownerless land".

In 1969, Zhenbao Island Incident.

The above is only the part involving territory.


Владивосток/Vladivostok means "rule the East". Whenever Russia is frustrated in the west, They began to plunder territory from the East. Even if they turned red, they never hid it.
The old people in Northeast China hate Russians more than Japanese.

What kind of propaganda can distort history in the minds of ordinary people like this?
China and Russia have never been friends. Once the United States relaxes its repression here, China and Russia will soon start a new confrontation.


NATO, a military alliance that took the initiative to attack and illegally bombed the Chinese Embassy, can be called a defense organization.

When China and Russia have to cling together on the surface because of common security problems, it is described as the "axis of evil".
Even though China's actual support actions for Russia's military actions really exceed the energy costs paid by Europe to Russia, further consideration is needed.
Even though China recently protected the second Ukraine from Russia.

India, Russia's true close ally, has never been accused to this extent. Because India seems to be able to cooperate to contain China.
(incidentally, the accusation of "Indian genocide against Muslims" is much more solid and is still ongoing. But compared with the accusation against China, the uproar caused is disproportionate.)


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naturalplastic
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03 Jul 2022, 7:56 am

Gosh!

Now I feel like a marriage counselor.

Thank you China ...for sharing your feelings about being mistreated by Moscow. Here is a kleenex tissue.

But now its time for you to look at things from his pov.

Like...China...doncha think that the Soviets were right on some points...like ...when they allowed the people of Mongolia to have their own country? And you Chinese got to keep, and still have, INNER Mongolia, after all. Which is the richer part of the land. So you still gotta a good deal out of it. And docha think that its a good idea to have an independant third country (like Mongolia) as a buffer state between you two feuding giants?

And remember those times...during the Vietnam war, when the Soviets would send trainloads of supplies through your country to Vietnam. And the Vietnamese would get livid because they were shorted equipment that was promised because...you Chinese would off load stuff from those trains for your own use (hey! Moscow is sending Vietnam some cool s**t...WE could use it!...lets help ourselves). :lol:



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03 Jul 2022, 8:23 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Like...China...doncha think that the Soviets were right on some points...like ...when they allowed the people of Mongolia to have their own country? And you Chinese got to keep, and still have, INNER Mongolia, after all. Which is the richer part of the land. So you still gotta a good deal out of it. And docha think that its a good idea to have an independant third country (like Mongolia) as a buffer state between you two feuding giants?

1. Mongolia connects the northeast, North China and northwest of China. After Mongolia's independence, China's northern border is sunken to the south, and from the east of Mongolia to Xinjiang, it should follow the sunken border. If Mongolia is still there, you can go straight.
This makes the cost of any logistics transportation to Xinjiang higher by several grades.

2. Zamyn uud on the border between China and Mongolia is only more than 500 kilometers away from Beijing.

3. The source of spring sandstorms in northern China is Mongolia, and the reason is the serious desertification in Mongolia. If Mongolia is still a part of China, it will be governed like other deserts in China.

4. If Mongolia is part of China, China can directly cut off the Siberian Railway in case of conflict with Russia.
If there must be a buffer zone, why is it China that cedes territory rather than Russia?

5. Before and after the independence of Mongolia, where were the Han/Chinese people who lived there for generations?
naturalplastic wrote:
And remember those times...during the Vietnam war, when the Soviets would send trainloads of supplies through your country to Vietnam. And the Vietnamese would get livid because they were shorted equipment that was promised because...you Chinese would off load stuff from those trains for your own use (hey! Moscow is sending Vietnam some cool s**t...WE could use it!...lets help ourselves). :lol:

Um...I have read what the Vietnamese government is promoting when writing the history of Vietnam and China. Compared with...the way other content is told..., this matter is not worth mentioning.


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03 Jul 2022, 11:07 pm

Quote:
Albanese condemned by China for being ‘no different’ from Morrison
July 03, 2022 - 9:45AM

Shadow Defence Minister Andrew Hastie says “continuity” from Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is a “good thing” as he speaks out against Russia and China.

He said seeing Mr Albanese gain traction with NATO allies is a good thing on a “bipartisan basis”.

“When you’ve got the Chinese newspapers online condemning Mr Albanese for being no different from his predecessor Mr Morrison,” Mr Hastie told Sky News Australia.

“He’s obviously continuing on with our policy which was to always stand up for Australian sovereignty and to defend the things that we care about.”


https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-ne ... rallPos=11


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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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03 Jul 2022, 11:11 pm

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Australia is ‘all in’ on NATO project
July 03, 2022 - 10:40AM

The Australian’s Environment Editor Graham Lloyd says Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s trip to Madrid for the NATO Summit was successful and significant.

“Australia is all in on the NATO project,” he told Sky News Australia.

“The significance there is NATO is expanding its focus to our part of the world, (and) extremely concerned about the new relationship with no limits that’s been formed between Russia and China.”

Mr Lloyd said Australia is “fully engaged” and recognises the impact of the Ukraine conflict on Europe and Africa.

“We’ve agreed to do what we can to help supply agricultural products and energy into markets that desperately need it,” he said.


https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/g ... rallPos=13


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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05 Jul 2022, 7:16 pm

Quote:
China could spark ‘moment of reckoning’, UK intelligence officer warns

A UK spy chief has issued an ominous warning about China, citing cyber security concerns that could lead to a major clash.


Quote:
Last year, Beijing was accused of sponsoring an attack on Microsoft Exchange email servers, with Western nations accusing China of “systematic cyber sabotage”.

The hack, which was first identified in January 2021, compromised of tens of thousands of computers around the world.

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Private sector groups quickly pointed the finger at China, but it was months before government began publicly accusing the nation.

A joint statement from Australia’s – at the time – foreign minister Marise Payne, home affairs minister Karen Andrews and defence minister Peter Dutton, condemned China’s “malicious cyber activities”.

The Australian government claimed the actions in cyberspace had “undermined international stability and security”.

They said the Australian government was “seriously concerned” about reports from allies that China’s Ministry of State Security (MSS) was “engaging contract hackers” to steal intellectual property from other countries.

“Australia calls on all countries, including China, to act responsibly in cyberspace,” said Ms Payne, Ms Andrews and Mr Dutton.

“China must adhere to the commitments it has made in the G20, and bilaterally, to refrain from cyber-enabled theft of intellectual property, trade secrets and confidential business information with the intent of obtaining competitive advantage.”


https://www.news.com.au/technology/onli ... 5fea63acb7


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.