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QFT
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03 Jul 2022, 1:09 am

In the context of dating, I said a number of times I was not after sex but after emotional connection. And of course I complained about two separate things: lack of friends and lack of dates. In both cases they are about emotional aspects, just different kind of emotional aspects I guess.

But here is what hurts me even more than the lack of emotional connection. What hurts me is being misunderstood. No, not misunderstood in a loneliness type of way. But misunderstood in a sense of “how dare they think such a ridiculous thing about me without realizing just how ridiculous it is”.

Case in point. My mom doesn’t ostracize me. On the contrary, I get unwanted attention from her, as she treats me like a child. Now, when my mom reminds me to do certain things I can’t *logically* forget, I have very similar type of anger as to when women assume I am creepy even though I can’t *logically* be such. In both cases, my complaint is about people attributing to me something illogical. In one case it leads to too much attention (my mom) in the other case it leads to withdrawal of attention (other women) but in both cases it is insulting and infuriating.

When people give men dating advice, they often assume that romance is a goal, while perceived creepiness is an obstacle. Well, in my case it is the opposite. Even if I did get romance with someone, the fact that others view me as creepy is infurienting in and of itself. And, conversely, if I were to know that nobody views me as creepy, then maybe I wouldn’t be bothered by my single status nearly as much.

Here is something I read on the internet that hopefully will help you see where I am coming from. A study shown that

a) Unattractive people are more likely to be seen as creepy than attractive ones

b) People say that creepy people pose some kind of threat

c) People don’t think creepy people are aware of their own creepiness

d) People don’t think that creepy people can help the fact that they are creepy

Now, if you combine “b” and “c”, the logical conclusion is that creepy people are a type of sleep walkers. How can someone be a threat without being aware of what they are doing? Being a sleepwalker is the only logical possibility.

If you, instead, combine b and d, you will also reach a conclusion that they are sleep walkers, for very similar reasons.

Now, if others are thinking that I am a sleep walker when I am not, do you see how ridiculous that feels? Now do you begin to see why I would rather feel lonely than feel accused? Particularly accused of something THAT illogical?

And I am not done yet. Now look at “a”. First of all, “a” in and of itself is illogical. And I hope by now you can see why being accused of something illogical feels infuriating. Particularly if it is coupled with being treated as inferior, which it does.

Because the illogical-logic of “a” is “you are unattractive, so you are inferior, since all inferior traits go together there can’t be anything possibly good about you and you are guilty of anything and everything bad; creepiness is bad, so you must be a creeper too”.

Now, how am I supposed to feel when I am viewed this way?

So you see how it’s not even about dating? It is about a character assassination. I need a girlfriend in order to protect myself from the character assassination described above.

Back in the good old high school days I was blissfully unaware of this, and that’s why I didn’t need a girlfriend, despite the fact that my sex drive used to be higher. Back then I assumed it’s all about being ahead of everyone else in math and physics. So my worst nightmare was when I reached the age where knowing calculus was no longer unusual, and I no longer felt superior for it.

But nowdays I realize that it’s not about knowing calculus, it is about being attractive. When people view me as smart (which they still do) they view me as a tool to be used (well it was only one person that kept asking me for help few years back, but you see my point). On the other hand, being or not being attractive is not about usefulness, it is about being viewed as a human to begin with. Somebody attractive without education is a human being who encountered unfortunate situation. Somebody unattractive with good education is a robot that occasionally happens to be useful. I would certainly prefer the former, yet I keep getting the latter.

Let me now compare it to something else: fat shaming. Despite all the fat shaming by *some* people, overweight women still get treated as equals by *some* other women, including even the skinny ones. Because you see, the skinny women don’t have perfect bodies either, and are concerned about their weight too (I even know it first hand: everyone else is telling me that I am skinny but I don’t feel that way). So a skinny woman can view her overweight female friend as someone in her own predicament just a different degree of it. That’s why she can be supportive of her friend.

But now let’s take my situation (which, I guess, is a combination of having Asperger, being a male, and being older). Do women ever view me as someone with the same mind just trapped in a bad situation? Nope, not at all. They assume I am of a different mind, devoid of what defines a human. That’s why, unlike the example described above, I don’t get any sympathy or support.

Few weeks ago I talked to a woman on a dating site and was complaining to her about other women. She said women want only one thing. I asked her what is it. She said they want to feel heard/understood. And I was like, “that is EXACTLY what I want!! ! If it wasn’t for that ONE thing I won’t be complaining!! !” And by the way, she is right: there were plenty of examples when women stopped talking to me Precisely because they assumed I didn’t hear them. But guess what. I heard them perfectly: enough so as to obsess about every word of every sentence they said for month and years to come. So when they assumed I didn’t hear them when I clearly did, that’s yet another example of MYSELF being unheard/misunderstood. But, back to the point. If women Know how horrible it feels to be unheard/Misunderstood, why is it they can’t put up with me when I am complaining about this very thing?!



kraftiekortie
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03 Jul 2022, 7:28 am

You overthink things.

Don’t think about the implications of taking a shower. Just take a shower. So you will feel clean for yourself.

People tend to be scared of disheveled people, no matter how articulate they are.

I used to be disheveled myself, and felt people misunderstood me. My solution was to take showers more often; people started misunderstanding me less.



Fireblossom
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03 Jul 2022, 9:22 am

QFT wrote:
Few weeks ago I talked to a woman on a dating site and was complaining to her about other women. She said women want only one thing. I asked her what is it. She said they want to feel heard/understood. And I was like, “that is EXACTLY what I want!! ! If it wasn’t for that ONE thing I won’t be complaining!! !” And by the way, she is right: there were plenty of examples when women stopped talking to me Precisely because they assumed I didn’t hear them. But guess what. I heard them perfectly: enough so as to obsess about every word of every sentence they said for month and years to come. So when they assumed I didn’t hear them when I clearly did, that’s yet another example of MYSELF being unheard/misunderstood. But, back to the point. If women Know how horrible it feels to be unheard/Misunderstood, why is it they can’t put up with me when I am complaining about this very thing?!


That woman was generalizing; what she said doesn't apply to all women. In fact, it probably doesn't apply to most of us. Being understood and heard is probably important for most, but I don't think it's the only thing, and not even the most important thing for some.

Also, hearing and understanding are two different things. Hearing means that you physically hear what they say instead of your attention being elsewhere or you literally not hearing it, that you want to listen, while understanding means... well, understanding. If someone tells you something and you have to ask a lot of questions about it and analyze it to no end, that's a clear sign that you haven't understood what was said.



QFT
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03 Jul 2022, 11:58 am

Fireblossom wrote:
That woman was generalizing; what she said doesn't apply to all women. In fact, it probably doesn't apply to most of us. Being understood and heard is probably important for most, but I don't think it's the only thing, and not even the most important thing for some.


I guess I can't speak for others (of either gender). But at least it described *me* quite well. Not being understood is pretty much the one thing that would keep me obsessing about a situation for months on end. If only I knew I was understood, I wouldn't have been so frustrated.

A certain waitress at a restaurant was friendly with me, and repeatedly said she wanted to be just friends. I didn't even begin to complain as to why she wouldn't date me. I feel understood by her, and I cherish that.

But when it comes to most other people, then I feel misunderstood and everything else feels like a consequence of being misunderstood. That is probably the one main reason why I keep obsessing about things.

Fireblossom wrote:
Also, hearing and understanding are two different things. Hearing means that you physically hear what they say instead of your attention being elsewhere or you literally not hearing it, that you want to listen, while understanding means... well, understanding.


I see that hearing and understanding are two separate things. But the point is that a lot of people (both male and female) actually said I am not "hearing" them. But, like you said, I do hear them -- if we are talking about the actual word hearing -- thats why its frustrating when they allge as if I don't.

Fireblossom wrote:
If someone tells you something and you have to ask a lot of questions about it and analyze it to no end, that's a clear sign that you haven't understood what was said.


I see that having to ask lots of questions implies not understanding "at the moment". But it also implies a "goal" to understand. So why don't people want to try to help me out with that goal, particularly if wanting to be understood is so important to them?

It feels like they don't do it because they assume I don't "hear" them. Which goes back to the other thing I am complaining about.



Fireblossom
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03 Jul 2022, 12:12 pm

QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
Also, hearing and understanding are two different things. Hearing means that you physically hear what they say instead of your attention being elsewhere or you literally not hearing it, that you want to listen, while understanding means... well, understanding.


I see that hearing and understanding are two separate things. But the point is that a lot of people (both male and female) actually said I am not "hearing" them. But, like you said, I do hear them -- if we are talking about the actual word hearing -- thats why its frustrating when they allge as if I don't.


Hmm perhaps they mean "understand" when they say "hear?" As in, they know that you can physically hear them, meaning that you're listening, but that they don't "feel heard?" I mean, when someone says that they "don't feel heard", it doesn't mean that they think that no one was physically able to listen to them, but that they did hear yet didn't understand what was said?

Of course, if they did mean it this way, it'd be clearer to just say "understand", but people tend to speak in ways they've learned to and it's difficult to unlearn it. Perhaps next time someone says that you're not hearing them, you could ask for a clarification and ask if they mean that you're not understanding them?

Quote:
I see that having to ask lots of questions implies not understanding "at the moment". But it also implies a "goal" to understand. So why don't people want to try to help me out with that goal, particularly if wanting to be understood is so important to them?


I'm sure some have tried to help you understand, right? As in, when you've asked more questions or misunderstood something, they've tried to answer you questions or corrected you, right? That means they helped you out. However, the thing is that people's time, energy and patience is limited. If you don't understand something, especially something important to them, before one or several of those runs out, people often conclude that it's better to try with someone else, especially when it comes to relationships. And no, it's not selfish of them, for they owe you nothing. You're not entitled to their time or company, so if you want it, it's your job to make yourself more appealing to the person whose company you want.