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DuckHairback
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06 Oct 2022, 5:53 am

KitLily wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
^
Call me cynical, but I suspect he's not crazy, but just using a crafty double-bluff. He knows the gov isn't going to tax him, but it makes him look like a good person if he begs for that to happen. If he really wants to help Britain, he can proactively lower his prices, donate his personal fortune to the poor, and open his big, beautiful home to the homeless. Nobody has to be forced to give back what they stole, if they truly want social justice.


No. I'm not saying you are wrong, but what I meant is that it's crazy that a CEO of a greedy, billionaire company is asking the government to tax his company and others. It shows how far to the right our government has gone when the CEO of this company is less right-wing.


It's sort of crazy, but also makes a sort of sense. He can't lower the prices his company charges on a whim. He'd have to get it approved by a board of directors who are in turn directly responsible to the company's shareholders who invest in it expecting it will do everything possible to maximise its profits. The system of PLCs is structured for the purpose of profit-making, it's incapable of acting otherwise, even if the individuals managing it can see the damage its doing.

That's why he's asking the government to tax them, because that way the shareholders can't accuse the management of acting against the business and/or remove their investment capital.

It would be amazing if we could find some way to incentivise other behaviours in large businesses.


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KitLily
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06 Oct 2022, 6:11 am

No, we're talking at cross purposes, sorry.

I'm talking about irony. It's ironic that a greedy CEO has to tell the government to back off. The government is meant to control businesses, not the other way round. (although we all know this particular government is being controlled by billionaires, but that's another story)

I'm not talking about logic or financial incentives :wink:


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ToughDiamond
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06 Oct 2022, 9:21 am

KitLily wrote:
No, we're talking at cross purposes, sorry.

I'm talking about irony. It's ironic that a greedy CEO has to tell the government to back off. The government is meant to control businesses, not the other way round. (although we all know this particular government is being controlled by billionaires, but that's another story)

I'm not talking about logic or financial incentives :wink:

Yes I get that. The CEO himself isn't crazy, but the situation is. There was a similar kind of thing when the gov was trying to get the big tech firms to develop the NHS track-and-trace software. The gov wanted to use it as a surveillance tool but the companies insisted on protecting the privacy of the individual users. If I remember right, one of the companies was Google.

I think the "please tax us" CEO was hypocritical. He does have the power to put his own money where his mouth is, but I'll wager he won't do that.



KitLily
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06 Oct 2022, 4:26 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
KitLily wrote:
No, we're talking at cross purposes, sorry.

I'm talking about irony. It's ironic that a greedy CEO has to tell the government to back off. The government is meant to control businesses, not the other way round. (although we all know this particular government is being controlled by billionaires, but that's another story)

I'm not talking about logic or financial incentives :wink:

Yes I get that. The CEO himself isn't crazy, but the situation is.


Yes :)


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KitLily
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08 Oct 2022, 10:32 am

DuckHairback wrote:
Sadly, I can see this happening. Boris back in No.10 followed by a swift election to try to get him a fresh mandate before everyone remembers why he can't run a government (although I guess you could argue he still has a mandate from the 2019 election but I think they'll go early after any leadership change).

And then one of the dirtiest election campaigns we've ever seen as the Tory client media goes into overdrive to tear into Starmer's Labour. It'll make Beergate look like an endorsement.


You were saying? Look at the red meme going round ALREADY. Hope you can see this tweet:

https://twitter.com/_David_J_White_/sta ... 6515784705


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ToughDiamond
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08 Oct 2022, 5:33 pm

I still struggle to understand why anybody is ever swayed by the rhetoric of politicians. Truss says that, after over a decade of Tory rule, Britain's woes are the fault of "the anti-growth coalition." But not one word to satisfy those with the intelligence to want to know who these mysterious people are and exactly how they're supposed to have wrecked the country. All we get are sweeping, emotional allegations with no specifics that can be objectively tested or verified. It's nothing more than a clever little phrase that somebody's concocted. How in the world is that going to fly?

I know that even university students' critical thinking skills are thought to be way less than excellent, but it seems to me that the skill level necessary to detect the weakness of Truss' expressed ideas is pretty rudimentary. In simplistic vernacular terms, people in general, and perhaps those attending the conference, must be as thick as planks if the kind of horse s**t she came out with persuaded them of anything.



KitLily
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09 Oct 2022, 6:24 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Truss says that, after over a decade of Tory rule, Britain's woes are the fault of "the anti-growth coalition." But not one word to satisfy those with the intelligence to want to know who these mysterious people are and exactly how they're supposed to have wrecked the country.


Yes, she says the anti growth coalition is unions, remainers and green campaigners.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference

Another MP said the anti growth coalition includes the BBC :lol:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/1 ... coalition/

And here is a handy quiz to see if YOU are part of the anti growth coalition :lol: :lmao:

https://www.indy100.com/politics/liz-tr ... -coalition


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ToughDiamond
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09 Oct 2022, 11:59 am

KitLily wrote:
Yes, she says the anti growth coalition is unions, remainers and green campaigners.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference

Another MP said the anti growth coalition includes the BBC :lol:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/1 ... coalition/

And here is a handy quiz to see if YOU are part of the anti growth coalition :lol: :lmao:

https://www.indy100.com/politics/liz-tr ... -coalition

Interesting. The Tories have been accusing the BBC of left-wing bias since at least 1984, the year the Beeb reversed the footage of the Battle Of Orgreave to make it look like the miners provoked a brutal police attack - the truth is, the police attack was unprovoked. That's a very strange kind of left-wing bias.

I liked the quiz, especially this tongue-in-cheek bit at the end:

"What do you mean this is all one big vomit of rhetoric, designed to distract and divide, and that we should be scrutinising politicians who peddle this nonsense instead of even humouring it?"

That's the exact point I made in my previous post. What a filthy, anti-growth varmint I am. :oops:



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10 Oct 2022, 6:04 am

KitLily wrote:
Yes, she says the anti growth coalition is unions, remainers and green campaigners


accusation by the Tories of anti growth, when they are the party who wanted Brexit which has shown to have slowed economic growth. and Truss calling people 'remainers' as some kind of insult, when she voted remain.

That lot really are nuts. and there is nothing Truss won't say or do to appease the hard right Daily Mail voters



KitLily
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10 Oct 2022, 7:33 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Interesting. The Tories have been accusing the BBC of left-wing bias since at least 1984, the year the Beeb reversed the footage of the Battle Of Orgreave to make it look like the miners provoked a brutal police attack - the truth is, the police attack was unprovoked. That's a very strange kind of left-wing bias.

I liked the quiz, especially this tongue-in-cheek bit at the end:

"What do you mean this is all one big vomit of rhetoric, designed to distract and divide, and that we should be scrutinising politicians who peddle this nonsense instead of even humouring it?"

That's the exact point I made in my previous post. What a filthy, anti-growth varmint I am. :oops:


Exactly! I knew I was correct! I grew up thinking that the BBC was leftist and the Conservatives disapproved of it. My parents were lefties and they loved the BBC but all the Tories I knew hated it.

But in the last few years the BBC has been swinging to the right- interviewing right wing figures while the left wing ones don't get a look in; not reporting on dodgy things the right wing is doing etc. I thought the BBC had been muzzled by the government.

Yet now the right wing government says the BBC is part of the anti-growth coalition? WTF?

Yes, I'm afraid I'm part of the anti-growth coalition, I answered yes to many of those questions! :lol:


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KitLily
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10 Oct 2022, 7:35 am

Biscuitman wrote:
accusation by the Tories of anti growth, when they are the party who wanted Brexit which has shown to have slowed economic growth. and Truss calling people 'remainers' as some kind of insult, when she voted remain.

That lot really are nuts. and there is nothing Truss won't say or do to appease the hard right Daily Mail voters


I agree with all you say there. Apparently anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly support the government is part of the anti-growth coalition.

And by definition, Brexit is anti-growth because it cut the UK off from the nearest, most convenient trading bloc, the EU!


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ToughDiamond
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10 Oct 2022, 12:15 pm

KitLily wrote:

Exactly! I knew I was correct! I grew up thinking that the BBC was leftist and the Conservatives disapproved of it. My parents were lefties and they loved the BBC but all the Tories I knew hated it.

But in the last few years the BBC has been swinging to the right- interviewing right wing figures while the left wing ones don't get a look in; not reporting on dodgy things the right wing is doing etc. I thought the BBC had been muzzled by the government.

Yet now the right wing government says the BBC is part of the anti-growth coalition? WTF?

Yes, I'm afraid I'm part of the anti-growth coalition, I answered yes to many of those questions! :lol:


I think it's hard to objectively measure political bias, perhaps because it's hard to know exactly where the mid-point is between the left and right, hard to know what are the best criteria for testing bias, and hard to find anybody to do the job who doesn't have a political axe to grind, so I don't suppose I'll ever be absolutely certain, but this bit of research seems the soundest one I've seen:
https://theconversation.com/hard-eviden ... -bbc-17028

And yes, I think Liz (or whoever does her job for her) just lumped them in with her "anti-growth coalition" to consolidate the old fairy story about the BBC being left wing. One devastating weakness in her strategy is that this made-up group of hers includes pretty much the universe and its entire contents. I'm surprised she didn't include herself, considering how she's depressed the markets with her policies. What could be more anti-growth than that?

By the way, we're not remainers, we're Brexit deniers. Like climate-change deniers and Holocaust deniers. We must wear the right label or we won't look evil, and somebody might think there's some merit in our opinion. And then the world will explode.



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10 Oct 2022, 12:32 pm

KitLily wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
accusation by the Tories of anti growth, when they are the party who wanted Brexit which has shown to have slowed economic growth. and Truss calling people 'remainers' as some kind of insult, when she voted remain.

That lot really are nuts. and there is nothing Truss won't say or do to appease the hard right Daily Mail voters


I agree with all you say there. Apparently anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly support the government is part of the anti-growth coalition.

And by definition, Brexit is anti-growth because it cut the UK off from the nearest, most convenient trading bloc, the EU!


The Governments own OBR says Brexit is costing the country 4% in growth each year

As ever with the Tories they just accuse everyone else of doing the thing they themselves are guilty of



KitLily
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11 Oct 2022, 11:10 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
One devastating weakness in her strategy is that this made-up group of hers includes pretty much the universe and its entire contents.

By the way, we're not remainers, we're Brexit deniers. Like climate-change deniers and Holocaust deniers. We must wear the right label or we won't look evil, and somebody might think there's some merit in our opinion. And then the world will explode.


That's the thing isn't it! Everyone remotely against Truss is part of the anti growth coalition. I think it changes depending what day it is!

Brexit deniers is the stupidest label! What does it even mean? That we didn't see Brexit happen in January 2020? That we are denying the effects of Brexit?

It's hardly in the same class as Holocaust deniers or climate change deniers is it...


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KitLily
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11 Oct 2022, 11:12 am

Biscuitman wrote:
The Governments own OBR says Brexit is costing the country 4% in growth each year

As ever with the Tories they just accuse everyone else of doing the thing they themselves are guilty of


I just wonder when and if voters will start realising what sadists they are. I fear it will take an awful winter to make them do so...


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11 Oct 2022, 11:18 am

KitLily wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
The Governments own OBR says Brexit is costing the country 4% in growth each year

As ever with the Tories they just accuse everyone else of doing the thing they themselves are guilty of


I just wonder when and if voters will start realising what sadists they are. I fear it will take an awful winter to make them do so...


I also fear you are right.


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