DeSantis to colleges think like me or get defunded

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kraftiekortie
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11 Jul 2022, 8:40 am

To have a mandatory survey like this----borders on the Absurd.

DeSantis doesn't want mask mandates.....but he wants mandates for surveys such as this?



SpiralingCrow
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11 Jul 2022, 8:49 am

How will such surveys not be used to profile people?



kraftiekortie
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11 Jul 2022, 8:51 am

That's precisely DeSantis' intention, I believe.....

This Trumpist mindset has got to go!



Fnord
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11 Jul 2022, 9:14 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
How will such surveys not be used to profile people?
By being disposed of before they are read.



SpiralingCrow
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11 Jul 2022, 9:20 am

Fnord wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
How will such surveys not be used to profile people?
By being disposed of before they are read.


Somehow I doubt that's on the agenda.



Tim_Tex
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11 Jul 2022, 9:41 am

What are examples of non-white-washed history texts?



Fnord
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11 Jul 2022, 10:02 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
What are examples of non-white-washed history texts?
Not to dodge your question, but you may want to read  THIS  first . . .

Every 10 years, the SBOE reexamines what the 4.7 million students in public high schools are taught on a variety of subjects.  (As opposed to how it's done in other states, this process is conducted outside the purview of the commissioner of education or the state education agency.)  After appointing and then hearing from panels of expert "reviewers," the board considers and votes on a variety of curriculum changes: add this, tweak that, outright eliminate something else.

This time around, the vote is in May, but trouble's been brewing since January, when it became clear that the list of historical figures deemed worthy of inclusion in civics textbooks was up for discussion: at various points, Thurgood Marshall and Cesar Chavez were among those on the chopping block, while the inventor of the yo-yo (I'm not making this up) was cheerfully inserted and the laundering of Joseph McCarthy's reputation was contemplated.  Aesop's fables were found wanting, as was a discussion of the separation of church and state. There was also a problem of race and ethnicity -- or lack thereof.  Board members not allied with the conservative bloc complained that the non-Anglo history of the state was getting increasingly short shrift -- despite the demographic makeup of the Alamo battlefield, or the fact that Texas will soon be majority Hispanic.

All over the country, educators and progressives recoiled, believing that the befouled byproducts of this process would force changes to their own curricula, given the Lone Star State's massive footprint as a consumer of textbooks.  Although the executive director of the Association of American Publishers has called the pervasive influence of Texas "an urban myth," the damage was done -- as goes Texas, it was feared, so goes the country.



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Fnord
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11 Jul 2022, 11:02 am

 

Image



ASPartOfMe
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11 Jul 2022, 11:44 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
Let me be clear. Even in so-called Liberal Arts colleges and universities, the discussion of topics like socialism are banned.

What colleges are they?


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11 Jul 2022, 12:09 pm

I have a theory about the thought process here.
“Censorship is un-American, Defunding is evil, We are are getting steamrolled by the wokes, Oh f**k it, you got to fight fire with fire”

During the Vietnam War an officer told a reporter “It became necessary to destroy the town in order to save it”. That town as well as the entire country has been in Communist hands for 47 years. This mentality is also going to have bad consequences.


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11 Jul 2022, 12:09 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Let me be clear. Even in so-called Liberal Arts colleges and universities, the discussion of topics like socialism are banned.
What colleges are they?
Do not expect an answer anytime soon.



Aspiegaming
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11 Jul 2022, 12:17 pm

Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Let me be clear. Even in so-called Liberal Arts colleges and universities, the discussion of topics like socialism are banned.
What colleges are they?
Do not expect an answer anytime soon.


I was going to say all of them.


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Tim_Tex
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11 Jul 2022, 12:41 pm

Fnord wrote:


I've heard of Howard Zinn, but never read the People's History yet.

When I was in high school, over 20 years ago, we read about how slavery played a role in early prosperity, and about our mistreatment of indigenous peoples. I don't know what the differences are between CRT and what I was taught then.

We certainly weren't taught a completely rosy, romanticized version either.



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11 Jul 2022, 2:54 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I've heard of Howard Zinn, but never read the People's History yet.

When I was in high school, over 20 years ago, we read about how slavery played a role in early prosperity, and about our mistreatment of indigenous peoples. I don't know what the differences are between CRT and what I was taught then.

We certainly weren't taught a completely rosy, romanticized version either.
We were taught the white-washed male version -- that the pilgrims brought prosperity to the natives, that the enslavement of Africans was for their eventual benefit, and how women were just fine with being house-keepers and baby-makers until they were given the right to vote.  Of course, we were also taught that the Native Americans made war against the Whites, that the Civil War was fought to keep the southern states in the Union, and that women were responsible for Prohibition.

Then I got my library card, repeatedly sneaked in to the adult section, and learned for myself what really happened.



ilovepalmtrees
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11 Jul 2022, 4:30 pm

Did anybody read the actual bill? The article provides a link to the text of the bill. Here is an excerpt.

Excerpts from bill wrote:
(a) For the purposes of this subsection, the term:

1. "Intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity" means the exposure of students, faculty, and staff to, and the encouragement of their exploration of, a variety of ideological and political perspectives.

2. "Shield" means to limit students', faculty members', or staff members access to, or observation of, ideas and opinions that they may find uncomfortable, unwelcome, disagreeable, or offensive.

(b) The Board of Governors shall require each state university to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution. The Board of Governors shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each state university which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the university community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The Board of Governors shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022.

(c) The Board of Governors may not shield students, faculty, or staff at state universities from free speech.

(2) The State Board of Education and the Board of Governors, respectively, shall require, each Florida College System institution to adopt, by rule, and each state university to may adopt, by regulation, a code of conduct and appropriate penalties for violations of rules or regulations by student organizations, to be administered by the institution. Such penalties, unless otherwise provided by la, may include: reprimand; restitution; suspension, cancellation, or revocation of the registration or official recognition of a student organization; and restrictions on the use of, or removal from, campus facilities.

(3) The codes of conduct shall be published on the Florida College System institution's or state university's website, protect the rights of all students, and, at minimum, provide the following due process protections to students and student organizations: (a) The right to timely written notice. The code must require that the institution or university provide a student or student organization with timely written notice of the student's or student organization's alleged violation of the code of conduct. The notice must include sufficient detail and be provided with sufficient time to prepare for any disciplinary proceeding.

1. The written notice must include the allegations to be investigated, the citation to the specific provision of the code of conduct at issue, the process to be used in determining whether a violation has occurred and associated rights, and the date, time, and location of the disciplinary proceeding.

2. The written notice is considered timely if it is provided at least 7 business days before the disciplinary proceeding and may be provided by delivery to the student's institutional e-mail address, and if the student is under 18 years of age, to the student's parent or to the student organization's e-mail address.

3. At least 5 business days before the disciplinary proceeding, the institution or university must provide the student or student organization with:

a. A listing of all known witnesses that have provided, or will provide, information against the student or student organization.

b. All known information relating to the allegation, including inculpatory and exculpatory information.

(b) The right to a presumption that no violation occurred. The institution has the burden to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that a violation has taken place. Preponderance of the evidence means that the information presented supports the finding that it is more likely than not that the violation of the code of conduct was committed by the student or student organization.

(c) The right to an impartial hearing officer.

(d) The right against self-incrimination and the right to remain silent. Such silence may not be used against the student or student organization.

(e) The right to present relevant information and question witnesses.

(f) The right to an advisor or advocate who may not serve in any other role, including as an investigator, decider of fact, hearing officer, member of a committee or panel convened to hear or decide the charge, or any appeal.

(g) The right to have an advisor, advocate, or legal representative, at the student's or student organization's own expense, present at any proceeding, whether formal or informal. Such person may directly participate in all aspects of the proceeding, including the presentation of relevant information and questioning of witnesses.

(h) The right to appeal the final decision of the hearing officer, or any committee or panel, directly to the vice president of student affairs, or any other senior administrator designated by the code of conduct, who must hear the appeal and render a final decision. The vice president of student affairs or person designated by the code of conduct to hear the appeal may not have directly participated in any other proceeding related to the charged violation.

(i) The right to an accurate and complete record of every disciplinary proceeding relating to the charged violation of the code, including record of any appeal, to be made, preserved, and available for copying upon request by the charged student or student organization.
(j) A provision setting a time limit for charging a student or student organization with a violation of the code of conduct, and a description of those circumstances in which that time limit may be extended or waived.

(4). Sanctions authorized by such codes of conduct may be imposed only for acts or omissions in violation of rules or regulations adopted by the institution, including rules or regulations adopted under this section, rules of the State Board of Education, rules or regulations of the Board of Governors regarding the State University System, county and municipal ordinances, and the laws of this state, the United States, or any other state.


Section 2b basically requires that colleges and universities must survey students whether they feel comfortable expressing viewpoints, even unpopular ones. However as others pointed out, there is no provision that individual surveys be confidential or that survey results may not be used to make employment or course decisions.

The law also says that universities may not shield students from free speech and free expression as defined by the 1st amendment. This is just a vehicle to allow racist, sexist, homophobic, ableist, and transphobic views to be expressed. If students or staff want to hold a rally to support the KKK for instance, whether on or off campus, the school may not prevent the rally or discipline students involved. Schools must allow racist and homophobic lectures.

The next section requires colleges and universities to develop a code of conduct which list sanctions for specific behaviors, and provides due process for disciplinary proceedings. Schools must publish the code or conduct on their website. This should be a law anyway.