40 Celsius in the UK next week...what will happen?

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Joe90
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12 Jul 2022, 8:17 pm

Early to mid-30s is normal for a UK heatwave. 40s is not normal for UK and I don't think it ever has possibly gotten that high. The highest I've ever known a UK heatwave to be is about 38, and that's only happened a couple of times throughout my whole life so far.

35 is about normal for a heatwave in the UK if we get one.


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12 Jul 2022, 11:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Aprilviolets wrote:
It gets up to 45 degrees Celsius in the summer here in Australia and it's unbearable, also we get bad bushfires over here.
At the moment we're having our winter which I prefer as I hate the hot weather.


Expect 50 + in the next decade
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/10/aust ... melbourne/


I remember asking the teacher at school if the temperature would ever reach 50 degrees and he said it couldn't because it would kill us all.
Little did we know back then in the 70's.



kraftiekortie
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13 Jul 2022, 10:15 am

50 Celsius is 122 Fahrenheit......easily reachable in an Australian heatwave.

I've seen the latest forecast. Highest temperature 34 Celsius (93 Fahrenheit) for the UK (for next Tuesday). I will continue to monitor the forecast.



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13 Jul 2022, 11:36 am

Joe90 wrote:
OK apparently they reckon temperatures are going to rise up to 43 Celsius this week or next week, and I don't think it's ever gotten in the 40s in the UK before. I like hot weather but I'm a bit worried about this extreme. Will everything burst into flames? Will people die? Will things stop working? What will it affect? How will we survive? Is it liveable? Don't forget, the UK isn't a tropical country so we aren't used to temperatures as high as 40+. Typically it gets not much hotter than 36 Celsius over here. Yet Poland is only like 15 Celsius and usually Poland gets heatwaves in the summer. So I don't know what that's all about.
I'm not trying to scare anybody but I read a news story a couple months ago about 3 elderly women in a Chicago apartment building(one article I read said it was a senior facility so I'm not sure which one it is) who died when the outside temp got to about 90 Fahrenheit. Looking at Fnord's temp conversion I'd guess this would be just over 32C. I read it was a 10 story building so the temps in the upper apartments probably got a lot higher than 90 inside.

I was scared to go to sleep’: Residents, family members describe oven-like conditions in Rogers Park building where 3 women died
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html

Quote:
When Veldarin Jackson received a call on Saturday that his 68-year-old mother had been found dead, he & his wife, Adjoa, rushed to her Rogers Park apartment. The pair entered the unit & felt like they were walking into an oven.

“It was extremely hot in there,” Adjoa Jackson said. “You could hardly breathe.”

Janice Reed, who was found dead around 11:32 a.m. in that furnace-like apartment, was among three women who died Saturday in a Rogers Park senior housing facility after residents had begged the property managers for days to turn off the heat & turn on the air conditioning amid record-breaking temperatures, according to the residents, family members and the Cook County medical examiner’s office.

Delores McNeely, 76, & Gwendolyn Osborne, 72, also died in their apartments. The medical examiner’s office has not yet ruled on a cause of death.

The deaths at the James Sneider apartments, at 7450 N. Rogers Ave., resulted in condemnation & sorrow from residents who say they lost friends and neighbors and suffered inhumane conditions as temperatures climbed into the 90s. They demanded solutions that would require landlords to appropriately provide cool living spaces during heat waves, pointing to climate change & its disproportionate impact on already vulnerable communities, as well as unequal access to reliable air conditioning across the city.

Ald. Maria Hadden, 49th, introduced a resolution on Monday that called on the City Council to hold a hearing to investigate the deaths & explore legislative fixes.

“This was totally preventable,” said Leslie Perkins, chief of staff for Hadden, who had responded to complaints from residents last week.

When Adjoa Jackson heard her mother-in-law had died, she was shocked. Janice Reed had no major health problems & had planned to have lunch with a friend that day. When she didn’t show for lunch, the friend asked for a well-being check.

“We wanted to know what had gone wrong,” Jackson said.

When she and her husband showed up in the unit after learning Reed had died, they had to crack the door for circulation due to the oppressive heat, she said. The couple spoke to Reed’s neighbors, who reported that they had complained to the building’s management for days because the heat remained on instead of the air conditioning. According to the National Weather Service, the city set a record on May 11 when it reached 90 degrees.

Later that afternoon, while Adjoa and Veldarin Jackson were at the apartment building, they learned two more bodies were found. Residents began going door to door to check on their neighbors.

“I was very, very angry,” Adjoa Jackson said. “These are our elderly people. How can you treat them that way?”

She was close to her mother-in-law, who was more like a true mother to her, she said.

“It was mom & daughter, just like I was born from her,” Adjoa Jackson said.

Lorna Barnes, a 64-year-old resident of the building, said she first complained to management about the heat on May 10, four days before the three women died.

“I even said to them, ‘I don’t want to die in my apartment,’” Barnes said, growing tearful.

Building management offered her fans and erroneously cited a Chicago heat ordinance, claiming it required the building to keep heat on until June 1, Barnes said. Barnes said she called Hadden, as well as the city’s 311 line.

“I was scared to go to sleep,” Barnes said. “I don’t have anywhere else to go.”

Hadden, who represents the ward the building is in, was first contacted by residents on Thursday and responded to the area, according to her staff members. She told the building managers that they needed to turn off the heat and turn on the air conditioning.

The managers responded in the same way they did to Barnes, incorrectly telling the alderman that the city’s heat ordinance requires the building to remain heated until June 1, Perkins said. The ordinance sets a daytime temperature requirement of at least 68 degrees from Sept. 15 to June 1, but has no requirement that the heat has to stay on if temperatures will naturally exceed that threshold.

The building eventually turned off the heat, but reported that it takes some time for its system to be able to switch over to air conditioning, Perkins said.

“Maybe we need to change some ordinances if common sense isn’t prevailing,” Hadden said in a video posted to her Facebook page.

In response to questions from the Tribune, the Hispanic Housing Development Corp., which manages the Rogers Park building, said in a statement that it is working with the city & conducting its own investigation.

“We are deeply saddened by the deaths of three residents at 7450 N. Rogers,” the statement said. “The safety and security of our residents has always been our highest priority.”

The 10-story structure was permitted for construction in 2002 with 120 units, city records showed. The website for the apartments advertises 24-hour on-call live-in maintenance, with heat & central air conditioning included in the rent.

The building passed an annual inspection in November 2021, & passed a complaint inspection in 2021 and a ventilation complaint inspection in 2019, with no code violations reported, city records showed.

Code violations listed in online city records dated to 2014 and earlier include failures to properly maintain elevators, install smoke detectors in some stairwells, & provide for testing of the fire pump.

The Department of Buildings had no record of any open violation at the site, but was working on a report of its findings from inspecting the building this past weekend, a spokesperson said. The department also issued a statement that the women’s tragic deaths “were felt by all Chicagoans.”

It noted that in larger properties, the switch between heating to cooling systems may take hours or days. If any residents are experiencing uncomfortably warm temperatures in their buildings, officials said, they should call both 311 & building management, & city officials will respond.

Barnes is now advocating for the city to pass a cooling ordinance & pursue other solutions that would protect people from increasingly extreme weather events.

“With climate change, we have more heat in the atmosphere and temperatures are going up,” said Daniel Horton, assistant professor in the department of earth and planetary sciences at Northwestern University. “That increases the likelihood of more frequent & more intense heat waves.”

Horton noted that heat waves during the spring & fall seasons, like the one experienced last week, can pose greater danger because people are less prepared than when they occur during the height of the summer.

Though the city has a heating ordinance that requires landlords maintain livable temperatures in the winter, there is no similar measure for the summer for most types of residences. The city requires air conditioning for nursing & assisted-living facilities, but there is no air conditioning requirement for typical residential buildings.

In 2020, Ald. George Cardenas introduced an ordinance requiring air conditioning in residential units. If landlords’ failed to provide cool air, tenants would be authorized to buy their own air conditioning & deduct it from their rent. Every residential unit would be required to be capable of cooling all habitable rooms to 79 degrees from June 8 to Sept. 8, according to the proposal. The ordinance remained in committee, though, & was not considered by the whole City Council.

Among other possible preventive measures: The city could develop a “heat vulnerability index,” which would use information from the National Weather Service & other demographical figures to determine who is most at risk during weather events & plan to protect those communities accordingly, Horton said. He also said communities can try to establish “social infrastructures” that would build systems where community members check on one another during adverse weather events like extreme heat.

Hadden’s resolution, which will be introduced at the City Council meeting next week, calls for a hearing that would involve testimony from residents as well as the Hispanic Housing Development Corp. It also calls for the participation of the city’s law & buildings departments & other agencies in order to investigate possible city-based solutions.

“Until you try to sleep in an oven, you will never understand what residents went through last week,” Barnes said.




Our apartment doesn't have AC & this building was built about 10 years ago. It's a 3 story apartment building & we use window AC units in the summer, late spring, & early fall. There were some days last year where the temps got to upper 90s & this is Vermont where I currently live. I'm not talking about f#cking Louisiana where I'm originally from. According to my parents the temps in Louisiana this summer are at the highest record ever or just under for each day. If their temps are not over 100, they're close. The temps were usually a bit cooler there when I was a kid & most all the houses, apartment buildings, & lots of office & store buildings as well that were being built then were being built with AC(my dad worked in construction till he retired a couple years ago & most all the homes & businesses he worked on had AC by the time they were finished being built). Lots of other areas need to adapt to these rising temps & make AC standard instead of a luxury.


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kraftiekortie
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14 Jul 2022, 9:20 am

It looks like this heatwave in the UK will last only two days.

On the 19th, it's supposed to go up to 34 Celsius in SE London

But on the 20th, it's only supposed to go up to 24.



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14 Jul 2022, 2:00 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It looks like this heatwave in the UK will last only two days.

Yay!
Quote:
On the 19th, it's supposed to go up to 34 Celsius in SE London
But on the 20th, it's only supposed to go up to 24.

Fortunately for us rebellious, and perhaps a bit obstinate, colonials, Google knows exactly what you want when you search for, or at least what I want when I search for, c to f, or conversely, f to c.
34C = 94.2F
24C = 75.2F


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15 Jul 2022, 7:29 pm

It now says it's going to reach 40 and that people are going to die, not just the vulnerable.

I'm so scared. Will that much damage be done from just 2 days of unusually scorching heat?

What if it affects the water supplies? All the stores have sold out of bottled water so that's out of the question, and I guess ordering bottled water online will make no difference as that's also probably what everyone else has done as well. Panic buying never works but dumb sheeple never learn that.

But it's going to be just 2 days. Will water supplies shut down in that short amount of time, or does it need to be 40 degrees for weeks for that to happen?

I don't think I will survive at work. It would be OK if the hottest days were going to be the weekend because then I could just cool off indoors, but now I can't. I nearly came over ill a couple of weeks ago at work when it was 32 degrees - and this was when I was drinking a lot of water to keep myself hydrated. So God knows how I/we're all going to be working in temperatures that has never happened in the UK before (apparently it's never reached higher than 40 here). Surely we can't run coaches and buses in this condition.

And this is the first time I have ever worried about the heat, as heat is my favourite weather in summer.


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15 Jul 2022, 7:57 pm

Aprilviolets wrote:
I remember asking the teacher at school if the temperature would ever reach 50 degrees and he said it couldn't because it would kill us all.
Little did we know back then in the 70's.


My primary teachers back in the 70s also had some wacky ideas (but I'll save that for another time).

Communities living in central Australia regularly cope with 50+ days over summer. I think it accelerates ageing (people from remote communities look really rough and haggard). People who live in the mining town of Coober Pedy in South Australia actually build underground houses to keep cool.



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16 Jul 2022, 12:26 am

Older homes in the Deep South all had high ceilings so the heat stayed up there.
Doors had transom windows so you could close them for privacy but still have a breeze.Windows and doors all lined up for the cross breeze.Porches also helped keep the heat off the sides off the house and many had separate cooking areas so the main house wouldn’t heat up.People favored white paint since it reflected heat and light colored roofing.Large shade trees were common.Politicians used to pass out hand fans with their name on them for hot days.
People have forgotten how to build homes to deal with no AC.Dark brick houses with dark roofs are the worst.Once they heat up they stay hot.


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16 Jul 2022, 2:37 am

Misslizard wrote:
People have forgotten how to build homes to deal with no AC.Dark brick houses with dark roofs are the worst.Once they heat up they stay hot.


Yes good point, In addition to high ceilings, the design would also include an open corridor between the front door and the back door to allow fresh cool air to circulate through the house.



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16 Jul 2022, 11:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
People have forgotten how to build homes to deal with no AC.Dark brick houses with dark roofs are the worst.Once they heat up they stay hot.


Yes good point, In addition to high ceilings, the design would also include an open corridor between the front door and the back door to allow fresh cool air to circulate through the house.

When we finished this house I made sure of that corridor and lined the windows up to circulate the air.
An older hippie came to visit one day and asked if I had a Feng Shui expect lay it out.
Not only does it remove heat but negative energy haha.
If I were to build again ,it would be an old time Dogtrot house.The name is because dogs like to lay in the breezeway.
Image


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16 Jul 2022, 2:17 pm

Prediction:

Most will survive just fine, a bunch will get heatstroke and feel unwell, and possibly a few thousand elderly people will perish. Several hundred at least, but it could be a few thousand. I'm basing this on the fact that the UK is a very small area with quite a high population of people living in small homes with no cooling technologies. We had several hundred die from the heat in BC alone last year.. so a few thousand deaths of seniors from an extreme heatwave in the UK seems quite plausible. I will be pleasantly surprised if fewer than 1,000 elderly people die from this.


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16 Jul 2022, 2:26 pm

I'm thinking they'll call the horse racing off on Monday.


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16 Jul 2022, 3:17 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Prediction:

Most will survive just fine, a bunch will get heatstroke and feel unwell, and possibly a few thousand elderly people will perish. Several hundred at least, but it could be a few thousand. I'm basing this on the fact that the UK is a very small area with quite a high population of people living in small homes with no cooling technologies. We had several hundred die from the heat in BC alone last year.. so a few thousand deaths of seniors from an extreme heatwave in the UK seems quite plausible. I will be pleasantly surprised if fewer than 1,000 elderly people die from this.


That's frightening to someone who is elderly then. I hope my beloved grandmother will be OK.

When I used to work at a care home I was told not to open the windows because the elderly patients still might get hypothermia - in 30+ Celsius temperatures. Yes I understand the elderly are frail and some suffer from physical underlying illnesses that may make them more vulnerable to feeling cold, and most sit around and not move much, BUT in extreme heat...hypothermia...seriously?
So yeah, probably no need to worry about the elderly there.


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16 Jul 2022, 8:48 pm

Bottled water? :?

Do you not have indoor plumbing and taps fed by large water reservoirs? :?


During a heat wave here about 4 years ago I was working outdoors in full sun no shade w/ steel toed boots jeans high vis vest and hard hat cleaning up an excavation pit - hauling lumber around by hand and wheelbarrow.. in 37C heat. I drank approx 8L of water per day. I was earning barely over minimum wage working for a temp agency at the time, too.. and after a couple weeks of that I phoned our Union rep and asked him to rescue me and give me any indoor work they had anywhere. :lol:

Heatwaves are totally survivable - especially for young adults in reasonable health.

As the earth warms up people will adapt. It’s predicted that 1.1-1.3 BILLION ppl will have to migrate in search of inhabitable climate with enough water and food. Other places that warm up will adapt with cooling technologies, different clothing, and a shift in work practices to early morning/night shifts. If it becomes unbearable to construct things by day, building will happen at night. Etc.



Elderly with pre-existing health conditions like heart and blood pressure problems are most likely to perish.


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17 Jul 2022, 3:49 am

Quote:
Do you not have indoor plumbing and taps fed by large water reservoirs? :?


I did say that I'm worried about the water supplies being affected so there'll be no water coming out of our taps. Will this happen?


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