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Twilightprincess
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16 Jul 2022, 6:58 pm

I’m not sure if this has been discussed on here, so sorry if this thread is redundant.

I recently toured the Capitol Building with my son and was surprised to learn that a statue of Billy Graham is going in to represent NC. (Each state can have 2 statues there to represent their state.)

This seems like a really odd choice although it’s apparently better than who they had before: Charles Aycock - a white supremacist governor.

https://www.carolinacoastonline.com/reg ... a2104.html

I was also a bit surprised to see Confederate leaders still so well represented.

Anyway, what are your thoughts about having such notorious people in the Capitol Building?


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naturalplastic
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16 Jul 2022, 7:13 pm

Whats wrong with Billy Graham? I mean as a subject to be honored with a statue in the Capitol Rotunda.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 16 Jul 2022, 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DanielW
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16 Jul 2022, 7:14 pm

Hopefully when all the statues have been collected, it will be forever closed to the public.



cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 7:19 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I was also a bit surprised to see Confederate leaders still so well represented.


I would be more concerned about this ^ rather the Billy Graham



naturalplastic
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16 Jul 2022, 7:32 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I was also a bit surprised to see Confederate leaders still so well represented.


I would be more concerned about this ^ rather the Billy Graham

Yes. Honoring what were essentially traitors (who tried to break away from the nation) alongside actual patriots with statuary displayed in the seat of the central government is an odd thing for a nation to do.



Twilightprincess
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16 Jul 2022, 7:43 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Whats wrong with Billy Graham? I mean as a subject to be honored with a statue in the Capitol Rotunda.


He wasn’t good towards the LGBT+ community.

“Let me say this loud and clear!” Graham responded to a young woman who wrote to him in 1974 confessing her love for another woman. “We traffic in homosexuality at the peril of our spiritual welfare.” This was after Graham had claimed homosexuality to be a “sinister form of perversion” that was contributing to the decay of civilization.

Graham also spoke out on the subject of the AIDS crisis, telling a record-breaking crowd of 44,300 in Cooper Stadium in Columbus, Ohio, in 1993, “Is AIDS a judgment of God? I could not be sure, but I think so.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna850031

Apart from this, I think it’s weird to have a purely religious figure in the Capitol Building because of the ideal of separation of church and state.


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Last edited by Twilightprincess on 16 Jul 2022, 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Twilightprincess
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16 Jul 2022, 7:46 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I was also a bit surprised to see Confederate leaders still so well represented.


I would be more concerned about this ^ rather the Billy Graham


Yes, I agree.

I didn’t focus on it because I assumed that people already knew about it. I’m very uninformed, so I have no idea how informed other people are or whether topics are widely known or not.


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Twilightprincess
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16 Jul 2022, 7:49 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I was also a bit surprised to see Confederate leaders still so well represented.


I would be more concerned about this ^ rather the Billy Graham

Yes. Honoring what were essentially traitors (who tried to break away from the nation) alongside actual patriots with statuary displayed in the seat of the central government is an odd thing for a nation to do.


States have a lot of freedom to pick what they want to. I think it’s too much freedom because they obviously can’t handle it if they are going to make such piss-poor choices.


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Last edited by Twilightprincess on 16 Jul 2022, 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 7:53 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Whats wrong with Billy Graham? I mean as a subject to be honored with a statue in the Capitol Rotunda.


He wasn’t good towards the LGBT+ community.

“Let me say this loud and clear!” Graham responded to a young woman who wrote to him in 1974 confessing her love for another woman. “We traffic in homosexuality at the peril of our spiritual welfare.” This was after Graham had claimed homosexuality to be a “sinister form of perversion” that was contributing to the decay of civilization.

Graham also spoke out on the subject of the AIDS crisis, telling a record-breaking crowd of 44,300 in Cooper Stadium in Columbus, Ohio, in 1993, “Is AIDS a judgment of God? I could not be sure, but I think so.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna850031

Apart from this, I think it’s weird to have a purely religious figure in the Capitol Building because of the ideal of separation of church and state.


It's hardly surprising that republican supporters had their way the capitol would be surrounded by statues to killers of native Americans, slave owners, segregationists, confederates and christian fundamentalists.



cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 7:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Yes. Honoring what were essentially traitors (who tried to break away from the nation) alongside actual patriots with statuary displayed in the seat of the central government is an odd thing for a nation to do.


It seems honoring confederate figureheads is like throwing support for your favourite football team.



Twilightprincess
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16 Jul 2022, 7:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Whats wrong with Billy Graham? I mean as a subject to be honored with a statue in the Capitol Rotunda.


He wasn’t good towards the LGBT+ community.

“Let me say this loud and clear!” Graham responded to a young woman who wrote to him in 1974 confessing her love for another woman. “We traffic in homosexuality at the peril of our spiritual welfare.” This was after Graham had claimed homosexuality to be a “sinister form of perversion” that was contributing to the decay of civilization.

Graham also spoke out on the subject of the AIDS crisis, telling a record-breaking crowd of 44,300 in Cooper Stadium in Columbus, Ohio, in 1993, “Is AIDS a judgment of God? I could not be sure, but I think so.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna850031

Apart from this, I think it’s weird to have a purely religious figure in the Capitol Building because of the ideal of separation of church and state.


It's hardly surprising that republican supporters had their way the capitol would be surrounded by statues to killers of native Americans, slave owners, segregationists, confederates and christian fundamentalists.


They have some art which depicts dehumanized Native Americans being killed. The tour guide did a good job of sensitively and straightforwardly talking about our problematic history and explaining why they were depicted that way in art, but with the Confederate stuff, it was mentioned and the topic was immediately (and awkwardly) changed. I’d imagine they are trying to avoid causing waves with a certain group of people who could potentially be touring…


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Twilightprincess
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16 Jul 2022, 8:07 pm

DanielW wrote:
Hopefully when all the statues have been collected, it will be forever closed to the public.


I wouldn’t want them to close. It is a beautiful building, and it’s interesting from a historical standpoint.


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cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 8:29 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
They have some art which depicts dehumanized Native Americans being killed. The tour guide did a good job of sensitively and straightforwardly talking about our problematic history and explaining why they were depicted that way in art, but with the Confederate stuff, it was mentioned and the topic was immediately (and awkwardly) changed. I’d imagine they are trying to avoid causing waves with a certain group of people who could potentially be touring…


This harks back to classical era where the Romans would depict their "valiant" soldiers vanquishing their enemies. I've seen artwork in Mexico and South America depicting native people kneeling before Spanish conquistadors as homage the conquerers.

In our modern era such artwork serves to remind people of historic events that actually most decent people don't want to glorify so it probably belongs in the back room of a museum.



Twilightprincess
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16 Jul 2022, 8:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
They have some art which depicts dehumanized Native Americans being killed. The tour guide did a good job of sensitively and straightforwardly talking about our problematic history and explaining why they were depicted that way in art, but with the Confederate stuff, it was mentioned and the topic was immediately (and awkwardly) changed. I’d imagine they are trying to avoid causing waves with a certain group of people who could potentially be touring…


This harks back to classical era where the Romans would depict their "valiant" soldiers vanquishing their enemies. I've seen artwork in Mexico and South America depicting native people kneeling before Spanish conquistadors as homage the conquerers.

In our modern era such artwork serves to remind people of historic events that actually most decent people don't want to glorify so it probably belongs in the back room of a museum.


I don’t think anyone is glorifying the vanquishing of Native Americans. Seeing such art is unsettling. It makes the settlers look bad, not the Native Americans. It could be good to remember such troubled history. Of course, I suppose some glory in Nazi propaganda films rather than look at it like a normal person.

Many still glorify the Confederacy. Statues of Confederate heroes is way off-the-mark.


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cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 8:46 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t think anyone is glorifying the vanquishing of Native Americans. Seeing such art is unsettling. It makes the settlers look bad, not the Native Americans. It could be good to remember such troubled history.

Many still glorify the Confederacy. Statues of Confederate heroes is way off-the-mark.


75 million Americans voted for a leadership that wanted to return America to its past glory. This cohort is not unique, We have probably many millions in Australia (and shared with Canada and New Zealand) who are proud of their settler ancestry and don't mind the image of their settler ancestors defending their homesteads. Their survival and persistence are celebrated (lets not pretend they are ashamed of them).

The image of the vanquished native was acceptable and even celebrated until only very recently in our shared histories.



Twilightprincess
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16 Jul 2022, 8:51 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t think anyone is glorifying the vanquishing of Native Americans. Seeing such art is unsettling. It makes the settlers look bad, not the Native Americans. It could be good to remember such troubled history.

Many still glorify the Confederacy. Statues of Confederate heroes is way off-the-mark.


75 million Americans voted for a leadership that wanted to return America to its past glory. This cohort is not unique, We have probably many millions in Australia (and shared with Canada and New Zealand) who are proud of their settler ancestry and don't mind the image of their settler ancestors defending their homesteads. Their survival and persistence are celebrated (lets not pretend they are ashamed of them).

The image of the vanquished native was acceptable and even celebrated until only very recently in our shared histories.


Americans don’t think of Native Americans that often. If it wasn’t for our pervasive issues with racism towards African Americans, we’d probably think about them more.

There are several statues of specific Native Americans in the Capitol Building.


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