Outrage as ‘China propaganda’ star handed ESPYS honour

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MaxE
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25 Jul 2022, 9:04 pm

In the US, Meghan Markle is also considered glamorous.
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cyberdad
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26 Jul 2022, 2:51 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Think of how long it took, but also...


I will probably get in trouble for saying this but I suspect while a majority of American men would find Zendaya attractive they wouldn't date her or bring her to meet their friends or family.

And it's not just white folks
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... eek-nation
https://www.npr.org/2011/09/20/14063056 ... els-blacks



funeralxempire
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26 Jul 2022, 7:19 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Think of how long it took, but also...


I will probably get in trouble for saying this but I suspect while a majority of American men would find Zendaya attractive they wouldn't date her or bring her to meet their friends or family.

And it's not just white folks
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... eek-nation
https://www.npr.org/2011/09/20/14063056 ... els-blacks


I'm not entirely sure a legal battle over tribal sovereignty is quite related to whether or not anti-black racism is limited to only white people.

Cherokee and Creek peoples had their legal right to define their citizenry violated because they supported the traitors in the US Civil War. That matter is at the core of the issue you're choosing to use as your example and if you don't understand that aspect it greatly undermines your overall understanding of the situation.

If they don't fight that matter the concept of tribal sovereignty is forever weakened by accepting the precedent that the US Federal government can force them to redefine who qualifies as a citizen.

The US Federal government can resolve the issue simply by allowing the descendents of Cherokee and Creek Freedmen to form their own recognized nations, this would bypass any questions of tribal sovereignty. Effectively this is the US federal government failing and trying to pass the buck.


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cyberdad
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26 Jul 2022, 7:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Cherokee and Creek peoples had their legal right to define their citizenry violated because they supported the traitors in the US Civil War. That matter is at the core of the issue you're choosing to use as your example and if you don't understand that aspect it greatly undermines your overall understanding of the situation.
.


I have followed native history in north America over the years (however, as with skinned wolf I don't have the lived experience you have had) and I have observed examples of how tribes are very selective over whom they allow as members. I have also observed this selectivity is particular severe when applied to descendants who are visibly African.

However, I appreciate there are parallel issues over sovereignty and native rights that to them supersede issues over membership and identity.

But as with my example of Eileen Gu Vs Naomi Osaka, I am sure there is a specific phenotype that native people identify with and it's really not that earth shattering or surprising that somebody who looks like Emma Stone would be more welcome to join a tribe than say Viola Davis even if they both had similar levels of native ancestry. The links I posted suggest this is certainly the case.



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26 Jul 2022, 8:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I am sure there is a specific phenotype that native people identify with and it's really not that earth shattering or surprising that somebody who looks like Emma Stone would be more welcome to join a tribe than say Viola Davis even if they both had similar levels of native ancestry. The links I posted suggest this is certainly the case.


See, if you had a case of someone on their tribal list having a kid with black ancestry and being denied their rightful place you might have a point, but that's not what's being discussed so your conclusions aren't actually correct.

You can't reach a reasonable conclusion if your premise is wrong. And since you're still demonstrating that failure to understand or appreciate the core issue your conclusions are doomed to also be incorrect.

Essentially they've sought to undo a change that was forced upon them. The human costs for the people impacted is significant and unfair but also something the US Federal Government ought to address since they're the party that was wrong all along.

They're entitled to undo that illegitimate change that was imposed upon them because it was never acceptable to impose it in the first place.

None of that inherently says anything about how the mixed child of a current member might be treated on the basis of their ethnic background. None of that even says anything about how the mixed child of Freemen and current members might be treated.

You're reaching to the point your evidence tears. It's too much of a stretch. :nerdy:


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cyberdad
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26 Jul 2022, 11:21 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
You're reaching to the point your evidence tears. It's too much of a stretch. :nerdy:


Agreed, it's too complicated and off topic to handle in a thread like this.

Let's go back to Eileen Gu



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27 Jul 2022, 4:52 am

cyberdad wrote:
Let's go back to Eileen Gu

I missed you guys!
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cyberdad
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27 Jul 2022, 6:17 am

MaxE wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Let's go back to Eileen Gu

I missed you guys!
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She's beautiful, successful and rich and talented sportswoman.

Eileen Gu: 4
Cyberdad: 0