Asperger Syndrome and dealing with disagreement

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Fnord
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25 Jul 2022, 12:27 pm

klanka wrote:
Apple cider vinegar forms alkaline in the body.
Evidence -- Medical evidence, published by appropriately-trained and licensed Medical professionals -- please?

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klanka
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25 Jul 2022, 12:29 pm

It's consistent that if I don't drink it (or eat alkaline forming foods) I start sneezing 100 times per day in the summer.

It's really up to someone who suffers from asthma or allergies to see for themselves.

Only believing things that are in scientific papers would have you smoking cigarettes at a certain point in history.



Last edited by klanka on 25 Jul 2022, 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Twilightprincess
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25 Jul 2022, 12:30 pm

klanka wrote:
It's consistent that if I don't drink it (or eat alkaline forming foods) I start sneezing 100 times per day in the summer.


It could be psychosomatic.


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Twilightprincess
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25 Jul 2022, 12:34 pm

The usual suspects: apple cider vinegar, essential oils, and homeopathy.

I knew someone who thought her cancer was cured by apple cider vinegar. She was “diagnosed” by a naturopathic “doctor,” so she probably never had cancer to begin with.

My cousin sells essential oils.

My family uses homeopathy.

The thought of this stuff raises my blood pressure.


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Fnord
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25 Jul 2022, 12:44 pm

klanka wrote:
It's consistent that if I don't drink it (or eat alkaline forming foods) I start sneezing 100 times per day in the summer.  It's really up to someone who suffers from asthma or allergies to see for themselves.  Only believing things that are in scientific papers would have you smoking cigarettes at a certain point in history.
Summer is hay fever season.

I have asthma and allergies.  My parents inflicted numerous quack "cures" on me, including vinegars, all to no effect.

Believing things that are in scientific papers would have stopped tobacco production, were it not for the immense profits obtained from tobacco products -- Big Tobacco (among others) practically owns the U.S. Senate, these days.

If you have no proof, just admit it.  If you have only YouTube videos, just forget it.  Never let YouTube videos do your thinking for you.



Last edited by Fnord on 25 Jul 2022, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KitLily
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25 Jul 2022, 12:45 pm

I have learned that when someone is attacking me saying, 'You did this! You made me do that!' to stick to facts. 'I said XYZ. You did ABC.'

It's hard but possible.

Re: health problems. I have been advised all my life what to do about my own health problems and told 'this shouldn't happen. That shouldn't happen' by doctors. I obeyed their advice but often it didn't help. Things that shouldn't happen to my body did so.

They've tested me for all sorts of things e.g. abnormal blood sugar levels, gluten and dairy intolerance. All tests came up 'normal.' Yet I have had to find out how to deal with problems myself e.g. I get severe side effects from consuming gluten and dairy produce, so I have found alternatives and my health has improved more than I ever thought possible.

I learned to take doctors' advice with a pinch of salt and do what was best for me and my body. I often wonder if I am an alien because my body doesn't do what they say it should.


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Twilightprincess
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25 Jul 2022, 12:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
I have asthma and allergies.  My parents inflicted numerous quack "cures" on me, including vinegars, all to no effect.


My parents did this, too. Usually, they wanted to see if I would get better with homeopathy before taking me to the doctor. It sucked.


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Fnord
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25 Jul 2022, 12:53 pm

klanka wrote:
For example: Scientific studies say that steroids are the best treatment for asthma. I changed my diet and my asthma is gone. I can't cite any scientific studies for that and someone could come along and say 'anecdotal evidence!'
You have not read many scientific studies, have you?

SOME scientific studies indicate steroids are best for SOME types of asthma, SOME scientific studies indicate adjusting one's diet is best for SOME types of asthma, SOME scientific studies indicate breathing air only after it has been run through a HEPA filter is best for SOME types of asthma, and SOME scientific studies indicate avoiding common household pets is best for SOME types of asthma.

There are other studies that indicate the best treatments for other types of asthma too.

Implying that scientific studies focused on only one type of asthma and one type of treatment for it is misleading.



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25 Jul 2022, 12:58 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have asthma and allergies.  My parents inflicted numerous quack "cures" on me, including vinegars, all to no effect.
My parents did this, too. Usually, they wanted to see if I would get better with homeopathy before taking me to the doctor. It sucked.
My dad was a cheapskate, and my mother was raised on a farm.  Both came from rural people who had limited access to real medical science, so they used trial-and-error to determine which folk remedy would cure me.  None were effective.

It was not until I was on my own and convinced a real doctor to refer me to a real allergy specialist that I found out all the real causes of my asthma and the most effective real treatments for it (none of which involve vinegar and that Ph bushlit).



Last edited by Fnord on 25 Jul 2022, 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

klanka
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25 Jul 2022, 1:03 pm

well, https://www.history.com/news/cigarette- ... ndorsement

this shows you cant just blindly go along with what studies are saying. I can sense a lot of aggression in your posts Fnord and usually you go into other threads and do indirect attacks, like in an unrelated thread you'll say soemthing like 'SOME people think alkaline foods cure asthma!!' as an attack but getting away with it because its not direct. It sucks.

i did have you blocked beacuse of that behavior but I changed browsers. Getting ready to install greasemonkey again



Fnord
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25 Jul 2022, 1:06 pm

klanka wrote:
well, https://www.history.com/news/cigarette- ... ndorsement

this shows you cant just blindly go along with what studies are saying. I can sense a lot of aggression in your posts Fnord and usually you go into other threads and do indirect attacks, like in an unrelated thread you'll say soemthing like 'SOME people think alkaline foods cure asthma!!' as an attack but getting away with it because its not direct. It sucks.
That advertisement is over 50 years old, and proves nothing but the greed of Big Tobacco and how they exploited the ignorance of the tobacco-consuming public.

I notice you still have not provided medical evidence to prove your claims about vinegar.  I also notice you are starting to resort to personal attacks instead.

"When they cannot refute the message, they try to destroy the messenger." -- both my debate coach and my lawyer



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25 Jul 2022, 1:08 pm

Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have asthma and allergies.  My parents inflicted numerous quack "cures" on me, including vinegars, all to no effect.
My parents did this, too. Usually, they wanted to see if I would get better with homeopathy before taking me to the doctor. It sucked.
My dad was a cheapskate, and my mother was raised on a farm.  Both came from rural people who had limited access to real medical science, so they used trial-and-error to determine which folk remedy would cure me.

It was not until I was on my own and convinced a real doctor to refer me to a real allergy specialist that I found out all the real causes of my asthma and the most effective real treatments for it (none of which involve vinegar and that Ph bushlit).


My family was suspicious of scientific knowledge and doctors for religious reasons. They’d also use the standard: “doctors want you to be sick to make money,” “you can’t trust research because it’s skewed/faked by big pharma,” and “specific homeopathic cures are valid because I know [some guy or gal] that they helped.”

They also love stories where some doctor made a mistake.

Sometimes I feel like they are almost going out of their way to commit as many logical fallacies as they can in as short amount of time as possible.


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25 Jul 2022, 1:22 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have asthma and allergies.  My parents inflicted numerous quack "cures" on me, including vinegars, all to no effect.
My parents did this, too. Usually, they wanted to see if I would get better with homeopathy before taking me to the doctor. It sucked.
My dad was a cheapskate, and my mother was raised on a farm.  Both came from rural people who had limited access to real medical science, so they used trial-and-error to determine which folk remedy would cure me.  It was not until I was on my own and convinced a real doctor to refer me to a real allergy specialist that I found out all the real causes of my asthma and the most effective real treatments for it (none of which involve vinegar and that Ph bushlit).
My family was suspicious of scientific knowledge and doctors for religious reasons. They’d also use the standard: “doctors want you to be sick to make money,” “you can’t trust research because it’s skewed/faked by big pharma,” and “specific homeopathic cures are valid because I know [some guy or gal] that they helped.”

They also love stories where some doctor made a mistake.

Sometimes I feel like they are almost going out of their way to commit as many logical fallacies as they can in as short amount of time as possible.
My dad was among those who believed the same "doctors want to get wealthy by keeping you sick" crap.  My mom and many of her relatives had faith that "the old ways are best".  I still flinch whenever I remember having vinegar poured onto my raw, open eczema sores, having them wrapped in linen bandages, and then trying to remove the bandages after the blood had clotted.

My allergies are now controlled by diet, vitamin supplements, and a single prescription medication that was still experimental about a decade ago.

As for this thread's topic, I will disagree with any attempt to push any quack "cures" or folk "remedies", because science overrides superstition every time.



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25 Jul 2022, 1:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have asthma and allergies.  My parents inflicted numerous quack "cures" on me, including vinegars, all to no effect.
My parents did this, too. Usually, they wanted to see if I would get better with homeopathy before taking me to the doctor. It sucked.
My dad was a cheapskate, and my mother was raised on a farm.  Both came from rural people who had limited access to real medical science, so they used trial-and-error to determine which folk remedy would cure me.  It was not until I was on my own and convinced a real doctor to refer me to a real allergy specialist that I found out all the real causes of my asthma and the most effective real treatments for it (none of which involve vinegar and that Ph bushlit).
My family was suspicious of scientific knowledge and doctors for religious reasons. They’d also use the standard: “doctors want you to be sick to make money,” “you can’t trust research because it’s skewed/faked by big pharma,” and “specific homeopathic cures are valid because I know [some guy or gal] that they helped.”

They also love stories where some doctor made a mistake.

Sometimes I feel like they are almost going out of their way to commit as many logical fallacies as they can in as short amount of time as possible.
My dad was among those who believed the same "doctors want to get wealthy by keeping you sick" crap.  My mom and many of her relatives had faith that "the old ways are best".  I still flinch whenever I remember having vinegar poured onto my raw, open eczema sores, having them wrapped in linen bandages, and then trying to remove the bandages after the blood had clotted.


Ouch! I remember them doing something similar with my cousin’s acne.

I never experienced anything that bad. I often wanted to go to the doctor because I knew that if my problem warranted antibiotics, which it often did, then I’d be better in a few days rather than prolonging it indefinitely.

Quote:
As for this thread's topic, I will disagree with any attempt to push any quack "cures" or folk "remedies", because science overrides superstition every time.


Agreed. I think it’s important to stop the spread of misinformation.


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kraftiekortie
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25 Jul 2022, 10:57 pm

I believe doctors have paramount and thorough knowledge.

But I also believe, at times, that one might know one’s own body better than a doctor.

Saying this, I do rely on doctors for medical advice.



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26 Jul 2022, 8:36 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
But I also believe, at times, that one might know one’s own body better than a doctor.


I think it’s important to know one’s body in order to recognize symptoms.

Sometimes stuff doesn’t warrant a trip to the doctor’s office - like a headache or sore muscles. In those cases, it makes sense to go with a remedy that’s been proven effective, like a mild painkiller, rather than some folk remedy.


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