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Dox47
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04 Sep 2022, 10:10 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... kiwifarms/

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SAN FRANCISCO — Reversing course under growing public pressure, major tech security company Cloudflare announced Saturday that it will stop protecting the Kiwi Farms website, best known as a place for stalkers to organize hacks, online campaigns and real-world harassment.

Cloudflare Chief Executive Matthew Prince, who this past week published a lengthy blog post justifying the company’s services defending websites such as Kiwi Farms, told The Washington Post he changed his mind not because of the pressure but a surge in credible violent threats stemming from the site.

“As Kiwi Farms has felt more threatened, they have reacted by being more threatening,” Prince said. “We think there is an imminent danger, and the pace at which law enforcement is able to respond to those threats we don’t think is fast enough to keep up.”

Prince said contributors to the forum were posting home addresses of those seen as enemies and calling for them to be shot.

After Cloudflare’s move, visitors to Kiwi Farms were greeted by this message: “Due to an imminent and emergency threat to human life, the content of this site is blocked from being accessed through Cloudflare’s infrastructure.”

In a post on Telegram, Kiwi Farm’s founder, Josh Moon, said Cloudflare made its decision “without any discussion” and said he had not been contacted by law enforcement about threats on the site. “It’s early morning hours here,” the post said. “My thoughts will be articulated better in the morning.”

Kiwi Farms launched in 2013 and quickly grew into a popular internet forum for online harassment campaigns. At least three suicides have been tied to harassment stemming from the Kiwi Farms community, and many on the forum consider their goal to drive their targets to suicide. Members of the LGBTQ community and women are frequent targets.

Cloudflare has faced broad backlash in the past week as a campaign for it to drop the service gained steam and widened to pressure paying customers to drop Cloudflare if it held firm. The company says it provides some services, mostly for free, that protect nearly a fifth of all internet traffic.

On Aug. 24, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) called for Kiwi Farms to be taken down after she was swatted by a person claiming to be affiliated with the site. “Isn’t it concerning that such a website exists?” Greene said in an interview with Newsmax. “That website needs to be taken down. There should be no business or any kind of service where you can target your enemy."

It was around then that the company stopped selling Kiwi Farms a $20 per month service to customize error messages shown to web users when its pages wouldn’t load. On Saturday, it withdrew the remaining free services, which fend off denial-of-service attacks and speed content delivery by making copies of the site in many locations.

Clara Sorrenti, a trans Canadian Twitch streamer known online as Keffals, launched the #DropKiwiFarms campaign after being targeted by Kiwi Farms posters for over half a year.

Forum users had repeatedly doxed Sorrenti and her family, posting addresses and more, and last month they called in false crime reports to draw police to her home in “swatting” attacks. Sorrenti fled to Northern Ireland late last month, and within 48 hours users of the forum had pinpointed her location and she began receiving threats.

On Saturday, she spoke with The Post just minutes after police had arrived at her residence after another swatting attempt.

“There are countless people suffering because of this website,” Sorrenti said. “Kiwi Farms isn’t about free speech, it’s about hate speech. The majority of the content on the site is threads used for targeted harassment against political targets.”

Sorrenti’s campaign against Cloudflare went viral in the past several days, with organizations and influencers joining in the call to ban Kiwi Farms from Cloudflare’s service. The Anti-Defamation League called Kiwi Farms an “extremist-friendly forum that has been the breeding ground for countless harassment campaigns.”

In the interview, Prince said he was uncomfortable dropping Kiwi Farms despite its content and would have preferred to have done so only in response to a court order.

But he said it was an easier call than his previous decisions to drop neo-Nazi site the Daily Stormer and the 8chan website because those two were not hotbeds for specific violent plots.

In a post Wednesday, Prince and another executive had written that they saw providing basic security and caching services as infrastructure, like internet connectivity, and should not be held responsible for content without judicial proceedings. They contrasted that with website hosting, which they said should have increased responsibility and discretion.

Prince said Saturday he stands by that reasoning, and he wrote in a new post that dropping Kiwi Farms was a “dangerous” decision. He added in the interview that it might provoke forum users to escalate even more, and that the forum would likely reappear online with help from Cloudflare competitors.

“This may largely kick the problem down the road and worse, might even escalate as the posters at Kiwi Farms feel attacked,” Prince told The Post.

Some technology experts supported Cloudflare’s resistance to acting. Daphne Keller, director of the Program on Platform Regulation at Stanford’s Cyber Policy Center, cited recent arm-twisting at Facebook by the current government of India over content from political opponents.

“The question is, which parts of the technical `stack’ of the internet are supposed to be neutral, which ones are supposed to moderate content, and is there some intermediate set of obligations that should apply to the middle layers?” Keller told The Post.

But a large swath of technologists disagreed with the previous stance. On Friday, Stanford University’s Alex Stamos wrote on Twitter that the position to keep serving Kiwi Farms was “not tenable.”

“Soon a doctor, activist or trans person is going to get doxxed and killed or a mass shooter is going to be inspired there. The investigation will show the killer’s links to the site, and Cloudflare’s enterprise base will evaporate,” Stamos wrote.

Prince said in the interview he couldn’t provide the number of new threats he had seen on Kiwi Farms, but he said they had escalated rapidly alongside the criticism of the forum. He said the company had shared specifics with the FBI and law enforcement in the United Kingdom and Australia, but that none of those agencies had asked him, even informally, to drop Kiwi Farms.

Broader concerns about violent organizing online have been climbing for years, accelerating after the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol. Law enforcement and intelligence warnings have also pointed to potential violence around the November elections, or even sooner, as former president Donald Trump has compared the FBI and other institutions to organized crime.

Incitement by others online over gender issues has inspired recent threats against children’s hospitals.

Moon, Kiwi Farm founder, is a former administrator of 8chan, a forum popularized by followers of the QAnon extremist ideology. After hosting a video of the Christchurch mosque shootings in 2019 that killed 51, New Zealand internet service providers blocked Kiwi Farms after Moon denied a police request for information on posts related to the shooting.

Last July, Kiwi Farms was booted from its domain registrar, DreamHost, following the suicide of a software developer called Near, who was a longtime target of the site’s user base.

“Like many trans people coming out as having been targeted by this site, I too was targeted by Kiwifarms,” Erin Reed, a trans activist and content creator, tweeted on Saturday. “They showed up at my local courthouse to grab my divorce files. They posted Google images of my house. They try to scare trans people into silence.”

But Chelsea Manning, a trans activist, offered a more nuanced opinion. “I don’t think long term the solution to this kind of dangerous speech is to ask hosting providers to have to take these things down," she told The Post. "We need a more balanced and measured long-term approach.”


I suppose congratulations are in order for a certain segment of WP, who have long wanted to see that board shut down. Personally, I really don't like this pattern of web infrastructure companies pulling the rug out from under sites due to public/political pressure, I think that's incredibly dangerous and can lead to some very bad results long term. Also, KF is a very useful resource on certain subjects, say what you will about the ethics of what they do, but there's information on there that isn't available anywhere else and that tends to check out.


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04 Sep 2022, 10:24 am

While I understand the situation, I do not see a problem. What Cloudflare has done is no worse than what any other social website does when one of its members refuses to conform to its rules and/or standards of behavior.

It even bears resemblance to a homeowner kicking out a guest who has started threatening others, both inside and outside his home.

I am sure the blocked website will find another toxic hosting service, like maybe the same one that hosts Trump’s “Truth Social”.

Blocking Kiwifarms
09/03/2022

We have blocked Kiwifarms. Visitors to any of the Kiwifarms sites that use any of Cloudflare's services will see a Cloudflare block page and a link to this post. Kiwifarms may move their sites to other providers and, in doing so, come back online, but we have taken steps to block their content from being accessed through our infrastructure.

This is an extraordinary decision for us to make and, given Cloudflare's role as an Internet infrastructure provider, a dangerous one that we are not comfortable with. However, the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before.


For more details, please see:
This Webpage


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04 Sep 2022, 10:48 am

What possible 'information' could kiwi farms give you access to?

Besides lessons in "how to be an as*hole 101", "Intermediate Assholery", and "Advanced Assholery"?

And Cloudfare is not the government. Its privately owned. So its their privilege to drop whomever.



Dox47
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04 Sep 2022, 10:58 am

naturalplastic wrote:
What possible 'information' could kiwi farms give you access to?


The kinds people don't want found out. It's a great resource for untangling internet drama, especially if someone is trying to deny having said or done something in the past and is actively attempting to cover it up, Kiwi Farms likely has a screenshot or some other proof.

naturalplastic wrote:
Besides lessons in "how to be an as*hole 101", "Intermediate Assholery", and "Advanced Assholery"?


I find that those classes are available all over the internet, even on this very board.

naturalplastic wrote:
And Cloudfare is not the government. Its privately owned. So its their privilege to drop whomever.


I didn't say it wasn't, I said I don't like it.


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itscomplicated
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04 Sep 2022, 11:57 am

how do you find other boards like it ? which other boards are there that are active? i personally dont like the layout of Reddit and how old posts expire but can tolerate it



Dox47
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04 Sep 2022, 12:23 pm

According to what I'm hearing, it sounds like the post that got it taken down was something posted from a burner account that was quickly moderated, so it looks like this is more about Cloudflare backing away from a controversial client in the face of public criticism. Again, a dangerous precedent.


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04 Sep 2022, 12:42 pm

itscomplicated wrote:
how do you find other boards like it ? which other boards are there that are active? i personally dont like the layout of Reddit and how old posts expire but can tolerate it


anyone



Dox47
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04 Sep 2022, 12:58 pm

itscomplicated wrote:
how do you find other boards like it ? which other boards are there that are active? i personally dont like the layout of Reddit and how old posts expire but can tolerate it


Like it in what way? The specific layout and format, the content, what they're focused on?


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04 Sep 2022, 1:01 pm

Dox47 wrote:
itscomplicated wrote:
how do you find other boards like it ? which other boards are there that are active? i personally dont like the layout of Reddit and how old posts expire but can tolerate it


Like it in what way? The specific layout and format, the content, what they're focused on?


the same or similar kind of content. whats the difference between that and what theyre focused on? dont care too much about layout



Dox47
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04 Sep 2022, 1:52 pm

itscomplicated wrote:
the same or similar kind of content. whats the difference between that and what theyre focused on? dont care too much about layout


Either of the chans or some of the r/drama groups are probably close to what you're looking for, KF was useful in being so ridiculously meticulous, I'm not sure that there is a direct analog out there.


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Dox47
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04 Sep 2022, 2:16 pm

I'd be really curious to know how much of a common membership there is between all of the online drama sites, which stereotypically skew autistic, and supports sites like this one, they sure do seem to know where to find the lolcows. It's funny how the AS community is likely on both sides as perpetrators and victims, as we're both focused and obsessive enough to ferret out all of the little details of online drama, and self serious and unaware enough to draw that kind of attention in the first place. That's the kind of thing where I'd like to see a serious academic study done, everything I've ever seen has either been pop science or ideological.


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itscomplicated
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04 Sep 2022, 2:30 pm

Dox47 wrote:
I'd be really curious to know how much of a common membership there is between all of the online drama sites, which stereotypically skew autistic, and supports sites like this one, they sure do seem to know where to find the lolcows. It's funny how the AS community is likely on both sides as perpetrators and victims, as we're both focused and obsessive enough to ferret out all of the little details of online drama, and self serious and unaware enough to draw that kind of attention in the first place. That's the kind of thing where I'd like to see a serious academic study done, everything I've ever seen has either been pop science or ideological.


they certainly attract very interesting people

which chans by the way? there seems to be a few? i remeber years ago hearing about them but avoided them because they had lots of drama and viciousness . some of it was really funny tho

i NEED that type of detailed thinking and analysis



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04 Sep 2022, 3:12 pm

Yeah I can imagine many of the victims being autistic.



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04 Sep 2022, 4:52 pm

The “chans” are leading proponents of many conspiracy theories—particularly the QAnon one.



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04 Sep 2022, 5:14 pm

I enjoyed their library of LOLCOWS. I was surprised to find a page of Blair White there and Shoeonhead. I never saw them as lol cows. I always found their lolcow threads entertaining to read. It was like celebrity gossip. Some if those lolcows were real creepy because of predadtory behavior so I felt it was justified and they always posted proof to back their statement. I didn't care about their residence or phone numbers. I don't call people I don't know personally and I don't travel to see them at their doorstep.

But damn people can be cruel and have nothing better to do so they just stalk and harass subjects online or in real life.


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Last edited by League_Girl on 04 Sep 2022, 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Sep 2022, 5:17 pm

Never heard of it before. Sounds like it was a cesspool that needed to be knocked offline.

Dox47 wrote:
According to what I'm hearing, it sounds like the post that got it taken down was something posted from a burner account that was quickly moderated, so it looks like this is more about Cloudflare backing away from a controversial client in the face of public criticism. Again, a dangerous precedent.


How is it a dangerous precedent to get rid of a website who's sole purpose is to harass or dox/swat people? :?

Seems like it would be dangerous to allow it to continue unchecked. I can understand why cloudfare doesn't want anything to do with them.


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