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itscomplicated
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04 Sep 2022, 12:04 pm

ive had enough people having a go at me making big assumptions about me that im a bigot or whatever . when i was genuinly only trying to understand . the anger and judging gets tiring very fast and makes me give up . why talk to somebody who is just going to make out your a bad person for even trying to understand them



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04 Sep 2022, 12:12 pm

magz wrote:
It's sometimes tricky to spot but generally: not knowing is perfectly fine, not understanding is okay (even despite explanation attempts - people have different minds, sometimes something crucial to understanding is unconciously missed for very long time), insisting on invalidating is unacceptable.

Sometimes people claim to not understand or to be uncertain while, at the same, they clearly criticize trans identity or openly refuse to try to use the correct pronoun because they don’t think that being transgender is a valid experience.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 04 Sep 2022, 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Sep 2022, 12:14 pm

itscomplicated wrote:
ive had enough people having a go at me making big assumptions about me that im a bigot or whatever . when i was genuinly only trying to understand . the anger and judging gets tiring very fast and makes me give up . why talk to somebody who is just going to make out your a bad person for even trying to understand them

This topic has become very charged around these parts recently. People could be unleashing their frustration with other members on you.


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itscomplicated
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04 Sep 2022, 12:17 pm

he / she/ they, fine i can handle that . a whole variety of them i cannot . my memory cannot retain that much and i get information overload . thats on any subject . its not my fault



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04 Sep 2022, 12:17 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s nothing wrong with not understanding, but often when someone claims to not understand and are then given helpful feedback, they proceed to invalidate, making it clear that the supposed lack of understanding was more about prejudice. Then they post and post and post…


Can you provide censored examples (maybe just a brief outline to avoid disputes) of posts that you reported and were not removed, with the reasons why they were not explained. It appears that you think the moderators/admin are allowing 'transphobic' language.


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itscomplicated
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04 Sep 2022, 12:19 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
itscomplicated wrote:
ive had enough people having a go at me making big assumptions about me that im a bigot or whatever . when i was genuinly only trying to understand . the anger and judging gets tiring very fast and makes me give up . why talk to somebody who is just going to make out your a bad person for even trying to understand them

This topic has become very charged around these parts recently. People could be unleashing their frustration with other members on you.


i agree . they need to change that .



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04 Sep 2022, 12:20 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Since in L&D statements about which gender has it easier was a “fraught subject” and is, thus, no longer allowed, perhaps something similar should happen with specific lines of reasoning towards trans individuals - especially those which question people’s identity and/or experience and the lack of desire some have to accommodate them. Nothing positive can come from it.


Let's be clear about what you're asking for, you want thought policing on opinions you don't like.


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04 Sep 2022, 12:21 pm

Doberdoofus wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s nothing wrong with not understanding, but often when someone claims to not understand and are then given helpful feedback, they proceed to invalidate, making it clear that the supposed lack of understanding was more about prejudice. Then they post and post and post…


It appears that you think the moderators/admin are allowing 'transphobic' language.

I just wanted to know what that meant and where the line was drawn. As magz mentioned, it’s “tricky.”


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04 Sep 2022, 12:24 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Since in L&D statements about which gender has it easier was a “fraught subject” and is, thus, no longer allowed, perhaps something similar should happen with specific lines of reasoning towards trans individuals - especially those which question people’s identity and/or experience and the lack of desire some have to accommodate them. Nothing positive can come from it.


Let's be clear about what you're asking for, you want thought policing on opinions you don't like.

People are free to have whatever thoughts they like. However, they don’t always have the freedom to state those thoughts on forums.

I just wanted to know what is or isn’t against the rules. I learned that invalidating the experience of trans individuals is not allowed.


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04 Sep 2022, 12:27 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Doberdoofus wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s nothing wrong with not understanding, but often when someone claims to not understand and are then given helpful feedback, they proceed to invalidate, making it clear that the supposed lack of understanding was more about prejudice. Then they post and post and post…


It appears that you think the moderators/admin are allowing 'transphobic' language.

I just wanted to know what that meant and where the line was drawn. As magz mentioned, it’s “tricky.”


You appear to have dodged my question twice now. Why is that? Have you reported 'transphobic' posts, and they were not removed. If you have, this is a problem. If you haven't, how do you know what's acceptable to the moderators/admin?


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04 Sep 2022, 12:29 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
People are free to have whatever thoughts they like. However, they don’t always have the freedom to state those thoughts on forums.

I just wanted to know what is or isn’t against the rules. I learned that invalidating the experience of trans individuals is not allowed.


What does "invalidating the experience" mean? If I say that I don't want to use pronouns because I find them a cumbersome imposition, are you "invalidating" my experience when you claim that it's no big deal and that I must be a secret bigot? Aside from the personal attack element, of course.


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04 Sep 2022, 12:29 pm

Doberdoofus wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Doberdoofus wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s nothing wrong with not understanding, but often when someone claims to not understand and are then given helpful feedback, they proceed to invalidate, making it clear that the supposed lack of understanding was more about prejudice. Then they post and post and post…


It appears that you think the moderators/admin are allowing 'transphobic' language.

I just wanted to know what that meant and where the line was drawn. As magz mentioned, it’s “tricky.”


You appear to have dodged my question twice now. Why is that? Have you reported 'transphobic' posts, and they were not removed. If you have, this is a problem. If you haven't, how do you know what's acceptable to the moderators/admin?

:?

The whole point of this thread is to find out what is acceptable to moderators/admin.

What I have or haven’t reported is my own business.


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04 Sep 2022, 12:32 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
People are free to have whatever thoughts they like. However, they don’t always have the freedom to state those thoughts on forums.

I just wanted to know what is or isn’t against the rules. I learned that invalidating the experience of trans individuals is not allowed.


What does "invalidating the experience" mean? If I say that I don't want to use pronouns because I find them a cumbersome imposition, are you "invalidating" my experience when you claim that it's no big deal and that I must be a secret bigot? Aside from the personal attack element, of course.

Maybe this is a question a moderator could answer.

In my experience, people don’t just avoid using the pronouns; they also argue why they think they shouldn’t be used and state rationales that seem…invalidating.


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04 Sep 2022, 12:33 pm

itscomplicated wrote:
he / she/ they, fine i can handle that . a whole variety of them i cannot . my memory cannot retain that much and i get information overload . thats on any subject . its not my fault

Remembering pronouns is just like remembering names. People have better or worse memory to them and some have trouble remembering the right ones but it is polite to at least try.


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04 Sep 2022, 12:37 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Doberdoofus wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Doberdoofus wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s nothing wrong with not understanding, but often when someone claims to not understand and are then given helpful feedback, they proceed to invalidate, making it clear that the supposed lack of understanding was more about prejudice. Then they post and post and post…


It appears that you think the moderators/admin are allowing 'transphobic' language.

I just wanted to know what that meant and where the line was drawn. As magz mentioned, it’s “tricky.”


You appear to have dodged my question twice now. Why is that? Have you reported 'transphobic' posts, and they were not removed. If you have, this is a problem. If you haven't, how do you know what's acceptable to the moderators/admin?

:?

The whole point of this thread is to find out what is acceptable to moderators/admin.

What I have or haven’t reported is my own business.


Reporting a post will tell you what is acceptable to moderators/admin. I think it's every one's business if you have reported 'transphobic' posts, and they were not dealt with.


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Don't be so eager to be offended. The narcissism of small differences leads to the most boring kind of conformity.


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04 Sep 2022, 12:39 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
In my experience, people don’t just avoid using the pronouns; they also argue why they think they shouldn’t be used and state rationales that seem…invalidating.


You mean, they state the reasoning behind their positions? The horror.


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