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Mona Pereth
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19 Sep 2022, 2:52 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Team blue has their own version of this, an interstate compact to throw their electoral votes to the popular vote winner regardless of how the state actually votes,

As far as I can tell, this compact is not yet in effect.

According to the Wikipedia article National Popular Vote Interstate Compact: "The compact is designed to ensure that the candidate who receives the most votes nationwide is elected president, and it would come into effect only when it would guarantee that outcome. As of June 2022, it has been adopted by fifteen states and the District of Columbia. These states have 195 electoral votes, which is 36% of the Electoral College and 72% of the 270 votes needed to give the compact legal force."

EDIT: Here's a 2021 article on the website of the Cato institute discussing some of the things that could possibly go wrong with the Popular Vote Interstate Compact if it ever won the support of enough states.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 19 Sep 2022, 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
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19 Sep 2022, 3:25 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Ever living generation is a member of the same society and culture, though.

To some extent, but not completely. There are still some regional cultural differences. There are also urban vs. suburban vs. rural differences. Also, people with a college education are culturally different from people with less education. Also there are religions and other subcultures that people join voluntarily.


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goldfish21
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19 Sep 2022, 3:34 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Every living generation is a member of the same society and culture, though.

To some extent, but not completely. There are still some regional cultural differences. There are also urban vs. suburban vs. rural differences. Also, people with a college education are culturally different from people with less education. Also there are religions and other subcultures that people join voluntarily.

Yeah, I guess. We do live in big countries. It'd be awful if people judged British Columbians by the culture of Albertans, for instance. I guess Canada and the USA are large enough to have quite diverse cultures - like Europe or Africa vs. comparing to some tiny country like England.

And yeah, there's definitely different cultures by class/education/socio-economic status etc.. totally different hanging out with some tech company CEO vs. homeless drug addicts in the same city.

But still, everyone's been around to experience the same big events and federal level politics.


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19 Sep 2022, 5:02 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
And we are fixating on this one thing instead of the many factors that go into what makes Gen X as conservative as they are. If I wanted to talk in circles about J.K., I would go to that thread.

Thank you for pointing this out.


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19 Sep 2022, 6:10 pm

Trump was my only logical choice in 2016. I have a better choice now.


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19 Sep 2022, 6:16 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
No it isn't. It's factually incorrect. Trans women are women, it's in the name.


So, "it's in the name" is now a logical proof? This raises some questions about the various "Democratic People's" styled countries, to say the least.

The_Walrus wrote:
Saying that trans women are not women is transphobic, in the same way that saying lesbians are not women is homophobic, or saying that black women are not women is racist.


That comparison is incoherent gibberish, there is a vast difference between saying a person is not a woman because of their race or sexual orientation vs because they were born a man and later assumed a female identity, I'm surprised you would make such a facile argument.

The_Walrus wrote:
Woman is a gender, not a sex; they are scientifically separate concepts. Little girls are not women even though they are female, ewes are not women even though they are female.


More irrelevant comparisons, nobody is claiming that young girls or female animals are "women", it's not even a strawman argument at this point.

The_Walrus wrote:
In theory, "trans women do not have ovaries" is a basic biological fact. But the existence of trans women, as well as cis women who have had double oophorectomies, and some intersex women, tells us that having ovaries is not necessary for being a woman. That is a scientific fact. And bluntly, if someone goes around regularly saying stuff like "trans women do not have ovaries" in a context other than teaching children about trans people or some similar context... I'm gonna look at them with the same suspicion I'd look at someone who keeps bringing up black crime statistics or gay paedos. I can see the point they're probably trying to make and they're not going to pull the wool over my eyes.


This is all sophistry trying to get around the fact that there are real differences between trans women and natal women, as well as ladling on some judgment for good measure. Why is this even a sore point, is it not enough to treat trans women with respect and dignity, we also have to believe in their particular world view even if it doesn't square with science and reality?


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Mona Pereth
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20 Sep 2022, 8:21 am

Dox47 wrote:
So, "it's in the name" is now a logical proof?

Proof of a recent language change. These days it's common to distinguish between "gender" (gender identity, gender expression, etc.) and "sex" (which can refer to chromosomal sex, anatomical sex, or assigned/designated sex at birth -- even these three are not always the same, given the existence of people born with intersex conditions).

Dox47 wrote:
This is all sophistry trying to get around the fact that there are real differences between trans women and natal women,

Of course there are real differences. The question is whether, for most ordinary social purposes at least, gender identity or sex at birth should be deemed primary.

Obviously, for some purposes, such as medical records, the state of a person's body needs to be known also, possibly including not only their sex at birth (in all 3 senses I mentioned above), but also any medical transitioning that has been done so far, plus any intersex bodily traits that might have spontaneously manifested later in life than one's birth.

Dox47 wrote:
Why is this even a sore point, is it not enough to treat trans women with respect and dignity, we also have to believe in their particular world view even if it doesn't square with science and reality?

How do you think you can "treat trans women with respect and dignity" without respecting their gender identity?

And what, exactly, is the "world view" you have a problem with? How does an understanding of the various different meanings of sex and gender, together with a willingness to respect gender identity, not "square with science and reality"?


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