Sexual objectification of women, & why it's oppressive

Page 2 of 2 [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,835
Location: New York City (Queens)

14 Sep 2022, 5:12 pm

There's a lot of social pressure on women and girls (at least in the social mainstream) to put a lot of effort into their appearance, often to an unhealthy degree. Some writers say these social pressures have gotten worse in recent decades.

According to one U.K.-based survey, 80% of 11- to 21-year-old girls "felt their looks were the most important thing about them." Even among 7 to 10-year-olds who took part in the survey, "36% said they were made to feel the most important thing about them was their looks." (Pressure to look perfect hits girls' confidence, say Guides by Judith Burns, Education reporter, BBC, 4 October 2016.)

Two other articles that came up in a quick Google search:

- Too Much Pressure On Women To Have A “Perfect Body” by Sejal Pandey
- Pressure on girls for perfect body 'worse than ever', says Orbach by Frederick Attewill (Agence France-Presse), The Jakarta Post, Mon, November 12, 2018.

According to the latter article:

Quote:
Girls and young women are under more pressure than ever to achieve the perfect body in an oppressive social media-driven world that could never have been imagined by 1970s feminists, says psychoanalyst and bestselling author Susie Orbach.

[...]

... The British writer -- who was once Princess Diana's therapist -- said women were commodifying their bodies as they tried to conform to false images peddled by online beauty influencers. Girls as young as six were being conditioned to think about cosmetic surgery, she added, with a host of industries fueling and profiting from body insecurity.

[...]

"It's much, much worse than we ever envisioned," Orbach told AFP

[...]

Orbach has recently been involved in a year-long international campaign to force Apple, Google and Amazon to remove cosmetic surgery apps targeting primary school-aged girls, in which cartoon-style characters can be modified with procedures such as liposuction.

[...]

Orbach has spoken about the liberation women felt from the late 1960s when they began to challenge beauty pageant objectification and rebel against body expectations.

But the pressures back then started later, not in childhood, she told AFP.

"It happened at 18, it didn't happen at six. You didn't have girls and boys saying 'Have I got a six pack?' or 'I'm too fat' at six and seven. You didn't have girls throwing up over the toilet bowl at nine."


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter (new as of 2021)


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,993

14 Sep 2022, 5:26 pm

carlos55 wrote:
2. Women objectify themselves through their own culture. Most women are interested in beauty products, fashion etc.. in ways most men are not

In the same way men are more interested in sport like football, military or power politics.

Some women will gladly pick up a fashion magazine in a doctors waiting room spend their time looking at the attractive models and Beauty articles. The same magazine most men will ignore.

Then later complain about objectifying women

So what we have is both hypocritical behavior and women at war with themselves or resenting their younger more attractive peers.


I think there is a tug of war that happens among women themselves. Since the 1950s women want to be take seriously as contributing members of the workforce and want to be given the same level playing field as men. It's problematic when a woman catches public transport to get to work, when she's at work or at meetings that she's ogled by men who are looking at her as an object and not as a worker. This feeds into the narrative that an attractive woman only got her position because of her beauty and not her brains. This does impact their self-esteem and is a hurdle that men don't have to cope with.

Concurrently women also want to be attractive/noticed. This hasn't changed from the olden days. In this social media age its not surprising that young women use their physical assets to their advantage. They want to be noticed by men but also by their peers. But (heres the thing) they they also want to be taken seriously, Hence the tug of war,



Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,122
Location: England

14 Sep 2022, 7:11 pm

I get catcalled quite a bit in everyday life. Personally I've always been baffled by such behaviour. Especially when the person catcalling is driving by, how do they even expect me to react? I hate it when they yell and take me by surprise so I jump a little, that's just annoying. The absolute worst is when I get sexual comments when I'm walking with a relative. I've...well, I've heard some things.

Now and then, people have randomly made comments about things men do and do not like. Just completely unprompted. "You shouldn't do that, men don't like it". I like to respond "Good" and see the cogs start spinning in their head. :lol:

One of the strangest experiences I've had occurred when I was teenager. A teenage boy yelled "I wouldn't have sex with you" to me in the street. The group he was with was high fiving him, so I can only assume it was a weird prank.

People have been making sexual comments about me since I was eleven. I remember being subjected to rape jokes about what people would do to me. You just had to laugh it off - at the time I didn't know what else to do - it was uncomfortable but unfortunately expected. I was a late bloomer, yet people would still sexualise my body. Boys would bully me and when I would tell the adults in my life, people would tell me that it was fine because 'That means he has a crush on you!' :roll:

I do sometimes worry about objectifying women. The way people experience attraction varies from person to person. Some people only experience physical attraction once an emotional connection has been made. However, I am not such a person. The idea of hooking up doesn't appeal, but I have felt physical attraction to others without really knowing them. Why? Because my brain is an idiot. I've found myself briefly looking where I shouldn't in the past, but I've always corrected myself because it's disrespectful.

That's what it comes down to really. Seeing others as individuals with their own boundaries and wishes. If both parties are OK with sexualisation (e.g. in a sexual relationship) then that's OK, but it's quite another matter if you're describing your sexual fantasy to a stranger on the street who didn't ask.


_________________
23. Possibly B.A.P.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,993

15 Sep 2022, 3:27 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
That's what it comes down to really. Seeing others as individuals with their own boundaries and wishes.


I've actually heard a lot of women express similar sentiment that men not view them as objects. But here's the thing, not every young straight man has a network of female friends whom they can be introduced to and become friends with.

Most young men have no choice but to approach women and talk to them. When they get the message that they are being sexualised creeps. A lot of them give up. Alas the real creeps have given the rest of males a bad name. Especially in the #Metoo era.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,089
Location: Pacific Northwest

15 Sep 2022, 2:05 pm

I was once slut shamed on Reddit by other women because I said I only got unwanted attention for dressing down and when I was pregnant. It didn't matter that I wrote women can dress however they want without a guy harassing them. I guess this angered women because maybe they felt my experience fits into a misogynist narrative that women are asking for it and use my story as proof that women can avoid harassment if they cover most of their body; don't wear crop tops and shorts that show your highs, don't show cleavage or top of your chest.

But this isn't my fault, they should be angry at men who act this way and at pick me women. Their anger was misplaced and I notice it's women who judge women more and get mad at them for their personal experience or their positive experience.


I often feel I am supposed to shut up if my experience isn't bad enough because others had it worse.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,122
Location: England

15 Sep 2022, 7:03 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
That's what it comes down to really. Seeing others as individuals with their own boundaries and wishes.


I've actually heard a lot of women express similar sentiment that men not view them as objects. But here's the thing, not every young straight man has a network of female friends whom they can be introduced to and become friends with.

Most young men have no choice but to approach women and talk to them. When they get the message that they are being sexualised creeps. A lot of them give up. Alas the real creeps have given the rest of males a bad name. Especially in the #Metoo era.


I understand where you're coming from. There is nothing wrong with being hit on, generally speaking, but context and approach matters. For instance, ill-judged jokes, such as introducing your friend and asking you to have sex with them because 'no one else will' are best avoided. Unfortunately, there are a fair few creeps out there. When I reject men, I have to make some calculations for the sake of safety. It can be tricky when you're being hit on by someone you don't know, because you don't have background information on them. Are they harmless? Can I turn them down directly, or will they only accept it if I have a man's authority on the matter? Do I need an escape plan? Could this turn violent? If so, can I defend myself?

Back in high school, I remember the girls being taken into a room and we were taught about self-defense. We also had to watch a video about club safety. The standard information, such as never leaving a drink unattended. We also did some fake fighting and had to knock our opponent to the ground. I think that many of us (although I'm generalising here) are taught to be hypervigilant. As a result, some men who mean no ill-intent are treated with suspicion, because there's always the possibility that they may turn. Which can be a worrying concept when you don't know the person, because you don't have a frame of reference for their usual behaviour. Although, statistically you're more likely to be harmed by someone you know.

In an ideal world, all rejections would be taken in stride. Rejections can hurt, I know from experience, but there's definitely something to be said about the way some men tie rejection into personal insult. This seems to be culturally taught. I remember my friend's step parents would tell him that he needs to try harder and to keep asking me out until I say yes. Even though he explained to them that I am gay and that I am never going to do that, so constantly asking me would be a pointless endeavour. Parents who teach their offspring to disrespect someone saying no are disturbing.

Men who have female friends are more likely to be trusted, because they have references in regards to how they act around women. Is this fair? Perhaps not. However, I can certainly understand.

This is not to say that women are always the ones on the receiving end of unwanted sexual attention. It's a complicated subject. Certainly I hope that this doesn't come across as me disrespecting men as a whole, that is not my intention.


_________________
23. Possibly B.A.P.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,993

15 Sep 2022, 10:07 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
In an ideal world, all rejections would be taken in stride. Rejections can hurt, I know from experience, but there's definitely something to be said about the way some men tie rejection into personal insult. This seems to be culturally taught.


Yes this is the conundrum. I think in this respect Americans are culturally more open to dating in highschool than in the UK or Australia. In the US its more culturally expected that young men can ask a girl on a date and the girl will expects that males her age will do that in highschool. Its normal and there's no stigma and everyone moves on.

In Australia men are straight scared of the women here. One only has the courage to ask a girl if they have Dutch courage (usually inebriated and in a bar).

In highschool there is a toxic vindictiveness and bullying culture where a boy who asks a girl out on a date risks relentless harrassment and bullying from the girl, her friends and the usual alpha males who look for any excuse to hassle their school mates. It's really not worth the trouble. I never once went to a school prom but even the alpha males would bring dates from outside of the school and the girls had their own boyfriends from outside.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,993

15 Sep 2022, 10:10 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
Men who have female friends are more likely to be trusted, because they have references in regards to how they act around women. Is this fair? Perhaps not. However, I can certainly understand.

This is not to say that women are always the ones on the receiving end of unwanted sexual attention. It's a complicated subject. Certainly I hope that this doesn't come across as me disrespecting men as a whole, that is not my intention.


No I think you are being perfectly reasonable. If I was a straight female I'd trust men in my social circle > strangers



carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,307

16 Sep 2022, 8:08 am

There are a couple of further points

1. Let’s not forget many young women like male attention. There was a girl I knew in my area when I was younger who always used to boost about the horn beeps she got walking down the street in a low cut top.

What many of these women like her will probably say is they want the right attention i.e the 25 year old good looking guy in the sports car not the bald 50 year old washed out creep twice her age.

So who’s being hypocritical and shallow here? The men or the women? Seems like both as bad as each other.

2. Being body aware not always a bad thing of course when it leads to a mental illness like anorexia it is but a time when type 2 diabetes is at record high if it makes people watch their weight and go to the gym it can be a positive thing too.

Suppose it’s all about balance


_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."

- George Bernie Shaw


Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1932
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,796
Location: wales

16 Sep 2022, 8:55 am

carlos55 wrote:
There are a couple of further points

1. Let’s not forget many young women like male attention. There was a girl I knew in my area when I was younger who always used to boost about the horn beeps she got walking down the street in a low cut top.

What many of these women like her will probably say is they want the right attention i.e the 25 year old good looking guy in the sports car not the bald 50 year old washed out creep twice her age.

So who’s being hypocritical and shallow here? The men or the women? Seems like both as bad as each other.

2. Being body aware not always a bad thing of course when it leads to a mental illness like anorexia it is but a time when type 2 diabetes is at record high if it makes people watch their weight and go to the gym it can be a positive thing too.

Suppose it’s all about balance


I have to admit, I've seen this in person many times. The more handsome men get considerably more attention than the less attractive ones. Since I stopped being a 9 stone weed, I've gotten more attention from women with several just outright getting straight to their desires. I hang out with a lot swingers a fair bit now (got sick to death of the straight laced life i was expected to live as an autistic man) and objectifying themselves is a big turn on to them.

I find these more "open" women more approachable than the timid women. They just seem more receptive and easier to get along with for the most part. There are some knob heads for sure but a decent "open" no holes barred women just gives the impression they're weighing me up a lot less than "I'm holding out until I see prince charming" types even though it sounds very counter intuitive. I've had some good convo with them if they want a little chat afterwards.

Even the knob heads still give into their desires with you though which still makes them a more appealing prospect than someone who swings the complete polar opposite direction. I would rather give the time of day to a woman who's flaky and frosty but still wants to bone over a prude who's weighing me up to see if I'm worthy enough.

A prude who makes me feel like she's dissecting every aspect of my life and judging accordingly is very uncomfortable to be around. A part time a***hole who is chill with me one week an cold the next makes me feel under less pressure.



carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,307

16 Sep 2022, 1:56 pm

Nades wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
There are a couple of further points

1. Let’s not forget many young women like male attention. There was a girl I knew in my area when I was younger who always used to boost about the horn beeps she got walking down the street in a low cut top.

What many of these women like her will probably say is they want the right attention i.e the 25 year old good looking guy in the sports car not the bald 50 year old washed out creep twice her age.

So who’s being hypocritical and shallow here? The men or the women? Seems like both as bad as each other.

2. Being body aware not always a bad thing of course when it leads to a mental illness like anorexia it is but a time when type 2 diabetes is at record high if it makes people watch their weight and go to the gym it can be a positive thing too.

Suppose it’s all about balance


I have to admit, I've seen this in person many times. The more handsome men get considerably more attention than the less attractive ones. Since I stopped being a 9 stone weed, I've gotten more attention from women with several just outright getting straight to their desires. I hang out with a lot swingers a fair bit now (got sick to death of the straight laced life i was expected to live as an autistic man) and objectifying themselves is a big turn on to them.

I find these more "open" women more approachable than the timid women. They just seem more receptive and easier to get along with for the most part. There are some knob heads for sure but a decent "open" no holes barred women just gives the impression they're weighing me up a lot less than "I'm holding out until I see prince charming" types even though it sounds very counter intuitive. I've had some good convo with them if they want a little chat afterwards.

Even the knob heads still give into their desires with you though which still makes them a more appealing prospect than someone who swings the complete polar opposite direction. I would rather give the time of day to a woman who's flaky and frosty but still wants to bone over a prude who's weighing me up to see if I'm worthy enough.

A prude who makes me feel like she's dissecting every aspect of my life and judging accordingly is very uncomfortable to be around. A part time a***hole who is chill with me one week an cold the next makes me feel under less pressure.


Agree and good for you by the way

There is a huge element of hypocracy in this sex war thing, seems women can be as shallow as men possibly more so just in different ways. Many young women will prefer the hunks while older ones the wallet.

They dont seem to be queing up to give autistic males a chance that`s for sure

Is that worse than men who seek out beach babes or just shallowness expressed in a different way?


_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."

- George Bernie Shaw


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,835
Location: New York City (Queens)

16 Sep 2022, 3:35 pm

Nades wrote:
I hang out with a lot swingers a fair bit now (got sick to death of the straight laced life i was expected to live as an autistic man) and objectifying themselves is a big turn on to them.

But even the swingers' scene does have its own rules of etiquette, right? For example, you can't just walk up to a random woman and grope her. And "no" means no -- more so in the mainstream world, where playing hard-to-get is apparently still an expected thing, at least in some places.

Nades wrote:
I find these more "open" women more approachable than the timid women. They just seem more receptive and easier to get along with for the most part.

Non-mainstream sexual subcultures, such as swinging, polyamory, and kink, generally have simpler and more straightforward social rules than mainstream dating culture. Thus they are more autistic-friendly, at least once you get accustomed to them. (See Autism and Consent by Kirsten Lindsmith, Jan 16, 2018.)

I was into the kink and polyamory scenes in my twenties and thirties.

By the way, women "objectifying themselves" is not required in these scenes, or at least it wasn't back in the 1980's and 1990's, although women were free to do so if they wished. (I don't know for sure what these scenes are like now.) I was not into "objectifying myself."

Anyhow, I'm glad to hear that you've figured out how to have a decent social life.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter (new as of 2021)


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,993

16 Sep 2022, 9:59 pm

carlos55 wrote:
There are a couple of further points
Let’s not forget many young women like male attention. There was a girl I knew in my area when I was younger who always used to boost about the horn beeps she got walking down the street in a low cut top.

What many of these women like her will probably say is they want the right attention i.e the 25 year old good looking guy in the sports car not the bald 50 year old washed out creep twice her age.


I think you need to factor that women also go through phases as well. My sister went through a phase as you described back in the early 1980s wearing hotpants loose t-shirts in public, She enjoyed have corporate men driving expensive cars stopping her and giving them their business cards (the early 80s was when the "Wall street" corporate culture influenced men's fashion sense walking around talking into a brick sized mobile phone and handing out business cards). By the 1990s she was totally feminist, vegan and covered up from head to toe.

I think the phase helps boost their self-esteem and its something they can cross off their bucketlist that they are hot or capable of being hot. Teenage girls and college aged girls tend to do this.



shlaifu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,658

16 Sep 2022, 10:18 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
There's a lot of social pressure on women and girls (at least in the social mainstream) to put a lot of effort into their appearance, often to an unhealthy degree. Some writers say these social pressures have gotten worse in recent decades.

According to one U.K.-based survey, 80% of 11- to 21-year-old girls "felt their looks were the most important thing about them." Even among 7 to 10-year-olds who took part in the survey, "36% said they were made to feel the most important thing about them was their looks."
[/quote]

By now the data is largely in, and I take at least some pleasure, being on the spectrum and all: the ultraviolent videogames that have been keeping moralists and parents worried seem to have little to no effect on the psyche of young boys, but the permant online social sphere that your parents and even your grandparents are using is destroying society as a whole, and young girls in particular.
I think we should all teach our children to play more doom, and spend less time sharing pictures of themselves.


_________________
I can read facial expressions. I did the test.


Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1932
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,796
Location: wales

17 Sep 2022, 6:32 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Nades wrote:
I hang out with a lot swingers a fair bit now (got sick to death of the straight laced life i was expected to live as an autistic man) and objectifying themselves is a big turn on to them.

But even the swingers' scene does have its own rules of etiquette, right? For example, you can't just walk up to a random woman and grope her. And "no" means no -- more so in the mainstream world, where playing hard-to-get is apparently still an expected thing, at least in some places.

Nades wrote:
I find these more "open" women more approachable than the timid women. They just seem more receptive and easier to get along with for the most part.

Non-mainstream sexual subcultures, such as swinging, polyamory, and kink, generally have simpler and more straightforward social rules than mainstream dating culture. Thus they are more autistic-friendly, at least once you get accustomed to them. (See Autism and Consent by Kirsten Lindsmith, Jan 16, 2018.)

I was into the kink and polyamory scenes in my twenties and thirties.

By the way, women "objectifying themselves" is not required in these scenes, or at least it wasn't back in the 1980's and 1990's, although women were free to do so if they wished. (I don't know for sure what these scenes are like now.) I was not into "objectifying myself."

Anyhow, I'm glad to hear that you've figured out how to have a decent social life.


It has rules of no random touching unless asked and no prying into personal lives too much. The regulars are usually pretty fine with people knowing who they are and I usually don't have to ask for consent again to at least touch in days, weeks or even months later with women I had prior sexual interactions with.

When it comes to sex you'll always need to wait for permission. They just tell you outright what they want or say yes or no when asked.

I think there's a happy middle ground with objectification. Nothing is more off-putting to a guy than a woman who's so frigid that they actually feel like they'll stand more luck with a 10 out of 10. Just don't make a scene of being very "out there" unless it's with people who'll keep it private but don't be a nun who nobody wants to approach.

Being a spinster with 5 cats is nothing new afterall. Men have been rejecting prudes for a long, long, long time.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,929

17 Sep 2022, 3:27 pm



My, my, 'This Thread' on 'Sexual Objectification of Women And Why It's Oppressive'
Brings Back A Lot of Memories; Particularly, At A Dance Hall Where i Spent Most
Every Thursday Night For 6 Years Until Covid-19 Shut The Place Down then on

March 12, 2020; Yep, i Remember The Last Day As the Bouncer At The Door
That Day Said Nothing Closes this Place Down; Neither Thanks Giving
Day or Christmas Day; Not Even Christmas Eve Hehe; Anyway Those

298 Weeks i Spent Taking Close and Precise Notes on How
Human Nature And 'The Mating Game' Has Changed So

Much; And While It's True at the Southern Baptist
Sunday Dinners on the Pastor's Farm An Older

Woman Will Always Modestly Close Her Shirt While Bending
Over; This JusT Ain't Always A Way it is in Newer Generations;

Namely Z and the Millennials, The College Crowd And Slightly Above
In Those Years of 2014 Thru 2020; Indeed, So Very Much Changed Since

The 80's of Front-to-Front Slow Dancing And Actual Kissing on the Dance Floor;

True, Yep It's a Lot More Like Bonobo Greetings Back to Front Often Initiated By

The Young Adult Crowd of Women There And in Some Cases Quite Aggressively
As Well Yet What's Most Common is They Don't Tend to Ask Permission to Get Very

Close in Grinding Dances With the Most Private of Public Parts; True Even if You Are An Otherwise

Happily Married Dude All Solo on the Dance Floor in a Way It's Truly Like Clothed 'Rape' Yet Not

in the Sense That

They Would Ever
Expect The

Dominating
Behavior From
Back to Front As
An Affront AS Such;

True, i Never Complained
And my Wife Just Thought it Was
Hilarious as She Doesn't Have A Jealous Bone In Her Body

And She Knows Feels and Senses Who i am Through and Through

Loyal to the Point of Responding, No i Won't Come to Your After
Party When 5 Young Women Asked me to Party After the Dance

Or on the Very Last Dance Night Two Young Women Approached
me With Their Rears to my Front And Asked me For my Phone Number;

i Responded, Do You Have Any Idea How Old i am And Yes it was Kinda
Dark and They Said 35; So i Whipped out my Driver's License And Proved
to them that i was Born on 6.6.60 Just 3 Months Away Then From Age 60
on March 12, 2020; And Then i Showed 'em Pics of my Beautiful Wife Who

In Her Early
50's Now Just

Never Seems to
Age in Her Bikini
on my Facebook Page;

They Just Smiled and
Giggled and Took a Selfie
With me That i Still Have As
A Record of That Night as A
Participant Anthropology Observer AS Such...

A Key Here is Women Mostly Came In Groups and Felt Safe
That Way; And Indeed, Even Though There Was Some Clothed
Sowing and Reaping of Oats AS Such on the Dance Floor They

Most All Went Home Protected With Each Other on the Sidewalks
Back to Their Car Through the City Blocks in DownTown Pensacola, Florida;

Very Rarely When One Gets One of These 'Hit and Run' Grinding Dances is there
even Any Real interest to Catch Much Front-to-Front Eye Contact AS Such It's Just

(my Wife Said Wearing Shades to Cover my Light Green to Blue Changing Eyes hehe
Might be one Potential Birth Control Method of Not Piercing Windows of Souls AS Such)

Grown-Up
Adult Play; Yep,

Sort of Like A
Bonobo Hand
Shake Below

in A Grinding Way;

And It's True Never in a Zillion
Years Would i Approach Any Stranger
of A Woman i Didn't Know And Take the
Liberty of Grinding All Up on Their Private Parts...

Yet It's So Strange Now to Them That Seemed Less Intimate

Than Face to Face Contact or Even A Hello my Name is 'Jane Doe'...

Everyone Gets Along For the Most Part on that Dance Floor All Those
6 Years i Studied it; And God Yes, There Was Plenty of Sexual Objectification

Going On Yet For the Most Part it Surely Wasn't Oppressive; Other than the Dudes

Who Asked me to Get in Their Group And Surround One of the Women Solo on the

Floor to Sort of Try to Force Them Into A Dance And That Seemed Very Oppressive to me

Although i Didn't Feel Oppressed At All From All the Free Standing "Lap Dances" AS Such;

i Can't Possibly Put
Myself in A Woman's

Shoes As It's Actually Not an
Experience i Ever Expected to Have
in Life; It's Sort of like the Movie 'Animal

House' And A Young Man Was Looking at a Playboy
Magazine And A 'Bunny' From A Parade Flew in Through

His Window And

He Said, 'Thank You God.'

For A Dude, When 6 or So Women
Surround Ya For An Ecstatic Dance

It's Just Doesn't Scare Ya Nearly as Much
As A Dude As A Woman Surrounded By 6 Dudes

Doing Exactly the Same Thing; Safety in Numbers, Safety in Numbers;

i Always Went Solo and Left Solo With A Few Pics to Record the Experience

For my Longitudinal Ongoing Poetic Research Paper on the Changing Condition of Humanity.

The Sexual Objectification of Women is Systemic, Particularly Since 'i Dream of Jeannie' Got to
Show Her Belly Button And 'Lucy And Desi' Didn't Have 'Twin Beds' in Their Bedroom; Back then

the Only Playboy Magazine
Around Was Yes the Panty
And Bra Section of the Sears
And Roebucks Catalog Hehe;
Yes in Red Hot Puberty You May Use

All Available Resources When All Is Hidden;

It is the Taboo That Makes the Most 'Stimulation'

And When it's Just A Bonobo Handshake on the Dance Floor;

Interestingly, Younger Folks May Lose Interest in Even 'Doing it'...

Steak And Ice Cream;

Steak And Ice Cream;

Humans Are not Evolved
to Live With Constant Instant
Gratification; If Ya Wanna Really

Enjoy Life Dance Through the Fire of Less too...

Yet Again for me, A Poem From Someone May

Be More Intoxicating Than Any 'Bikini' Imaginable Yet

That's an Acquired Taste of 'Fine Wine' That Not All Develop...

i Tried to Explain to the Dudes Who Wanted me to 'Gang Up' and
Surround the Solo Women That if You Really Wanna Touch a Woman
in the Deepest Places Possible practice Becoming A Poet And Color the

Greatest Organ of all Human iMaGiNaTioN and Creativity Hand-in-Hand

Then There Are No Limits As Far As Size, Shape, And Color For A Poem May
Stand Tall For All Time When Time Goes Away And The Feelings Are Remembered Forevermore now...

And Other than that i Pretty Much Proved to them, if You Want Attention From Women, Do Your Own
Solo Dance Naked Enough Whole Complete As there is Nothing Much More Attractive to A Woman Than A Dude

Who is Totally
Fearless Yes to be
Newly Creative And Free...

(i Never took a Penny in that
Place; Never Offered to Buy a
Woman A Drink And Turned
Down Many Offers from the
Same as Alcohol Would Only
Dilute the Autotelic Flow and
Ecstatic Bliss of the Free Dance)

Anyway, the Notes i Took Those
6 Years Proved That Point Irrefutably So in Photographs, All 2000 and More;

And Remember, i Was the One Before Who was too Out of Sorts to Go into Walmart
And Walk by Myself Without my Wife at my Side as i Was Just That Uncomfortable in my own skin...

And Why? Always Attached to A Screen What's Left to become Embodied in A Free Dance And Song...

'They' Don't Usually Explain that in School/Work; A Danger of Becoming More the Tools We Use than Embodied
Fully Human For Real.... (Although There Were Some Warning Sings in the Engineering Classrooms
And Computer Labs to Get Out And Do Human too; i don't See those Warning Signs Anymore Now)

Truly, We LiVE iN An
Increasingly Smaller

Objectified World;

True About A Half
A Foot or So of
A Smart Phone World...

Thing is it's Like Being A Frog
in A Slow Boil; You May Forget Where You Are;
It's too Late. and Bang Bang Your Life is Spent...

i Would Rather Be FULLY EMBODIED AND OBJECTIFIED
BY A Woman on A Dance Hall Than Never Escape A Screen and Be Just the Tools i Use...

When i Was Shut-in And Sick for 66 Months i had no other Choice; Sadly We AS Humans
May Objectify Our Worlds Becoming Tools and Just LiVE iN A Representative Reality of What's

Even really real
More Fully
Embodied;

The Irony is
We May
Objectify
And Oppress
Ourselves and Do
That Even in Sexual Ways
too Devoid of Humanity True...

i'm Old; 62, Gives me Perspective
From Before That Some Folks Likely
Don't Have at all Now; i See it When

Young Folks Glued on their Phones in
Customer Service Places Don't Even Look

Up to Acknowledge other Human Beings;

As That Becomes a New Customer Service Standard in So Many ways;

So Very Objective And Oppressive to All of What it Even Means to Be Human...

Modern Human Beings Currently Have Big Problems Materially Reducing Reality
As That Moves From Focusing on Female Body Parts to Body Parts on Screens AS Such...

How May We Measure the Potential Modern Consequences of this; True, Harvard studies
Showing 40 Percent of College Age Folks With Life Limiting depression; And 60 Percent
of the Same With Life Limiting Severe Anxiety; When NDD Nature Deficit Disorder Comes
As A Modern Malady For Real Particularly As That Applies to Our Human Nature of Being
More Fully Embodied Regulating Emotions and Integrating Senses Generating our Own Joy Within;

Oh How We Become
Victims of Our Own
Oppression Transforming
Into the 'Porn oF ALL' The Tools We
Use That Sadly Have Become The Restricted Reality We Breathe...

Yes, When it Comes to Sexuality, Objectifying ,And Oppressing Women
We've Got New Systematic Issues of Actually Systemizing Reality and Our

Own Human

Nature Out of
The Business
of Even Being
Flesh And Blood
Fully Embodied Where
'Someone Comes A Knocking'

Wanting to Come Back Home Within...

Ask Yourself Who That Someone Is; Hint: You, whoever you may be Now...

At the End of 19 Years of School, 3 Degrees at the Top of my Class in Part
in Tandem With 33 Years of Work For Pay What i Found Is i Was Mostly Ignorant

In the Most Important

of Human Intelligences

Innate, Instinctual, Intuitive Humanity;

Obvious being on the Autism Spectrum
Made me a Canary in the Coal Mine that Way;

Yet It's True, it Surely is Not Just Limited to the
Autism Spectrum Now; As Honestly As Far as the
Stereotypes Go Now i'm the least Autistic Person i Know in the

'Real World' Except For Very Long Monologues Regarding my
Special Interests:
Being Human;

More Particularly,
Dancing Singing
Free IN JoY of Being i Am..:)



_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick